I read this also on Gakkaionline :[www.gakkaionline.net]

2. A destructive cult tends to have an ethical double standard. Members are urged to be obedient to the cult, to carefully follow cult rules. They are also encouraged to be revealing and open in the group, confessing all to the leaders. On the other hand, outside the group they are encouraged to act unethically, manipulating outsiders or nonmembers, and either deceiving them or simply revealing very little about themselves or the group. In contrast to destructive cults, honorable groups teach members to abide by one set of ethics and act ethically and truthfully to all people in all situations.

Response: Again, this "Warning Sign" does not apply at all to SGI. The goal of practice in SGI is self-reformation -- to become a better person. Certainly, there is no double standard in effect. One ex-SGI member had to admit: "Honestly, SGI does not get involved in the personal lives of its members …"

WHAAT? That's ALL they do. They tell you to do "human revolution" or reform yourself according to their standards of what a person should be like. "Reform" yourself means do the things in the org that are distasteful to you in order to accomplish "human revolution". Many Many times I was told by seniors that dealing with unpleasant leaders/members was my "human revolution" even if it meant subordinating my better judgments to fit in.

Guidance was constantly being given about my family or "mission" as a wife, woman, mother, daughter, etc. How is that not being involved with the lives of its members? Ikea gives some stunningly useless and fluffy guidance about motherhood and wifeliness. If the leadership did not know about your personal life, it was considered lazy and ineffective. They were told to know EVERYTHING in order to "ENCOURAGE" the leaders and members.

And finally, this info used to dispel myths about the cult status of the SGI (which is actually really funny, cause all the points are valid in terms of the SGI):

II. Information Control

1. Use of deception

a. Deliberately holding back information
b. Distorting information to make it acceptable
c. Outright lying

2. Access to non-cult sources of information minimized or discouraged

a. Books, articles, newspapers, magazines, TV, radio
b. Critical information
c. Former members
d. Keep members so busy they don’t have time to think

3. Compartmentalization of information; Outsider vs. Insider doctrines

a. Information is not freely accessible
b. Information varies at different levels and missions within pyramid
c. Leadership decides who "needs to know" what

4. Spying on other members is encouraged

a. Pairing up with "buddy" system to monitor and control
b. Reporting deviant thoughts, feelings, and actions to leadership

5. Extensive use of cult generated information and propaganda

a. Newsletters, magazines, journals, audio tapes, videotapes, etc.
b. Misquotations, statements taken out of context from non-cult sources

6. Unethical use of confession

a. Information about "sins" used to abolish identity boundaries
b. Past "sins" used to manipulate and control; no forgiveness or absolution

III. Thought Control

1. Need to internalize the group’s doctrine as "Truth"

a. Map = Reality
b. Black and White thinking
c. Good vs. evil
d. Us vs. them (inside vs. outside)

2. Adopt "loaded" language (characterized by "thought-terminating clichés"). Words are the tools we use to think with. These "special" words constrict rather than expand understanding. They function to reduce complexities of experience into trite, platitudinous "buzz words".

3. Only "good" and "proper" thoughts are encouraged.

4. Thought-stopping techniques (to shut down "reality testing" by stopping "negative" thoughts and allowing only "good" thoughts); rejection of rational analysis, critical thinking, constructive criticism.

a. Denial, rationalization, justification, wishful thinking
b. Chanting
c. Meditating
d. Praying
e. Speaking in "tongues"
f. Singing or humming

5. No critical questions about leader, doctrine, or policy seen as legitimate

6. No alternative belief systems viewed as legitimate, good, or useful
IV. Emotional Control

1. Manipulate and narrow the range of a person’s feelings.

2. Make the person feel like if there are ever any problems it is always their fault, never the leader’s or the group’s.

3. Excessive use of guilt

a. Identity guilt

1. Who you are (not living up to your potential)
2. Your family
3. Your past
4. Your affiliations
5. Your thoughts, feelings, actions

b. Social guilt
c. Historical guilt

4. Excessive use of fear

a. Fear of thinking independently
b. Fear of the "outside" world
c. Fear of enemies
d. Fear of losing one’s "salvation"
e. Fear of leaving the group or being shunned by group
f. Fear of disapproval



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2009 07:55AM by sushigrl.

How nice to find some relevant back up material for this thread right on Gakkaionline.net!! By the way, does anyone think that chanting daimoku (Nam Myoho Renge Kyo) gives one a "high" life- condition? This is an important premise in the SGI and is what sets it apart from any other religion or group that I know of. I chanted many millions of daimoku in my stay there, all in the spirit of improving my life and following Sensei (that sounds like a breath freshener now that I think about it).

I can't really say in hindsight that my life condition improved at all. In fact, it deteriorated with time as I realized that all my efforts were falling flat and that chanting to improved myself or to convert someone else "for their happiness" was the source of self criticism and defeat. How can one be victorious when we were so encourage to self reflect for every single thing that happened? How does this help a person who is already self critical.

Some of my leaders said "don't beat yourself up" and then would proceed to scold and chide me to be a better whatever.

Hmph



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2009 08:38AM by sushigrl.

"Cult? Who, us? We're not a cult!"

From the "Eckhardt Tolle and Byron Katie -- Legit?" thread, "Cults, Sects and New Religious Movements Forum," www.culteducation.com, by Corboy.

---------------------Beginning of Quote----------------------------------------------------------------------

Co-opting the term cult and then de-activating it...or the domesticization of skepticism.

Quote:
They add the cult word, and then use it like mental judo to lure in doubters and handle objections.

* Jokes. Make jokes about it, turn it into a silly joke and by extension make the person who brought the word up, seem foolish

*Distraction. Dump on other gurus who have been abusive, but use this to deflect attention away from your group.

* Minimize by saying all of society is cultic or claim (this is favorite) that the Armed Forces and Marines are cults. (This ignores that you KNOW, beforehand that you are enlisting in the service. And, though far, far from perfect and desperately in need of reform, the Armed Forces have something cults do not...a system of health care for injured veterans. Cults are use and dispose organizations and dont have their equivalent of the Veterans Administration or Congressional oversight. Reporters publish coverage of troubles at the VA without fear of being sued--another difference.

*Claim the existence of the 'anti cult cult'.

Make it seem that Rick Ross and those of us on the message board are the anti-cult cult. Complain that we are reactive and hate free speech on this message board when what has actually gone on is a near constant bombardment from trolls who have done more to harass discussions of BK than any other group.

Many of these groups have become so practiced that all they have had to do is say, 'Oh thats just the Rick Ross site' and it steers people away.

This is the cleverest mental judo of all.

To me the gold standard on how to test whether a group or relationship is nasty or nice is this:

Is your loyalty reciprocated throughout your involvement? Or are people kicked out when too old, too poor, and too stressed out to be of any further use? [or they just ask too many questions?]

Is there a double standard for compassion--endless compassion for the leader, and endless blame for the underling?

Is there any deceit about the history of the leader, the group, and what is to be done to you during its events?

Do they minimize power imbalance by claiming their are no victims?
--------------------------End of Quote------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've heard SGI leaders say, "Oh, SGI couldn't possibly be a cult -- we're not like the Moonies, where they choose your husband or wife for you! Why, in SGI you can marry anyone you want. In a cult, you have to live there, and do whatever work they tell you to. In SGI you can live in your own place and choose your own career. So SGI couldn't possibly be a cult!"

That's a bit like saying "So what if your husband slaps you? It's not like he's throwing you down the stairs and breaking your arm." Well, slapping someone is still wrong -- and the things SGI does to its members are still wrong. And SGI will never address that.

Instead, they'll set up some exaggerated image of what a "cult" is -- the most extreme, and then tell you all the ways that SGI is NOT like this.

I don't think that my former leaders know about Rick Ross -- but they did warn us against "stupid anti-SGI websites." They didn't bother responding to any issue or question that the websites raised -- just dismissed them, as they dismiss any newspaper or magazine articles that criticize SGI. If they criticize SGI, they're either just cheap, sensationalistic tabloids lying to get readers, or they've been infiltrated by Nichiren Shoshu.

I've also heard SGI leaders laugh and say, "Cult? What paranoia!? People just say "cult" when it's a religion that they don't agree with! You could say that the Presbyterians are a cult! You could say yoga is a cult!"

But the issue is not about what some other group is doing or not doing -- the question is what SGI is doing. But see how fast and automatically SGI deflects any questions or criticism about SGI.

Beginning of Quote----www.gakkaionline.net: "The "C" Word-------------------------------------------

1. A destructive cult tends to be totalitarian in its control of its members' behavior. Cults are likely to dictate in great detail not only what members believe, but also what members wear and eat, when and where members work, sleep, and bathe, and how members think, speak, and conduct familial, marital, or sexual relationships.

Response: This "Warning Sign" does not apply at all to SGI. SGI members are actually encouraged to develop and grow and blossom in their own individual ways.

2. A destructive cult tends to have an ethical double standard. Members are urged to be obedient to the cult, to carefully follow cult rules. They are also encouraged to be revealing and open in the group, confessing all to the leaders. On the other hand, outside the group they are encouraged to act unethically, manipulating outsiders or nonmembers, and either deceiving them or simply revealing very little about themselves or the group.

In contrast to destructive cults, honorable groups teach members to abide by one set of ethics and act ethically and truthfully to all people in all situations.

Response: Again, this "Warning Sign" does not apply at all to SGI. The goal of practice in SGI is self-reformation -- to become a better person. Certainly, there is no double standard in effect. One ex-SGI member had to admit: "Honestly, SGI does not get involved in the personal lives of its members …"

3. A destructive cult has only two basic purposes: recruiting new members and fund-raising. Altruistic movements, established religions, and other honorable groups also recruit and raise funds. However, these actions are incidental to an honorable group's main purpose of improving the lives of its members and of humankind in general. Destructive cults may claim to make social contributions, but in actuality such claims are superficial and only serve as gestures or fronts for recruiting and fund-raising. A cult's real goal is to increase the prestige and often the wealth of the leader.
Response: This does not apply to SGI, an organization with the goal of world peace. To that end, SGI has labored at length, promoting dialogue around the world and in our communities.

4. A destructive cult appears to be innovative and exclusive. The leader claims to be breaking with tradition, offering something novel, and instituting the ONLY viable system for change that will solve life's problems or the world's ills. But these claims are empty and only used to recruit members who are then surreptitiously subjected to mind control to inhibit their ability to examine the actual validity of the claims of the leader and the cult.

Response: What is it that is being offered in SGI? It is a Buddhist practice that is carried out by the INDIVIDUAL, not controlled by the group. Whatever results one has are based SOLELY on one's individual practice not on any validation by the group of believers. From the SGI-USA website: "The Soka Gakkai International (SGI) was formed to support practitioners of Nichiren Daishonin’s Buddhism and help them teach others about it on a global scale."

And are the claims of SGI empty claims? Ask an SGI member. If they were not getting something out of the Buddhist practice on a regular basis, why would they continue practicing?

I am also mystified by the idea of SGI using mind control. Nothing could be further from the truth, in my opinion. Practicing Buddhism with SGI enables one to fully realize one's own mind in front of the Gohonzon. The Buddhist principle of O bai to ri explains that each person is different and that those differences are precious.

5. A destructive cult is authoritarian in its power structure. The leader is regarded as the supreme authority. He or she may delegate certain power to a few subordinates for the purpose of seeing that members adhere to the leader's wishes. There is no appeal outside his or her system to a greater system of justice. For example, if a schoolteacher feels unjustly treated by a principal, an appeal can be made to the superintendent. In a destructive cult, the leader claims to have the only and final ruling on all matters.

Response: There is no such concentration of authority in SGI. Each local area has its own local coordinators who merely convey information about meetings and various activities. There is no one in place to judge what a believer thinks or does.

6. A destructive cult's leader is a self-appointed messianic person claiming to have a special mission in life. For example, leaders of flying saucer cults claim that beings from outer space have commissioned them to lead people away from Earth, so that only the leaders can save them from impending doom.

Response: In SGI, leaders are simply people who corrdinate activities. They are no more enlightened or "worthy" than even the newest practitioner.

7. A destructive cult's leader centers the veneration of members upon himself or herself. Priests, rabbis, ministers, democratic leaders, and other leaders of genuinely altruistic movements focus the veneration of adherents on God or a set of ethical principles. Cult leaders, in contrast, keep the focus of love, devotion, and allegiance on themselves.

Response: The focus in SGI is on one's individual practice. To that end, we chant, study and encourage each other. There is no hierarchy -- everyone is equal. In fact, basing one's practice on another person can be extremely dangerous. From the Seikyo Times:

"it should be pointed out that the 'Law,' not the 'person,' is to be regarded as the proper standard in all things. Putting the person first gives you an uncertain standard; it is to let that person’s mind become your master. At some point, relations based on such a standard will become like those existing between a paternal, godfather-like figure and those bound to him by personal loyalty."


8. A destructive cult's leader tends to be determined, domineering, and charismatic. Such a leader effectively persuades followers to abandon or alter their families, friends, and careers to follow the cult. The leader then takes control over followers' possessions, money, time, and lives.

Response: The opposite is true in SGI. Believers are encouraged to maintain and strengthen their ties with the community, on the job, and in the family.
----------------------------End of Quote------------------------------------------------------------------

1. SGI is using the trick of comparing itself to the most extreme cults -- that's a bit like saying, in response to criticism: "Well, I'm a good person -- I'm not a serial killer or anything!" All or nothing thinking! There's a lot of room between being perfect -- and being a serial killer. Great, SGI may not be Jim Jones in Guyana -- does that mean SGI has no faults that it needs to correct?

2. As for the double ethical standard -- honestly means tell all in the group, but don't tell all to outsiders -- come on! Leaders encourage you to go for guidance, confiding all of your problems and weaknesses to leaders, which they then use against you.

I remember, as a member, being urged to act happy and enthusiastic when guests were at a meeting. When guests were at a meeting, the leaders did not speak about contributing money to SGI. Oh, SGI tried very hard to show guests what they thought the guest wanted to see. Prospective members are also told that they can believe in Jesus Christ, Allah, or whatever they want, so long as they chant. Then there is the question of SGI's wealth, real estate holdings and lack of financial disclosure -- and all these groups that are part of SGI but deny that they are. How does SGI NOT have an ethical double standard, when they hide so much from members and everyone else?

3. A cult's real goals are fundraising, recruiting new members, and increasing the wealth and prestige of the leader? But this is TRUE of SGI. They do some token charity, and Ikeda writes his useless peace proposals -- but seriously, WHAT has SGI really done to help the less-fortunate or to actually create peace?

4. What, SGI DOESN'T use empty promises to recruit members -- and DOESN'T use manipulation and mind-control on them? The chanting? The loaded language? The black and white thinking, the 'ad hominem' attacks on critics? The insistence that something is wrong with you if you disagree with anything in SGI? The peer pressure? The love bombing? The adrenaline rush? The songs? NOT elements of mind control? Experts in the field, like Dr. Richard Sutphen, would disagree.

5. SGI is NOT authoritarian? Then why CAN'T members help choose leaders, have a say in making SGI policy, have a grievance procedure, and have full financial disclosure?

6. Well, gee, President Ikeda is not telling members that they're all going to be beamed up into flying saucers to spread Nichiren's Buddhism through the universe. Well, how could SGI possibly be a cult, then? This is a straw man argument, as well as misdirection -- picking the silliest, most bizarre example and saying, "See? We're not like this."

Ikeda is NOT a messianic, self-appointed figure? Then why do SGI leaders tell members that they won't attain enlightenment unless they accept him as their mobster....um, mentor? And really -- president? Presidents are elected; nobody elected him. If that article on culthelp.info is accurate -- even President Toda did not choose Ikeda as a successor -- Ikeda grabbed the presidency himself.

7. Cult leaders keep all the love, devotion and allegiance on themselves? Again -- this IS what Ikeda is doing, with all this focus on mentor/disciple! Sure, SGI may pay lip service to the teaching "Follow the law and not the person..." but that message is drowned out by all this mentor/disciple rhetoric!

8. A cult leader is determined, domineering and charismatic? And Ikeda is not? "A cult leader effectively persuades followers to abandon or alter family, friends and careers," and "takes over followers' possessions, money, time and lives." Again -- like SGI doesn't? True, SGI doesn't have its members quitting their jobs, leaving friends, spouses and children behind to go live in some isolated ashram or commune. But members have still been pressured to make financial donations that they can't afford. Members get pressured to spend all their time chanting and doing SGI activities -- to the detriment of marriages, kids, jobs, schooling, and hobbies.

And really, how would it benefit SGI to drag its members off to some isolated commune? If members have decent jobs, they have more money to contribute. If you were off in some isolated SGI ashram -- how would you shakabuku your nonSGI friends and family? If you stay in the community, you've just got so much more access to nonSGI'ers -- ie potential recruits.

Honestly, SGI DOES do all eight of these things that Jim Celer and Kathy Ruby say are signs of a cult. According to their list, SGI fits the definition of a cult!

Tsukimoto . . . .you forgot one thing about point #8: FNCC. It may not be Jonestown or some ashram, and sure you only stay there for 3 days, but it gets the job done.


Oh, and before Monday comes around, I'd like to share a clip with you all:

[www.veoh.com]


Just trrrryyy not to eat or drink anything in front of your PC. And make sure you have good padding around your chair so you won't hurt yourself when you fall on the floor rolling with laughter.

And besides, according to Jim Celer, if you're a cult member, it's just because you want to be. Just go into the bathroom already!

----------Beginning of Quote, gakkaionline.net-------------------------------------------------------

by Jim Celer

It was late, and I was tired and trying to get the 2-year-old to bed. In my arms, he rubbed his eyes, pointed to the altar and said “There!” Never one to pass a chance to be amazed at my child’s Buddhist precociousness, I decided to put off bedtime for a few minutes to see what he might be channeling. He pulled out the chair and said “Sit daddy.” Then he ran off. I turned to see him standing at the bathroom door, and when I started to move he held up his hand and said “Pwease no — stay there daddy.” Then he ran into the bathroom and closed the door.

So I faced the Gohonzon and told myself I’d chant that he didn’t hurt himself or break anything in there.

I got out “Nam myo” before it hit me: I’m the Dad, and if I want to protect him, I can just go into the bathroom — whether he says “pwease no” or not.

The moral of the story: We can all become glassy eyed cult zombies if we want to be.
--------------------------End of Quote--------------------------------------------------------------------------

What is up with that [www.gakkaionline.net] website by Terry Ruby and Kathy Ruby.
Is it supposed to be a satire, or is she serious?

For example, the financial "disclosure" page has to be satire, as it doesn't disclose ANYTHING! There is nothing financial disclosed there! Not one single financial disclosure is on that page. [www.gakkaionline.net]
Hey Kathy Ruby, where are the HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS AND BILLIONS of dollars collected by the Soka Gakkai International-USA nonprofit religious corporation?
Where is all that money? Lets see the audited statements.
That money has been disappeared into SGI somewhere. Where's the money?

There is 100x times the financial disclosure in this thread, why didn't she post the Soka U 990 form? (the Soka U link is literally BLANK) [www.gakkaionline.net]
(obviously SGI-USA didn't like that page and had it removed).

So either that is satire, or Kathy Ruby doesn't know what the heck she is doing over there. That is either good satire, or terribly lame SGI manipulation attempts.

But regardless, this website is another front of a website for SGI, done by an alleged "independent" person.
Very similar to the other SGI propaganda site by Jim Celer.

Look at the front-page, [www.gakkaionline.net] where they link to a dozen SGI propaganda websites. Notice they also have the disclaimer saying SGI is not approved or responsible for the websites.
That is more deliberate manipulation and blatant lies. Of course SGI approves of it, as if they did not they would have it removed with their threats. But SGI knows that a bunch of "independent" promoters of SGI, looks better than SGI only blowing their own horn.

The only thing missing, is a website that appears to be critical of SGI a bit, but is really SGI promoting.


As far as the CULT concept.
But what cult apologists do, is they take on the word CULT, and then either redefine it out of existence, or make a Straw-Man argument.
For example, its a Straw-Man argument to say that cults completely control what their people... "wear and eat, when and where members work, sleep, and bathe, and how members think, speak, and conduct familial, marital, or sexual relationships".

That is a gross distortion, perhaps out of ignorance, or a deliberate lie.
Modern "cults" are much more subtle and control and manage only what they need to manage. They don't control what you wear or bathe, that is nonsense.
SGI tells people that, so people think SGI is not a cult by those criteria.

Modern cults use voluntary complex persuasion to get people to do what they want them to do. For the more modern criteria, SGI is certainly a cult.
SGI is about moneymaking and recruiting. All of the "peace" stuff is a fig-leaf they hide behind. If anything SGI is very warlike in their attacks on their enemies.

So SGI strikes again. Right there is a network of dozens of SGI approved websites, who promote the SGI agenda, and pretend it has nothing to do with SGI. DECEPTION. Of course, those people PAY for the websites and do it for no pay from SGI. That is because SGI is a modern cult, and gets people to pay out of their own pocket to advertise for SGI.

Anyone can tell that the [www.gakkaionline.net] GakkaiOnline.Net: A constellation of SGI websites by Terry Ruby and Kathy Ruby, is a shill for SGI.
Why don't they have the 990 Form for Soka University posted?
Why are they targeting children?
Why is the website full of promotion of SGI, with no critical links whatsoever?

SGI is a modern cult. No they don't shave their heads and play bongo drums and wear orange sheets. That is what SGI wants people to think of as a "cult".
As a matter of fact, SGI is the ideal example of a modern cult, and all the tactics used by the modern cults.
Kathy Ruby, Jim Celer, and a whole lot of other SGI true believers have been assigned to cyberspace to spread the SGI propaganda on the internet, and make it look independent.
Its simply more promotion for the global cult SGI. Its a gigantic global cult.
SGI appears to be the richest cult in the world.

Quote
tsukimoto
Honestly, SGI DOES do all eight of these things that Jim Celer and Kathy Ruby say are signs of a cult. According to their list, SGI fits the definition of a cult!

It would take more research, but it seems that Jim Celer knows the type of manipulation he is doing, while Kathy Ruby is much more amateur, perhaps just copying others?

But many many cults all take the cult definitions, and then try to twist them around, to mess with the minds of their members. How many people in a cult think they are in a cult? Very few. Some redefine cult to be a positive thing to them.
Its usually when you get out of a cult, that's when you realize you were in a cult!

But its true, the very cult criteria posted by Jim Celer and Kathy Ruby actually proves that SGI is a cult.

But what most important is how does SGI exploit its own members?
How are they exploited financially, in cleaning out their bank accounts, free labor, wrecked families, and the rest of it.
The outrageous lies constantly told by SGI make it a destructive group, call it anything, a sect, a cultish group, a cult, a moneymaking machine for Ikeda. Its only a label.
What matters are the FACTS about SGI, and those websites avoid the facts.

SGI is a highly sophisticated global cult, no question. That is just reality.

OMG Dr Jesus that's HYSTERICAL!!! especially the part where sandinyoureyesei says "mahalo you fools mahalo!!" GAWWWDDD. Thanks for finding that one. He looks worse in his demeaner every time I see him. He sounded like Ed McMahon.."you are right sir!" Johnny Carson's sidekick. Quite unenlightened of me, neh...

[www.veoh.com]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2009 10:59AM by sushigrl.