Wayfarerfree: Wow!! I forgot that Soka Gakkai was started BEFORE Makiguchi and Toda converted to Nichiren Buddhism. WOW!!!! So Ikeda wasn't kidding when he said that Soka Gakkai had to have a "good" religious product in order to grow. NMRK was the product to grow the "society". Corporate hierarchy. It says it all. Marches to bind one to the institutional memory. Soka Gakkai training takes place in the academic structure. SCARY!!

Ikeda is obsessed with academic legitimacy. (Nah, he just buys doctorates as a hobby). Soka Gakkai is now made up of third and fourth generation membership unmotivated by the original message of chant and get what you want...because the children of the "pioneer members" did not experience the same hardship, and don't see a real need to buy into the crap. Heh, maybe SGI is losing its grip. But, it certainly is using this recession to ratchet up the shakubuku.

I wonder how many "fortune babies" actually do gongyo and daimoku anymore. It was a challenge to the ones I know. Their moms usually took care of the family quota for gongyo and chanting.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2009 11:36AM by sushigrl.

Chris Holte has written some interesting stuff : [webspace.webring.com]

excerpt: He (Ikeda) doesn't seem believe in the kind of "democracy" that the west practices. His essays are replete with references to Napoleon, to his friends in China, expecially with the wife of the leader Chao En lai, Madame Deng. For him what counted was carrying on the "spirit of his master" and leading his troops. For him Buddhist Democracy was the leadership of the "capable few" organized around the "Kechimyaku of Faith," with everyone supporting that leadership in a spirit of "wagoso." Leaders should listen to members, but there was no call for them to necesarily obey their concerns or consult with them. The organization was on the model of most Japanese organizations and top down, military style. His disciple Mr. Williams would try to apply that model to his organization in the USA, NSA with mixed results. A few holdovers from the day's of Josei Toda, supported him such as President Hojo, but for the most part all potential rivals were edged out and a strong party centered around him was formed. From 1960 to 1979 he was President of Sokagakkai in Japan. He gradually shifted power to himself. All traces of democratic organization were written out of the bylaws of the central organization by 1963. Those who had been potential rivals to him either supported him completely or they were forced out as well.

rattyboy - I have been to many meetings where myself and others had intentions to let our leaders know we were uncomfortable with the mentor disciple issue. One meeting they didn't even try to dialogue during the Q&A segment - the leader just looked at my friend (who had by the way stated she thought the newer members were put off about Ikeda worship) and spoke in a condescending manner: "Well I'm not afraid to call Sensei my mentor. He is the only one who has captured the essence of this practice and this Buddhism. His life exempifies all of his efforts and achievements." Then there were people giving her a standing ovation. So now not only did this poor woman not have the answer she wanted, but she was made to feel ashamed and embarrassed. Nowadays I just avoid the so called open discussion/Q&A on the group level, and rather seek one to one discussion about why I don't agree with the way SGI is obssessed with Ikeda. Either way I'm always told that my perception of him is incorrect, to go and chant, that its my fundamental darkness, its the workings of the devil of the 6th heaven - in otherwords its all in my head. F___ That S___!

wayfarerfree: I tried to email the Victims of Soka Gakkai to join and I never heard back from them. Has anyone here ever had contact with them?

sushigrl - I think I've written before on this forum about fortune babies, about being told we were special. I think this was manipulastive. Some people actually thought we were special. Almost like we had a gift or had super powers. However, it alienated members who were not born into the practice. It gave some fortune babies the idea that they were special and they then became truly arrogant. I still have friends that are fortune babies. Some pratice and some don't. I chanted and did gongyo myself in order to make my parents happy. Once all of us grew up it got ugly. We now had our own independent thinking that our parents couldn't control. And we were bitter that our childhoods had been robbed from us, for the sake of what. Nothing in our minds warranted the negligence from our parents.

As for me? I didn't feel I was fortunate period. What a misnomer!

@ evergreen

As far as I know the "Victims of Soka Gakkai" was created in the aftermath of the split or rather excomunication of SGI by Nichiren Shoshu. So its related to Nichiren Soshu - I doubt it was neutral or objective.
That the site is not mainteined fits into the picture as in my opression NST tries to leave the SGI issue behind, On a religious/dogmatic level I do not agree with Nichiren Shoshu but when looking at it objectively they use the most sensible tactics as to let by gones be by gones and move ahead what they are doing. There have been reports of intimidation by SGI-YD against NST members and facilities, but NST did not report them to the police apparently. I guess they just want to left alone which makes the SGI propaganda look a bit daft anyway.

@ wayfarerfree

Again be careful with those headcounts in terms of membership. Never noticed that there is allways a flat number i.e 10.000 instead of lets say 9.642 ?
SGI NEVER publishes the amount of people that left - in any national SGI org this number will be higher.

By the way :-)

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year
Joyeux Noel et bonne année
Feliz Navidad y un Prósporo Año Nuevo
Frohe Weihnachten und ein gutes Neues Jahr
Buon Natale e Felice Anno Nuovo
Vrolijk Kerstfeest en een Gelukkig Nieuw Jaar
S prazdnikom Rozdestva Hristova i s Novim Godom
Sheng Dan Kuai Le
Shinnen omedeto
Kuwa na Christmas jema na mwaka mpya mwema

Hi Evergreen! I forgot that you were a fortune baby. It must have been difficult for you, as I have seen the pressure put on other fortune babies to practice whether or not they wanted to. Also, for some reason or other, I and other members were guilty of envy and of expecting those born into practice to know everything and be everything they were "supposed" to be. Not good. I hope you can take that as a general apology. I know many children who were neglected because their parents insisted on doing activities 24/7. Or because the leaders expected that. What a horror!!! I hope this wasn't the case for you. When my kids were born, I drew the line, and the leaders didn't like it. :)

Oh and btw, Hi Rothaus!! Happy Holly Days to you too!!! happy new year to everyone here!!!

One thing about the Wizard of Oz and Ikeda, the Wiz was an old guy who was deceiving the public with illusions, which is like Ikeda.
But the Wiz was a kindly old fellow, and Ikeda certainly is not that.

As shown by much written proof, Ikeda definately has even fascist tendencies in how he detests democracy, and admires the top-down military hierarchy power structure, applied to civilians. In Japan, people do seem to fear the SGI, and with good reason.


Also, the Wizard of Oz didn't take people who were desperate and severely depressed, and then persuade them to literally empty out their emergency savings and transfer it to the SGI accounts on a Sunday afternoon on a desperate impulse.

That persuasion story by SGI, of getting desperate people to transfer their emergency savings to SGI on a desperate impulse, is the lowest of the low.
That is like the TV evangelist taking advantage of a lonely senior, and robbing them blind.

Ikeda the multi-billionaire, using persuasion techniques to rob desperate people of their last emergency saving. That is SGI and Ikeda.
Its not enough to take your disposable income, or your savings.
Ikeda and SGI want your emergency savings, they want to drain your last dollar.

A former SGI leader called Ikeda a money-sucking vampire, and that is very accurate.

Don't know the Four 'No Bull' Truths? Aren't they something like this:
1. SGI reigns Supreme.
2. Ikeda, or corporate entity thereof, reigns supreme over SGI.
3. Ikeda is your Mentor in Life.
4. The mentor/Disciple relationship is to be your primary goal in life.

I was reading an article in Outside Magazine about the author's belief that humanitarian groups could benefit by applying the persuasive techniques of Madison Ave. (Even refering to it as 'the dark side' or something to that effect). If SGI admitted to using expert selling and persuasion techniques for the 'greater good', to what extent if any would members of this forum feel....mmmm....better?