You nailed it...
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: March 07, 2014 11:22PM

A meditation.

Women's emotions are automatically discredited.

And a betrayed woman often lacks comfort and support from other women -- too often because they have been betrayed and dont want to be reminded, or because they fear they will someday be betrayed.

Forty plus years ago, my Roman Catholic aunt was divorced by her shiftless husband. He initiated the divorce, she did not.

This was during the time when divorce was rare among Roman Catholics. My aunt was shunned by the other women at her parish. She was a haunting reminder of how vulnerable they were in case their husbands decided to stray.

And if a woman is strong enough to stand her ground, keeps her dignity doesnt become intimidated by being called a whinger, she's vilified as being
cold, and lacking compassion. She is called the B word.

There were complaints about Queen Elizabeth I while she was still alive and she coped with multiple plots against her life, and two serious rebellions. Only after she was dead and people disapproved of the Stuarts was Elizabeth valorized--in retrospect.

There is no term in anglophone culture for a female who is an asshole in the
good sense - someone who is strong, grounded, points out injustice, whether done to herself or to others, and who isnt afraid to strike fear
into bullies.

In english speaking cultures, asshole/arsehole is an interesting term.

It refers to someone who has power.

So...note that the A word is applied to men, never to women.

Because it has been so rare for women to have power and be respected that we have few terms in the langer to refer to a woman who has power.

And..we have no word for a woman who not only has power but uses power well.

Back to the word asshole.

Most often at least in the US, we apply the A word to someone who uses power badly.

But in some contexts, being called an asshole is a compliment, because it can refer to a person who uses power benevolently and doesnt mind if others resent this.

There is a dishonerable way to be an asshole. And there is an honorable way to be an asshole.

Dishonorable assholes make others miserable and prey on vulnerable persons. Dishonorable assholes behave horribly at the pub.

The honorable asshole is the pub owner or bouncer who kicks the dishonorable asshole out of the pub, and when needed, calls the police.

Honorable assholes set limits, enforce limits, protect the vulnerable and dont care if they are resented.

A security guard told me "In this job, I am the asshole. I am the one who says no and sets limits." And he was not ashamed.

Some bullies will claim asshole as a badge of honor. You can call them the A word and they take it as a compliment.

And if a betrayed woman shows anger, she's called the B word, or if she stands her ground, is accused of being crazy.

She isnt (interestingly) called an asshole.

If a betrayed woman cries or feels aching sadness, she is accused of wallowing in victim mentality and told to 'get over it.'

If a male sets people on edge/winds people up, he's called an asshole, but yes, there's a subtle macho pay off in being an asshole. Some creeps will brag, 'Yeah, I am asshole'.

But a woman whose emotions make others uncomfortable will be called self indulgent (stop whinging, stop wallowing) or she's accused of being a B or being crazy.

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: meh ()
Date: March 08, 2014 07:31AM

Kindles and bullies and assholes, oh my!

I have to admit, I love my kindle; I've sometimes had problems with a book not being available on it, but that's when I go to paper. I've never had any problem with losing content, either. And when I move in a couple of months, my moving crew (my son, grand-daughter and her fiancé) will appreciate it too. Rather than having to physically move 150+ books in boxes, I can just stick the doo-dad in my purse.

"Asshole" is an interesting thing to call someone - one of the most functional parts of the body, I'd say.

As you suggest, corboy, someone being betrayed reminds everyone of their own vulnerability. They turn away because they don't want to face the fact that someone they have placed a great deal of trust in could be a liar - I think that's a very fundamental fear. They insist that the betrayee "should have known," because they like to think that they would spot that deception in a tick. Bad liars are the ones that get caught quickly; the skilled ones usually don't unless a mistake happens.

Women can't win - if we're strong, we're unfeminine and unfeeling, and if we display our emotions we're weak and should stop inflicting our hurt feelings on others. Years ago, I had a female manager who told me that the day she overheard someone call her a bitch, she realized that she was a good manager.

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The B word
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: March 08, 2014 08:15AM

Meh wrote:

""Years ago, I had a female manager who told me that the day she overheard someone call her a bitch, she realized that she was a good manager

Years ago, I read something written on Craigslist by a man telling how his wife had changed after they had two small children.

This unusually perceptive man wrote that there were times when his wife
**had** to behave like a bitch, because there were situations where the
kids were so self centered that normal methods of parental persuasion
did not get through to them.

There were rare but drastic situations where his wife had to activate
the Bitch Force for the kids to catch on that it was time to cut the crap
and pay attention to Mom, not tune her out.

This sounds similar to your friend recognizing that she'd tapped into full
leadership mode when others were calling her a B.

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The A word
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: March 08, 2014 08:18AM

An asshole gets rid of the shit.

A badly behaved asshole inflicts shit in the wrong location.

A good asshole dumps the shit in the right place -- such as kicking the bully
out of the pub!

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: meh ()
Date: March 08, 2014 08:02PM

Viva los culeros (assholes in Spanish)!

One of the women I practiced with in Las Cruces was a teacher in El Paso, and she used to love to tell a story about one of her fellow-teachers. He was really interested in Native American culture and went on and on about it in his classes - keep in mind that this was a primarily Hispanic audience of high-school students he was addressing, and they thought he was pretty dorky. He was so pleased when he told my friend that they'd given him an honorary Indian name - Cool Arrow. Culero.

I guess you had to be there . . .

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Date: March 09, 2014 12:13PM

heh heh heh Lost in translation...yet again.

"I think that's a very fundamental fear. They insist that the betrayee "should have known," because they like to think that they would spot that deception in a tick. Bad liars are the ones that get caught quickly; the skilled ones usually don't unless a mistake happens."

This ^ caught my eye, because it goes deeper than that. People will often describe a person who does bad things as a "monster" or even a "demon" or a "devil". Just invoke Hitler in a conversation, and watch what happens!

What I have figured out is that people attempt to dehumanize the horrible, and it's a way of protecting themselves - since the horrible is now "not-human", THEY would recognize it for what it is and rush away! But the cold, hard fact is that all those good Germans, people who only wanted to live their lives in peace with a chance at prosperity, colluded with Hitler in committing atrocities.

See, the reality is that evil is hopelessly banal. It *never* looks alarming. Look at all those interviews with a serial killer's neighbors; almost invariably, they report, "He was such a nice young man" "He was quiet; you'd never look twice at him", and "He was a good neighbor - always said 'Hi' to you in the hallway but never made a pest of himself." These psychopaths obviously understood the wisdom of "Don't s**t where you live."

We delude ourselves into believing that WE would recognize these "monsters/demons/devils" and, thus, we reassure ourselves that we are safe from being victimized by them. No situation could possibly be more dangerous.

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: Spartacus ()
Date: March 09, 2014 07:26PM

Quote st&P:
We delude ourselves into believing that WE would recognize these "monsters/demons/devils" and, thus, we reassure ourselves that we are safe from being victimized by them. No situation could possibly be more dangerous.

You really hit a home run right out of the ball park with your insightful statement. It just as easily applies to the state of our country as it does to cult/abuse victims (all are one and the same, neh?). You have perfectly described why the zombie-fied mind controlled sheeple (a clear majority) continue to fail to react to the swamped ship sinking beneath us, or to recognize the truly monstrous dangers that are circling us in anticipation of the impending feast that will commence once our lifeboat unceremoniously sinks into oblivion.

Just keep mindlessly fixated on the electronic media folks, and obey the orders you given by the authorities who know better than you do, and keep pretending that our corrupted slave master politicians are only working for the benefit of the people. . Don't worry, the Titanic is unsinkable. Everybody say so. Yes, our "exceptional" ship is too big too fail. Send the lifeboats away empty - we don't need 'em - never have, never will. We all feel safe from harm - don't you? Bad stuff can't happen to us - were safe ! Besides, didn't the nice man on the TV news say...

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2014 07:48PM by Spartacus.

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Thats it..
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: March 09, 2014 08:43PM

That assumption that we, yes we should and would be able to recognize a
liar or user...or cult recruiter.

Perhaps many people hear about cheaters, love pirates, straying partners or spouses, and yes, cult recruitment/lovebombing and form cartoonish images
in their imaginations.

We imagine that a cheater would look like a gargoyle. Someone with a perpetual smirk.

That love pirate types would be cartoonishly easy to spot (think of the stereotypes from the 1970s -- the guy with the gold chain, shirt open, and the
line, "Come here often?"

I'd read about cult love bombing and imagine a horde of zombies with blank eyes
all running up, squealing "I love you, I love you...!"

And unconsciously think to myself, That looks obvious. I'd spot it in a second.

No. It isnt like this at all.

I read bits of a book at a store the other day.

Secrets and Lies: Surviving the Truths That Change Our Lives: Jane ...Jane Isay is a gifted story teller with the soul of a poet and the wisdom of a master
teacher. Secrets and Lies is not only about betrayal, it is about courage, the ... - 308k - Cached - Similar pages

Isay states that trust actually brings blind spots. Once we trust someone, that gives a context in which we arrange our perceptions and skew them in a particular way - benefit of the doubt.

Think how we react differently when someone we love is ill with a stomach virus and throws up. We may feel disgusted but we clean up after them.

Very different if a drunken party guest were to do the same thing and in the same place in our house.

And, humans adjust. We may rationalize bad behavior as a foible. And..exploitative types will often con us to distrust our own perceptions.

(That could be a tip off. If some constantly finds ways to get you to distrust your own perceptions, that alone can signal something is rotten in Denmark.)

And what most of us cannot understand is that cult recruiters have practice at this sort of thing.

Or they may be low level members of the group, feeling the early happy high. And have zero knowledge of the actual history and patterns of abuse and exploitation in the group.

So persons in that early glow of belonging, who are lower level and not privy to freaky secrets can be the best recruiters--they are sincere.

And they may be our dearest and best loved friends.

We see a friend doing well and glowing. We are happy for the person.

That friend may describe how her therapist handled a recent session and you
may realize you wish your therapist were that good--and then ask your friend for a referral.

And the therapist turns out to be a high level functionary in a cult.

One would have to be utterly paranoid to have suspicions.

As Bugs Bunny put it, 'Ya gotta trust someone.'

And the general population cant see that some persons are willing to put a lot of work into maintaining facades.

We think this stuff happens only in espionage, organized crime, horror movies, crime novels.


We are fascinated by those stories because they describe the betrayals and facades that do exist in real, human life.

We cant stand to face this consciously.

So we segregate this subject into a specific entertainment genres, where we think we can contemplate it at a safe distance, thinking it will never be done to us and that we would be smart enough to recognize it.

Am going to tell you something.

I grew up in a family that lied a lot. Learned about it byaccident. Had 7 months
of insomnia that nearly drove me mad. Had to get medical assistance so I could sleep.

Made contact with the son of my mother's best friend who had kept our family lie going and had thrown me off the track with disinformation. Turned out her life and family were full of lies.

I said to her son, "With all the lying that went on in our families, its a miracle neither of us ended up in organized crime."


"Gotta tell you something. Forty years ago I was in organized crime. I was a drugs dealer."

I paused. "Wait. So was I. I was in different sort of organized crime. Only it was non violent crime. I joined the peace movement. We protested US policy in Central America.

"We had planning meetings on exactly how to cross police lines so as to ensure we would get arrested. Then plead guilty and invoke the principle of nonviolent civil disobedience to use our crime against local ordinances to draw attention to the larger crimes perpetrated by US policy in foreign contries.

"I got arrested and pled guilty and went to jail. I did it for penance. I thought it was to do penance for the sins of my country. I was really acting out the unconscious shame that seeped in by growing up in my shame ridden, lie ridden family."

The worst thing was in my family I learned to keep secrets and cover for people without anyone even telling me to do so.

I learned this before I was old enough to talk or think self reflectively.

So I early on learned to make allowances.

People with this kind of background will have a quite difficult time picking up warning signs and doing so early on.

And..very many of us grow up in such backgrounds.

Can tell you that when I attended a geneology/family history workshop, the teacher asked the class how many had discovered family skeletons in the course of their research.

About seventy five to eighty percent raised their hands.

I dont know if this reflects how commonplace it is for families to lie and hide secrets, or if persons from such families are more likely to get involved with geneology workshops.

I can offer another thing I learned the hard way.

We treated my father as if he were a guru. He wasnt a religious figure. But we mythologised my father as a genius, as a Renaissance man, ignoring that he had become rather off kilter.

Dad had been rigorously trained from childhood to be a classical musician, so he was used to having a lot of people see to his needs.

When he faltered at work, a musician friend covered for him.

So this set me up to cover for people and also get entangled with people who
were guru type figures and needed enablers in thier lives.

And, even if one has grown up in a good family, as humans we are highly adaptable to our social surroundings.

Heroes are celebrated precisely because they are rare.

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: meh ()
Date: March 10, 2014 12:55AM

Finding out that people we've loved and placed our trust in have lied to us shakes our understanding of reality. When we've been fed untruths, especially by our parents, how can it do anything else? These are the people who are supposed to teach us the truths of life . . . how can you tell the real from the unreal? And it damages our bullshit-detectors, too, to be either non-functional or hyper-sensitive.

My most recent ex-husband could have been a poster-child for innocuous and banal, a saver of stray cats and could collapse in a heap of drunken tears at the slightest unkindness. You can imagine the shock when I found out he was spending a fortune on dominatrices.

How could I not have known? Very simple, as I think I wrote previously - since he'd been into all of that since before I'd met him and carried on the same behavior throughout our relationship, nothing about him or his habits ever changed. And definitely, one of the most skilled liars I'd ever met. But an obvious monster? No. Just someone you could meet in a bar, have a pleasant exchange with and maybe wonder how he could consume all that beer. Fully functional, a G-15 with the fed government (that's the highest pay-grade before they start unclassifying the grades), went to work every day, appeared to love his family . . .

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: meh ()
Date: March 10, 2014 03:33AM

For those of you in the US and who watch television, there's a piece on during Dateline this evening (NBC) about a Buddhist retreat center in AZ - Garchen Buddhism? Sounds fishy to me.

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