Nothing like your scenario, corboy, but my mother and father met on V-E day in a pub in London. Dear old dad was married back in the US but had conveniently gone off to war as a separation from the first wife (too bad he didn't tell her that). When mom met him, she told him that she was catholic, when in fact, she was protestant; she was from Wales, though, where catholics like protestants as much as they do in Ireland. Since my father was catholic, and she really wanted a better life, she decided to convert on the spot.

My father came home and divorced his first wife. The sticking point there is that catholic attitude about divorce; when he married my mother in a civil ceremony, not only was he excommunicated, but they were considered to be unmarried in the eyes of the church.

I remember one day when I was in first grade, they mysteriously went off somewhere, and when they returned, my mother had a new wedding ring and gave me her old one to play with (obviously, a highly treasured item). After that, my father started going to church and even joined the KofC.

They never told me, of course, but I was able to put together that somehow, my father had gotten his first marriage annulled and had married my mother in church on that odd day. Years later, I found that marriage certificate.

My father never knew that my mother wasn't catholic - I only found it out when I went to Wales and actually met some of her sister who not only staunchly denied that there had ever been a catholic in her family, but swore up and down that she had no idea who my mother was. I had undeniable evidence that she was . . . what a frustrating afternoon that was.

If anyone suggests that care and concern about sources and your determination to fact check means you are negative and cynical --

Take such as response as a signal to be alert.

Skepticism does not equal cynicism. And being skeptical does not make you 'negative minded' and does not make you a 'hater'.

Skepticism is the fart in the mist of New Age incense. It kills the woo woo mood.

Yet skepticism only asks for good quality information and from multiple, preferably objective sources to back up assertions.

Cynicism is justifiable only after one obtains evidence beyond reasonable doubt that someone is running something for self interest, not as they claim, for your benefit.


Skepticism

www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/skepticism?

an attitude of doubting the truth of something (such as a claim or statement). Full Definition of SKEPTICISM. 1. : an attitude of doubt or a disposition to incredulity ...

Cynicism

www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cynical?

believing that people are generally selfish and dishonest. : selfish and dishonest in a way that shows no concern about treating other people fairly ...
[/quote]

What an afternoon, Meh!

Am sorry I didnt write this first. The computer screen shows funny at the place where I am typing so I did not see your post until after I put this next one up.

Hope you were not staying at your aunts' house....

I found out I was half Jewish when helping my aunt at a party. I asked "Where's the ham?"

Duh, de duh duh......oy veh.

I know, corboy - placement of posts gets kind of squirrely here.

No, we were staying in London - we'd taken a day-trip to my mother's home town and did a little preliminary research at the registrar's office. We met up with a woman who remembered my mother's family and told me that I had a cousin that was just up the street; we met with him, and he took me to his mother's house (my aunt). It was just really bizarre; she tried to convince me that her family had moved out of the house my mother was born in. It didn't jive at all - she acknowledged that her parents had the same identical names as my mother's parents and her siblings had the same names as my mother's (keep in mind that this was in a very small town, and the people were kind of unworldly - I'm sure she thought she was a very clever liar). Then she told me a ghost story about the house that her mother had told her; as she was speaking, I flashed back to when I was four or five years old, and my mother was telling me the exact same story - same words, same timing . . . they had obviously heard the story from the same source. I pulled the RC card at the end of our chat, really hoping to force her into admitting that my mother was her sister, and that's when she told me that there were never any catholics in the family.

It's funny how people can become so anti- whatever they are. There are anti-Semitic Jews and African Americans who look down on their own. The Welsh were long thought of as a sub-race by the English; Welsh Gaelic was frowned upon in schools (kids were disciplined harshly for using it) and they lost a great deal of their cultural history. The English certainly hated the Irish, but they combined that hatred with contempt for the Welsh. My mother would rarely admit to being from Wales, and would identify herself as British.

Haha! I went to a Jewish wedding and reception and wondered why there was no butter on the table or cream for the coffee! Oy . . . did I feel like a schmuck.

How's your move going, btw.

Thanks for posting in the middle of it all..

Ok, thanks corboy! It's still 68 days out (who's counting?), but I'm starting to switch stuff around, throw some stuff out and donate other stuff. I'm going to start packing up stuff that I'm not going to be needing until after the move and cleaning things (like the oven) that will I won't have to re-clean before moving. The management company is so schmuck-y that I'm sure they'll try to hold my deposit if they can, so I want to make sure that everything is all nice and shiny when I move.

Are you kidding? This forum is one of the sanest places I can think of!

This entire essay may be worth attention by those who have been in SGI.

The entire essay is lengthy and full of insights.

One could copy the text of the document into a Word file, then using Find and Replace command, replace Krishna and other names and terms with names and terms corresponding to the same persons and practices within SGI.

[webcache.googleusercontent.com]

Here is just one gem from the collection.

88
Having regular access to the personal sanctums of the movement's leaders and gurus, I learned that a public spiritual persona can be, in large part, a contrivance, a mask, an act, involving conscious transformations of voice-tone and physical bearing—like the assumed demeanor of an emperor as he leaves his boudoir for the balcony to behold his adoring subjects. As a privileged member of the organization (albeit one without political portfolio), I witnessed numerous such scenes of pretension, pomposity, and puerile Popery.

From the source cited above:

Just had to include this one.

"81

I learned that however much we devotees characterized our quest for converts as a search for authentic spiritual seekers (or, alternatively, for "the intelligent class of men" as Prabhupada termed it), we developed a special sensitivity for spotting people in crisis, those unsure of themselves, those seeking direction, those with weak defenses. Such confusion and vulnerability we interpreted as "receptivity," spiritual sincerity, a willingness to take direction, to "surrender."

"Sincerity" and "receptivity" became, in effect, subliminal code words for easy pickings.

It's easier, after all, to recruit someone who will put up little resistance than someone with a well defined sense of self and a life plan.
"

It is easier, corboy, and we reveal ourselves as easy pickings by just being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Who else, other than someone who's looking to have some pretty specific questions answered, is going to show up at the kaikan or ask someone to get in touch with them via a "religious" website? I don't think anyone just randomly makes themselves accessible by randomly showing up at krg . . . if you've looked at the sgi wbsite, for example, you've already found answers to some basic questions you've had in mind. Having someone contact you indicates that you like the answers you've seen thus far and either want some clarification or have more questions. You've already primed yourself, to one degree or another.

Since the days of street shakubuku are over, you're more than likely to have a member in your circle of acquaintances or you've met them by striking up a conversation with them in some public place. You've probably said something that's given them an opening, that's led them to think that you might be open. They only need to get their foot a little further in the door, and they'll start telling you everything that you want to hear.

Last year, a WD leader that I'd been friends with in my previous district came for an extended visit. At one point, we took the dog to a local park and struck up a conversation with another dog-walker. Very casual, lasting maybe five minutes. As soon as we got back to the car, my companion started strategizing how we should try to arrange to be back in the park at about the same time every day, with nam card in hand, and how we could guide the conversation towards sgi. That creeped me out, even though I was still a member - it seemed so stalker-y, you know? It made me realize that I had met very few outsiders since I started practicing whom I didn't eye up as shakubuku prospects. That recognition did NOT make me happy. Just another crack in the façade . . .

" It made me realize that I had met very few outsiders since I started practicing whom I didn't eye up as shakubuku prospects."

Welcome to intolerant religions.

With Christians, it's "souls to be saved."

But don't expect anything other than the most conditional acceptance - unless you sign on (whatever that means for each group), they will only waste so much time on you. If you don't convert/sign up/join, they'll drop you like a piece of dog doo and move on to the next target.