Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Date: October 26, 2013 05:00AM

That's actually a good suggestion, meh. My former district leader *DIED* (she was younger than I), but I ran into a former chapter leader a few months ago - I think I could remember her name if I tried. OR I could just stop in at the new Community...ah, excuse me, BUDDHIST Center and ask at the desk, now couldn't I??

Some years ago, we decided to go all cell phone and canceled the house land line. Only my former friend knew my cell phone number - at the time I was still involved with the cult, I only used my house line for communications with them. I reserved the use of my cell phone for my friends and, tellingly in retrospect, I put the SGI people more in the category of "business contacts" rather than "friends" and, thus, the sort to make advertising calls which the answering machine could take.

I just remembered a woman I used to know through the cult. She was a Polish national; as I grew up in Europe, I tended to have an affinity for interacting with the expats within the cult. So anyhow, she was a widow, though only in her 30s; when their daughter was only 2, her husband had died of some sort of illness that had taken over a year, maybe 2 years, to finish him off. So she was telling me she would like to see his life (or his death or something) made into a movie. "Are you working on a screenplay, then?" I asked. Oh, no, what she had in mind was that SOMEONE ELSE would make the project happen and she'd work on it as a consultant. Yeah, rotsa ruck, honey! Also, we were having a discussion over the phone once, and she thought it was so great and insightful that it should be written down. Okay, says I. So we keep talking, and she suddenly says, "Are you writing all this down??" I said, "No - why don't YOU write it down since YOU suggested that it needs to be written down?" That was pretty much the end of that discussion. Geez - what presumption and a sense of entitlement! "Everybody SERVE me!!"

Good times, good times O_O Don't miss it a bit!

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: meh ()
Date: October 26, 2013 07:53PM

They are an odd lot, that's for sure. A "sense of entitlement" definitely applies.

Kind of funny - I mentioned in a previous post about a "friend" from ABQ getting my phone number briefly after I told another member in LC about my resignation. I hadn't checked facebook for awhile, and surprise-surprise, there was a private message on there for me from Ms. ABQ. Oh, gee, been thinking about you, how you doing, blah-di-blah. Once again, I don't really have any confirmation that this contact was the result of my now-former friend in Cruces contacting her, so I thought "okay, let's see where this goes." I responded by telling her how well things are going right now - in as natural a tone as possible - and I got an almost immediate response about how benefits and good fortune for her family have tripled in the past year. Typical jargon. Ironically, her hubby's shiny new job is with the military - how very Buddhist, working on the background technology to help soldiers kill more people. I love the idea that these biddies think that they are so sly and clever; of course, since I'm stupid enough to leave the best Buddhist organization (ever), I'm obviously too stupid to figure out this little BS dance.

I'm going to play along until I find out for sure that this contact took place as a result of a busy little yenta in LC contacting ABQ. Once again, I don't have a shadow of a doubt that that's the case, but I've misjudged people before and don't want to make a mistake here and have my error become fodder for those beeyatches. There are reasons I don't want to offend D in ABQ - her sister is good friends with my friend X. And I'm the one who chose to remain FB friends with her, and I "came out" to the woman in LC. I'm not saying that I asked for this sitch, but I did leave the communication path open.

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: meh ()
Date: October 27, 2013 11:52PM

Okay, so I'm in front of my mental chalkboard, and writing "I will never trust another sgi member again" 1,000 times. It was my dear "friend" X in WA who got in touch with the NM contingent to get them to chant for my return to the feverish arms of the org. I have rarely felt so betrayed, and that counts the time I found out that my most recent ex-husband was laying out big bucks for a dominatrix to pee on him. Once I determined it was X, I sent her a harsh email; the nicest thing I said was that I didn't want her to chant for me - not because I thought it would do anything, but I didn't want her to lean on the comfort of it.

So now I have a sense of another dimension of the division between sgi-members and defectors; I don't want anyone conniving behind my back to bring me back to the fold, and the best way to assure that is to cut them out of my life. I'm not sure if I'm more angry or sad.

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Date: October 28, 2013 02:41AM

Welcome to the reality of intolerant religion, meh. Over the years, I have seen similar realizations, similar bitterness and hurt, when former "best friends" within the church suddenly dropped all contact when someone decided to transfer to a different church. Business relationships severed; unanticipated, damaging fallout as connections were deliberately, methodically, coldly cut.

(Edit: The fact that everyone does this without the slightest indication of objecting to it is perhaps the most painful of all - it shows beyond the shadow of a doubt that they never cared for you and will never miss you.)

The SGI manipulation extravanganza is similar though different - it is now clear to you that you are nothing but a target. A goal to be won. There's a reason you feel like a number, and the disrespect and predatory attitude that resolutely refuse to acknowledge, much less accept, the reality of your life is glaring and now obvious. At least the cold, calculating cutoffs I mentioned at first accept that the person is gone. That person has committed the ultimate betrayal (leaving the group) and now the shunning must begin. The SGI's approach is different; the betrayer must be reclaimed and once again placed under Das Org's control.

The similarity is that, in both cases, there can be no honest relationships, and the reason for that is that there never WERE honest relationships. In an intolerant religion, there is a clearly defined, palpable "us vs. them" mentality, and if you cross over from "us" to "them", you are now reclassified. You have no other defining characteristics. Your "acceptance" by the group was always contingent upon your sharing their belief, but most of us never realized that until we left. We *thought* we were forming REAL friendships, the sorts of relationships that can see the participants grow and change and strike out in new directions - after all, isn't that what a FAMILY is all about? And doesn't the SGI pride itself on being "the most ideal FAMILY-like organization in the world"?? Yet what we realize is that it was never a healthy family. It was a screamingly dysfunctional family, but there, too, it's really hard to see that clearly while you're in it. We are so adept at explaining away some uncomfortable details and excusing others. But in the end, it's exhausting. And disappointing, as for all its talk about "family" and "friendship," it doesn't happen. What sort of friendship is it if you only see each other at some uncomfortable, contrived, formalistic setting, and the only real communication between you is about that (dreaded) event? I mean, the fact that Das Org dictates the meeting content and the meeting format, with dour, stern "senior leaders" there to observe and later critique, means that no one is going to enjoy it. Yet everyone is exhorted to make that impossibility happen, "through faith"!

Insanity!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2013 02:43AM by StillTaitenAndProud.

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: October 28, 2013 03:23AM

Quote

Edit: The fact that everyone does this without the slightest indication of objecting to it is perhaps the most painful of all - it shows beyond the shadow of a doubt that they never cared for you and will never miss you

Quote

The SGI manipulation extravanganza is similar though different - it is now clear to you that you are nothing but a target.

Taiten nailed it. The ugly truth is, you're regarded as not merely an object, but an interchangeable object.

A cog in the machine. When a cog is worn out, discard it and replace with a fresh new one, recently won and flattered into joining the machine.

When one of the cogs gets up, out and leaves, that scares management. They have to woo dissidents back, because its too frightening to recognize that an object can regain human agency and leave. Too much danger this will spread a subversive message to the rest of the machine.

And perhaps these departures remind the members of the human agency they sacrificed. Parts of themselves they have split off and disowned--agency, doubts, anger they dare not acknowlege as their own.

They dont see you when trying to woo you back; you merely represent a part of themselves they want to regain control of. A part of themselves they're trying to keep under control, a part of themselves that threatens to activate each time another member defects.

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: meh ()
Date: October 28, 2013 04:56AM

Thanks, STAP and Corboy . . . I honestly believed that since I'd known X for so many years, before and after joining, that it was a "real" friendship. There are a lot of things I'll forgive, but betrayal is not one of them. I really never entertained the idea that she would go behind my back as she did, but I suppose I should've been prepared for that. One of the things I told her this morning was that one of the reasons I left the org was because they would use any means or justification they could scrape together to bring someone back into the herd, regardless of that person's wishes. It's disrespectful, arrogant and manipulative, not to mention dishonest at a profound level. Spirituality, to me anyway, is something that is such an intimate part of who I am that their plot to bring me back is almost as bad as the "pray away the gay" mentality. I don't anger easily, but I was shaking from head to foot.

There's a certain amount of satisfaction in knowing that I've thwarted their little scheme; not that it's a big deal in the real world, but D's sister (in ABQ) is managing editor of the weird tribune - she's not going to have some big story about how chanting saved me from all those demons and devil-kings. I also won't have to listen to X brag about how she saved me from my foolish self. They won't see it, but what a wonderful example of how chanting doesn't work. Maybe their practice was deficient?

I suspect there are a lot of reasons to get in a dither when someone like me leaves. I was a good member who only started asking uncomfortable questions a couple of months before leaving . . . I think there were a number of people who were stunned when I left. If I had been a square peg all along, it would have been more expected.

Corboy - "And perhaps these departures remind the members of the human agency they sacrificed. Parts of themselves they have split off and disowned--agency, doubts, anger they dare not acknowlege as their own."

I think you hit the nail on the head there - every member who leaves touches on the doubts and anger . . . X alluded to me making my life whole by re-joining. She was unable to reconcile that my life already is whole, and had become more so after I took charge of it by leaving. That has to be disturbing for someone who has given up their own will. For them, 2+2 will always equal whatever number they're told it will equal; for them to do an equation on their own is terrifying.

A little bit of sadness at this point, but I'll get over it.

As always, thanks for the support!

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Date: October 28, 2013 08:05AM

One thing I left out that I meant to include is that REAL Buddhism is about accepting situations and others AS THEY ARE. It's about acknowledging reality, not being caught up in delusions of how things SHOULD be and fantasies about how to change reality into something it's not.

REAL Buddhism is about realizing that you can be content and fulfilled regardless of situations and others. Simply because you are comfortable being you, comfortable in your own skin, and you're doing the things that you enjoy and that enable you to feel fulfillment and a sense of accomplishment.

The SGI misses the point so wildly, in such an extreme manner, that it would be laughable if so many people weren't losing years of their lives chasing after the delusions and attachments that even the SGI acknowledges cause suffering.

It's really very simple - if you feel you need a specific outcome for a situation, you're deluded. If you feel you know what's best for someone else, you're deluded. If you feel that you are in a position to judge someone else's life, you're deluded.

Rather than remaining in thrall to these delusions and allowing them to drive you (and the rest of us) crazy, the Buddhist thing to do would be to address those delusions head-on, figure out what it is you think you need from them, and come to terms that there's nothing around you that's going to bring you happiness or that you need in order to become happy. That's entirely up to you and independent from anything and everything else in the world.

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: meh ()
Date: October 29, 2013 06:18AM

And Shakyamuni Buddha himself urged his followers to question everything, "even my own teachings." If I had even the most remote inclination to go back to sgi, it's pure delusion to think that I would return after all this deception and attempted manipulation. X had highly criticized the leadership behavior that I had described to her, and then stepped directly into the footsteps - yes, Corboy, "cognitive dissonance" at its finest.

SGi and Nichiren have so little to do with true Buddhism that it's like comparing apples and orangutans.

I don't wish X or any of her little cohorts ill, but I never want to hear from any of them ever again. It might well be that sgi members will shun former members, but the strain of being polite and not knowing whether their intentions are honorable is more than I'm willing to deal with.

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Date: October 29, 2013 10:14PM

Could you go back, though? I couldn't - I outgrew magical thinking, so the most basic aspects of their practice now appear nonsensical and deluded.

This is why the intolerant religions so carefully manage their membership's reading lists. Only the approved texts are permitted. Their leaders want to be the sole source of information, in order to keep the members going in the mindset they've managed to get them to buy into thus far.

The most dangerous risk is information, and they know it. Christianity has been into book burnings since New Testament days (see Acts 19:19), and Nichiren famously called for the government to put the priests of all the other Buddhist sects TO DEATH and to burn down all their temples (The Selection of the Time) - see below:
Quote

In the secular texts it says, “A sage is one who fully understands those things that have not yet made their appearance.” And in the Buddhist texts it says, “A sage is one who knows the three existences of life— past, present, and future.”

Three times now I have gained distinction by having such knowledge. The first time was the first year of the Bunno era (1260), cyclical sign kanoesaru, on the sixteenth day of the seventh month, when I presented my On Establishing the Correct Teaching for the Peace of the Land to His Lordship, the lay priest of Saimyo-ji, by way of the lay priest Yadoya Mitsunori.153 At that time, I said to the lay priest Yadoya, “Please advise His Lordship that devotion to the Zen school and the Nembutsu school should be abandoned. If this advice is not heeded, trouble will break out within the ruling clan, and the nation will be attacked by another country.”

The second time was the twelfth day of the ninth month of the eighth year of the Bun’ei era (1271), at the hour of the monkey (3:00–5:00 P.M.), when I said to Hei no Saemon-no-jo: “Nichiren is the pillar and beam of Japan. Doing away with me is toppling the pillar of Japan! Immediately you will all face ‘the calamity of revolt within one’s own domain,’ or strife among yourselves, and also ‘the calamity of invasion from foreign lands.’ Not only will the people of our nation be put to death by foreign invaders, but many of them will be taken prisoner. All the Nembutsu and Zen temples, such as Kenchoji, Jufuku-ji, Gokuraku-ji, Daibutsuden, and Choraku-ji, should be burned to the ground, and their priests taken to Yui Beach to have their heads cut off. If this is not done, then Japan is certain to be destroyed!

The third time was the eighth day of the fourth month of last year (the eleventh year of the Bun’ei era), when I said to Saemon-no-jo: “Even if it seems that, because I was born in the ruler’s domain, I follow him in my actions, I will never follow him in my heart. There can be no doubt that the Nembutsu leads to the hell of incessant suffering, and that the Zen school is the work of the heavenly devil. And the True Word school in particular is a great plague to this nation of ours. The task of praying for victory over the Mongols should not be entrusted to the True Word priests! If so grave a matter is entrusted to them, then the situation will only worsen rapidly and our country will face destruction.”
First of all, the Mongols had been invading all the surrounding countries for the last half century, so it was no stretch to suggest they would soon turn their gaze toward Japan.

Second, Japan's ruling family had had loads of conflict for, like, the previous hundred years, so predicting more of the same was another no-brainer.

Third, while Nichiren made a great big hairy deal about his "predictions," THEY FAILED! He was unable to foresee that the government would settle down and, under , enjoy years of peaceful prosperity where Nichiren had predicted "trouble" and "internal strife." Japan was never actually invaded by the Mongols; the Mongol fleet was destroyed by a typhoon at one point, and then the Japanese successfully repulsed further Mongol invasion attempts! Here is an old piece of artwork depicting Japanese samurai boarding Mongol vessels: [en.wikipedia.org]

And what of Nichiren's insistence that these nasty effects would come "immediately" and "rapidly"? They didn't!

The way that weasel Nichiren got around his "predictions"' abject failure was by claiming that the fact that the Mongols sent a letter = "invasion by a foreign country". Oh please! REALLY, Nicki??? LAME!!

So the people of Japan were not "put to death by foreign invaders," as Nichiren threatened, and Japan was never destroyed. Heck, Japan never even did a turn as a Mongol vassal state! So Nichiren was as wrong as it is possible to be!

Some Ikedabots try to avoid acknowledging this utter FAIL by claiming that, oh, the occupation of Japan post-WWII, in the 1940s, counts! THAT is the fulfillment of Nichiren's prediction! Heck, if you wait long enough, pretty much anything might happen, right? Whatever happened to "immediately" and "rapidly"? I don't think anyone can describe some 700 years later as "immediately" or "rapidly"! From an earlier post:
Quote

From the SGI site:
Quote:
On the sixteenth day of the seventh month, 1260, Nichiren submitted a treatise titled On Establishing the Correct Teaching for the Peace of the Land (Rissho Ankoku Ron) to HojoTokiyori, the retired regent who was nevertheless the most influential man in the Kamakura shogunate. In that work, he attributed the disasters ravaging the country to slander of the correct teaching and belief in false teachings. In particular, he criticized the dominant Nembutsu school. Of the three calamities and seven disasters described in the sutras, he predicted that the two disasters that had yet to occur—internal strife and foreign invasion—would befall the nation without fail if it persisted in supporting misleading schools. He urged that the one vehicle teaching of the Lotus Sutra be embraced immediately.

In the second month of that year (1272), Nichiren's prediction of internal strife came true when HojoTokisuke, an elder half brother of Regent HojoTokimune, made an abortive attempt to seize power. [www.sgi-usa.org]

So a dozen years (1260 to 1272)...it's like they say in Fight Club, "On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero." So the most accurate prophecy is the one that's inevitable, right? Just be smart enough to not qualify it with "immediately" or "rapidly"! (Nichiren was not a smart man.)

Oh, gee. Predicting "internal strife" to the ruling Hojo clan, when the Hojos had seized control of the government in 1199 and...I'll let Encyclopedia Britannica tell the tale:

Quote:
By 1247, when members of the house and clan held, through appointment, dominion over half the provinces of Japan, Hojo rule tended to become authoritarian, and the regency was run not from its titular office but from Hojo headquarters as a family council. This assumption of power, beginning with Tokimasa, was not difficult because the armed class did not wish to relinquish the peace, profits, and stability the bakufu (military government) had brought it. They were reluctant to permit the heir Yoriie, a youth of uncertain temper and strong appetites, to become shogun. Yoriie attempted the murder of Tokimasa but was himself exiled and killed. When the remaining heir, Sanetomo, was murdered (1219), the last impediment to Hojo domination was gone. The final accretion of Hojo power came in 1221, when the emperor Go-Toba raised the Taira of western Japan against the Hojo. The revolt (Jokyu no ran) not only failed but in its failing the Hojo were able to confiscate thousands of estates and place them in the hands of landless adherents and friends. Many landless warriors, created by the litigious system of family inheritance in Japan, had little love for the Hojo but less for hunger and dispossession. Their number, as it rose and fell, was an indication of the stability of the bakufu, and until the late 13th century the Hojo kept their numbers small. The first three Hojo regencies—Yoshitoki, who succeeded Tokimasa in 1205, was murdered in 1224 and replaced by his son Yasutoki (1183–1242)—were the apex of capable feudal rule in Japan. Dependable cadastral records were created in 1222–23. In 1232 a brief and workable code (Joei shikimoku) for the conduct and regulation of the armed class in a feudal society was promulgated. Slowly, between 1221 and 1232, the simple military system of Yoritomo was transformed by the Hojo family into a capable private government.

Essentially, this meant maintaining a cordial but careful relationship with the court and its complex system of reigning, retired, and cloistered emperors and with the great aristocracy of Kyoto, who wished an end to the bakufu system. A Hojo commander and garrison were stationed in Kyoto, but the property, revenues, and ceremonials of the Imperial family and nobility were protected. The powerful Buddhist clergy were kept in hand by strict auditing of their accounts. (Gee, imagine that) The vassals of Hojo; were kept solvent, peaceful, and apart from the court. The peasant was protected in his freedom and tenure. The regency drew its income from the Hojo estates, which comprised nearly the whole of the Kanto. The family adhered firmly to Yoritomo’s dictum that the simple warrior life would best preserve this class from the pervasive decadence of the Kyoto aristocracy. Yasutoki died in 1242 and was succeeded by the Hojo regents Tsunetoki (1224–46) in 1242, Tokiyori (1227–63) in 1246, and Tokimune (1215–84) in 1256. Tokimune’s regency was the last stable and powerful epoch of the Hojo.

Wow, another Master of the Obvious moment for Nichiren! Yippee!! Tokimune had only recently come to power, so Nichiren tried to hook him in with every leader's greatest fear - a threat of internal strife, which Japan had been experiencing for decades already - through Nichiren's entire lifetime thus far. In fact, Tokimune's government proved "stable and powerful" - hardly what we'd expect from an "internal strife" threat! But poor Nichiren could not predict that the typical internal strife that had been symptomatic of Japan's government thus far would settle down.
That's the tricky thing about predictions - when they clearly and objectively don't come true, it reveals that the "sage" or "prophet" is phony. The SGI tries to get around that by insisting that the "prophecies" were completely unexpected AND that they came true! UNfortunately, when people read other sources for themselves, they learn the truth, which is not what the SGI wants them to see.

The trouble with unapproved reading material is that one might read it with utter confidence that it's wrong, only to find some detail, some turn of phrase, sticking in one's mind, resulting in a sudden realization that what one had believed is no longer convincing. I call that "outgrowing" the belief system; once it starts, the end inevitably and inexorably comes. And there's no going back. Another intolerant religion, Christianity, likes to say that atheists have to be so careful about what they read in order to avoid having their "belief" destroyed, but that's pure projection. It is the intolerant religions that seek to restrict their members' access to reading material, including that demon-populated Internet!

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: meh ()
Date: October 30, 2013 10:30PM

Wouldn't/couldn't go back - it would be like going back to living in a cave, starting a fire rubbing two sticks together and no cable TV.

Nichiren's attempts to be the Japanese Nostrodamus were pretty transparent; anyone with the inclination can look them up easily enough. The modern-day lies . . . about Nichiren himself, Senseless, the priesthood, the sho-hondo, how sgi conducts its business . . . it seems that very little that sgi presents about itself has much basis in truth. And the mind-twisting it does is obscene. But, boy - when the light starts to come in from the tiniest crack, it better get patched quickly, or it will illuminate the cess-pool you've decided to wallow in. Ignorance is not only bliss, it's safety for everybody. What will happen if all of a sudden, you realize that the crutch you've been leaning on is made of nothing but wishful thinking? But that's the priesthood poisoning your thinking, or ex-members who have become enemies or losers, right?

Once again, I go back to X . . . for the past six months, she's been presenting a supportive front, all the while waiting for me to fail and/or constructing little schemes to get me back into the fold. If you were to talk to her, she would tell you that any action is ok if it's for the good of someone else, but her view of what's good for someone else is so effed-up that she believes that only source of goodness comes from being a member.

I have never seen her so angry as when I called her on her shit the other day. I think an awful lot of that anger stems from feeling threatened and fearful. How dare I get a great job? How dare I have the chance to move to be closer to my daughter? How dare I be able to get on solid financial footing? All of that without chanting? She probably can't even form the thought that after her 40+ years of practice, she has very little to show for it. She and her husband are in really deep financial sushi, her health is not great and her daughter has been living in Hawaii for the past four or five years - my theory is that the poor girl had so little privacy that she got as far away as she could. X is so consumed by paranoia and fear that she can barely leave the house. X's life kind of sucks, despite hours in front of the gohonzon. She has a lot of reasons to be angry and resentful, but not at me. If she wants to waste her time sitting and droning away at a piece of paper, that's up to her. It's not up to her to decide that that's the best course for my life. That's up to me, and I am so glad that when the cracks started to appear and the light shine in, I actually started looking around at what I was in the midst of.

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