Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
StillTaitenAndProud
()
Date: September 19, 2013 02:34AM
Quote
Soka Gakai (SGI) Criticism Thread
Postby illarraza » Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:57 pm
The SGI is a Destructive Cult by Definition
1). "Destructive cults actively recruit new members, often through deceptive “front” organizations."
The SGI has the Boston Research Center, the Institute for Oriental Philosophy, Victory Over Violence, Institute for Human Rights Equality, the Japanese 7/11 [hehe] and others where their affiliation to SGI is rarely if ever mentioned.
2).Destructive cults claim to offer absolute Truth. Their teachings are not (to them) mere theory or speculation. The most effective cult doctrines are those which are unverifiable and unevaluable.
The SGI claims that their believers are the only Nichiren Lotus Sutra believers capable of obtaining Buddhahood, going so far to claim that all SGI members are Buddhas while those of the Nichiren Shu and Kempon Hokke are “deluded Shakyamuni worshippers”.
3).Destructive cults reduce everything to a bi-polar attitude: “for us, or against us.”
Anyone who criticizes the SGI, no matter how wise, is a fool and anyone who praises the SGI,no matter how foolish, is wise. Daisaku Ikeda writes, for example:
“Seven years have passed since then. The outcome of the struggle of good and evil and the workings of the law of cause and effect have been strict and uncompromising. The decline of the crazed and destructive Nichiren Shoshu is clearly apparent. The victims, unfortunately, are the la ybelievers who practice with the temple, who are not aware of Nichiren Shoshu’s evil and have been deceived by the priests.”
4).Destructive cults generate some kind of external “pet devil” with which to threatentheir members if they should doubt, or fail, or ever leave the group.
The SGI has dozens of “pet devils”. Those who leave will have misfortune on their jobs, in their families, in the social lives,have accidents, fall into hell, etc. President Toda stated: “If you keep this up, you’re going to cometo a pitiful end in life.” and “Betraying the Soka Gakkai is betraying the Daishonin. In the end, they’llreceive the punishment of the Buddha, you’ll see.” Ikeda says, “To take action to fight againstwhatever forces appear as the enemies of the Soka Gakkai is our most noble mission.” Matilda Bucksays, “How tragic it would be for even one person to have found the great means of bringing forthBuddhahood only to be diverted to another, seemingly similar, path that is incapable of leading thatindividual to his or her deepest happiness.” This is the jist of the Gakkai’s attempt to chain themembers to the Gakkai way of life. The Biggest ”pet devil” is Nikken of the Nichiren Shoshu:
“When Buddhism speaks of “devilish functions,” what does that really mean? These represent whatever tries to prevent us from advancing in our Buddhist practice. In a sense, they are frightened when we expand the Buddha?s forces, because the realm they want to control will the nbe changed into a pure land. In our case right now, this function is being manifested in the currenthigh priest of Nichiren Shoshu.”
5).Destructive cults lead their members to believe they are somehow superior to all other humans on the earth.
In many of Daisaku Ikeda’s speeches we see how the SGI members are to view themselves:
“Sons of the Gakkai”,
“Inheritors of Myoho”,
“Lions of the Mystic Law”,
“The sole group of true believers”,
“Truly praiseworthy are you who resolve to work hard for kosen-rufu and the SGI. You are the most noble of all people.”
6).Destructive cults put the will of the group above the will of the individual. This is often reinforced with simplistic games or rituals of some type designed to make the individual subservient to the group.
If you search, you will find such quotes from the eternal Soka Gakkaimentor, “the Soka Gakkai is more important than my life.” We also see the special Soka Gakkaiholidays like May 3rd, day of mentor and disciple, and such slogans as, “reaffirming the prime point of the Soka Gakkai”
We see inordinate references to Soka Gakkai, SGI, and Ikeda in nearly every experience given by an SGI member. There used to be dress and hair (short) and beard(none) codes for the SGI Young Men’s Division and on saturdays everyone had to dress in whitepants and white tee-shirts.7).
7).Destructive cults teach that the end justifies the means.
How they misuse upaya (expedient means) is a travesty. Flirtatious shakabuku by young women’s division, telling peoplethey can get new cars and even drugs if the chant, teaching people that they will immediatelybecome Buddhas if they join the SGI, and the list goes on and on how they utilize the ends justifythe means philosophy of Machiavelli, the antithesis of the Buddha’s teachings.
8).Destructive cults teach strict obedience to superiors and encourage the developmentof behavior patterns that are similar to those of the leader.
Is there any doubt why the SokaGakkai is known throughout the ten directions as the Ikeda cult? Guidance division, never criticizing leaders, “follow no matter what”, this is so apparent to everyone but the brainwashed SGI memberhimself. Lately, the SGI has abandoned any subtle pretense with such overt youth division guidelinesas, “
Reveal your true identity as Shinichi Yamamoto” and “I want to be ShinichiYamamoto”
9).Destructive cults offer acceptance by the group for good performance, and conversely,withhold it for poor performance.
Moving up the ladder from Jr Group Chief, to Group Chief, toDistrict Chief, to Chapter Chief, to Area Chief, to Territory Chief, to Joint Territory Chief and so on.Busting people from their position or moving them at the leaders will.
10).In destructive cults, fear is a major motivator. Guilt is a close second, and shame isthird. Only the cult leader is perfect, so everyone below is fearful that those above willfind out their shortcomings. Cult members feel constantly guilty for having those real or imagined shortcomings, and are ashamed that they haven’t worked harder to get rid of them.
“Never talk about your problems to the members until they are resolved.”
“Did you know that so and so got hit by a car and is paralyzed. He should have stayed with the Soka Gakkai.”
“She turned in her SGI Gohonzon and lost her job and her house.”
“He committed suicide not soon after joining the Nikken sect.”
11).Destructive cult members swing from emotional highs, to emotional lows regularly. Lows are not long tolerated, and result in more indoctrination, or even ejection from the group if they last too long.
Here are some examples of SGI speech used to control their members: “You have weak faith.”. ‘You had better go for guidance if you want to resolve that problem”. Rumors to stay away from depressed individuals. Not inviting less than enthusiastic members to certain meetings or not telling them about “important” meetings. Lectures about “emotionalism”, [unless the emotion is rapture about the SGI and the mentor]. Every last former SGI cult member will attest to this.
12).Destructive cults tend to re-write their members’ past, manipulate their present, and distort their future. Disrupting time orientation is an honored technique of all such cults.
Human Revolution, New Human Revolution, New New Human Revolution. Need I say more?
13).And, finally, there is never a legitimate reason for leaving a destructive cult. The only reason members leave a perfect system, is because they are imperfect in some respect and will be punished for it.
“He was angry.”
“He was jealous.”
"He couldn’t get along with his leader.”
“He had weak faith.”
(even if "he" continues to chant three hours a day and does shakabuku with the Nichiren Shu or the Kempon Hokke). “No matter which destructive cult you choose, the above 13 items will almost universally apply".
The author of these 13 points [whose name escapes me] then goes on to conclude: Study the methods of est, LaRouche, Transcendental Meditation, Truth Station, Soka Gakkai, TheWay International, Children of God, Temple of Set, Synanon, Scientology ®, The Peoples Temple, Unification Church, Hare Krishnas, House of Judah, Ramtha, Garbage Eaters, Rajneesh, ECK, ChurchUniversal and Triumphant, Elan Vital, Posse Comitatus, or any of the others…. they use the same techniques, even though each of them claims unique and absolute ownership of the “truth.”
Illarraza [www.dharmawheel.net]
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
StillTaitenAndProud
()
Date: September 19, 2013 02:39AM
Quote
Former SGI-USA Leader Denounces Money Collecting Style
TAWDRY FORMER SGI-USA LEADER DENOUNCES MONEY COLLECTING STYLE OF AMERICAN SOKA GAKKAI
Shukan Shincho, 8/4/94
"The Soka Gakkai is the world's largest cult." Scathing flames of denunciation blaze up from a former leader who engaged in activities in the U.S. for 20 years. Until three years ago, Mr. Frank Ross (46), who resides in Chicago, served as the Lake Shore Headquarters Chief in the American SGI (Soka Gakkai International). The money gathering style in the U.S. he speaks of is pernicious, the same as in Japan. He says Honorary President Ikeda is a "money-sucking vampire."
Mr. Frank Ross was born in 1948 in a rural town on the outskirts of Chicago. His father is Polish and his mother is German. Mr. Ross himself was originally a Catholic, as are both his parents. He currently is employed as a manager (assistant manager) for a major company in the retail trade. He is married and has a ten year old son.
"It was 1968 when I first came into contact with the SGI. At that time it was known as NSA or Nichiren Shoshu Academy. The Cold War was in full swing, and the war in Viet Nam was going strong. President Kennedy and the Rev. Martin Luther King had been assassinated. Young people in America were horrified at the world into which they were just beginning to emerge as adults. And I was 20 years old."
He left his home town and went to work in San Francisco. The first person who approached him about Buddhism was a certain Japanese woman. "A woman I happened to meet invited me to a Buddhist discussion meeting. I declined at first, but I ended up going with her. We removed our shoes outside the meeting site, and when we went inside, there were many people gathered. One woman was speaking about world peace. Since then, I had been pulled into this religion which chanted Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, with the belief that whatever I prayed for would be realized."
He was told that the Soka Gakkai began its propagation activities in the U.S. around 1960. At that time, activities centered around so-called "war-brides," Japanese women who had gone to the U.S. after marrying American servicemen who had served in Japan during the Occupation.
However, most of the credit must be given to George Williams, a.k.a. Masayasu Sadanaga, the current SGI-USA General Director Emeritus. He was originally a full-fledged Japanese, but he changed his name and his citizenship for the sake of propagation. This man built the foundation of activities in the U-S. The basic style of activities at that time was to hold stage shows in the streets, do street shakubuku, and solicit hippies and such. Mr. Ross was one of the Americans who was swallowed up by the Gakkai.
"I thought that by serving the Gakkai, I would achieve magical, mystical or supernatural results. I was convinced that benefits lay only in attending meetings, buying Gakkai publications and receiving guidance from leaders. Afterwards I repeatedly changed jobs, and spent several months in New York, but the Gakkai members always helped me. I joined in 1969. After that, I was a Gakkai slave for more than 20 years."
In 1991, because he followed up on the dishonest way the money collected from believers was being spent, Mr. Ross was instructed that he was excommunicated. However, Mr. Ross, as a leader, experienced the Gakkai's cruel money gathering activities.
He further relates, "Several years ago, an SGI Headquarters Chief in Chicago contracted AIDS and subsequently died, even though hundreds of SGI followers were summoned to the Kaikan to chant for his recovery. He was called enlightened and with Buddha. On the other hand, if I get so much as a pimple on my nose, the Gakkai would now tell me, 'You received punishment from the Gohonzon' That is how much they employ brain-washing and mind-control. However, they clearly are nothing more than a business which borrows the title of religion to use as 'bait.' l truly regret doing the activities I did."
The SGI-USA organization is comprised of 4 major regions under the current General Director Fred Zaitsu Eastern (New York, Florida, etc.), Midwestern (Chicago, New Orleans, etc.), Southeast and West (California). It is then further divided into smaller regions. Responsible positions range from two people responsible for the smallest organizational unit up to 15 Vice- General Directors. The person responsible for Chicago, including its surrounding environs, is Vice-General Director Guy McCloskey. It is said that in the entire country, he is in the number two position behind Mr. Zaitsu.
Mr. Ross began engaging in activities of the World Tribune, the U.S. version of the Seikyo Shinbun, as a staff member in the 1970's. For 18 years he participated in this work in a non-salaried position.
"The World Inbune is exactly like Pravda of the old Soviet Union. I wrote nearly one article a day, but the contents were entirely favorable to the Gakkai. Their only goal was to brain-wash existing Gakkai members and to acquire new members. I had my choice of which meetings to cover, but I was told by the leaders to falsely report the number of attendees. A camera angle from one shot could make a few hundred participants seem like several thousand, and that's what we reported."
However, Mr. Ross says that aside from acquiring subscription charges for that kind of periodical, the contrivances to coerce donations from believers are the same in the U.S. as they are in Japan.
"Donations are all made by check. A representative would then gather them together and remit them to the Los Angeles Headquarters. When I was doing activities, the minimum a person could give every month was $20, but there were many people who donated $100 a month. This would be either inserted into a box at the Headquarters, or placed in previously distributed envelopes. Among those giving donations, there are some Japanese women who married wealthy Americans and who give $500 a month, but of course there are also many people who are struggling financially in their daily lives. I too, collected money from such people, and I truly regret it."
At that time Mr. Ross, as well, threw himself into propagation activities, including donating to the Gakkai one-third of his $20,000 a year salary. "I naturally was often asked by believers, 'What's this money used for?' However, I had no authority over how the money was spent, so I could only answer, 'It's used for world peace.'"
In addition, the infamous money gathering activities in Japan known as zaimu [financial affairs] are also designated as zairnu in the U.S.
"Zaimu campaigns are conducted once a year. In September of both 1988 and 1989, large scale zaimu campaigns were conducted for a one month period. At that time, I was the Lake Shore Headquarters Chief with over 300 members. At that time, $3,500,000 was collected, and the purpose of the money was to construct a completely new Ikeda Auditorium on the site of the existing Chicago Culture Center. However, though it's now 1994, not a single structure has been built."
Lying behind the Soka Gakkai's slipshod money gathering activities are pathetic believers. It could be said that this is something all nations share in common.
"The zaimu related to the building of this Ikeda Auditorium caused suffering for many people. For example, a young man named Jon Samos donated the entire inheritance, $40,000, he had received from his father who had just passed away. He told his leaders that it was too much to give, but a leader told him to give it to him, and the leader walked away with the check. In addition, a man and a woman sold their engagement rings and donated $5,000. Another young couple, despite having trouble buying milk for their child, somehow managed to donate $1,000. I myself took two mortgages out on my house, and in 1989 donated $2,500. I eventually went bankrupt with over $20,000 worth of debts. In spite of that, I still continued doing activities, because the Gakkai always taught that no matter what happens, it's your karma. When something bad happens, their explanation is that it happened because you don't have enough enthusiasm."
A Women's Division Chapter Chief under Mr. Ross continued to donate $100 a month, despite having no heat in her residence and her refrigerator being broken. In the end, she declared bankruptcy just like Mr. Ross, but currently she has yet to extract herself from Gakkai activities.
Mr. Ross repeatedly questioned the organization's upper echelon about how the money was spent, but what he received in reply was a notice that he was excommunicated.
"Since I joined, the total amount I paid out for the Gakkai exceeds $100,000. However, that is a trifle compared to the total of donations the Gakkai takes in, and they have never made public how that moneymoney was being spent, and they ultimately told me to resign my Headquarters Chief position. I've sent 15 letters to Mr. Daisaku Ikeda requesting that donations be returned, but I've never received even a single reply." is spent. Despite hiring a high-priced accountant, cash, checks and receipts frequently were lost. However, the Vice-General Directors and others are paid a salary, and when there is even a single conference in Los Angeles, they use high- class hotels, and they purposely hold some conferences in Hawaii. I demanded to know how the
Incidentally, Mr. Ross twice came to Japan, once in 1970 and once in 1973. He says that he met Mr. Daisaku Ikeda at Taisekiji, where Mr. Ikeda happened to be.
"I was completely immersed in the Gakkai, so at the time, all I could say about meeting him was that it was wonderful. However, now I'm convinced that Ikeda's a money-sucking vampire. The Soka Gakkai is the world's largest cult. Not only are they dishonoring Japan, but in America as well, their existence is inhuman and causes trouble to people. Currently, Vice-General Director McCloskey took the previously mentioned zaimu and arbitrarily purchased a separate plot of land than the one for which the auditorium was previously planned, and says that they will build the auditorium there. However, even by Chicago standards, that location is famous for being in a high crime area overrun with drug dealers and prostitutes. Any religious group which continues such activities will only end up being disbanded."
Journalist Kunio Naito says, "No one will stay in an organization which exhibits objections and suspicions. This applies equally to Japan and the U.S., and is a sickness which is characteristic of the Gakkai. In the same way, it is unwholesome for the flow of money to be extremely cloudy. Unlike the Japanese, American Gakkai members abound with discernment and if they do not agree with something, they will steadily resign. I've heard that in America, there are not a few believers who joined amid the background of a heightened interest in Buddhism which occurred in conjunction with the advancement of the hippie movement, which itself occurred in response to the intensification of the Viet Nam War. However, regardless of the particulars of how they joined, veterans like Mr. Ross who have worked for 20 years or more of course become business-like and devoid of sentiment. If they were to disagree, they would be discharged, or they would be given the option to resign."
Mr. Toshimitsu Ryu, a former Komeito Party member of the Tokyo Diet, makes the following observation about the American Soka Gakkai of late. "In the U.S. they are saying that if money is paid to the SGI, benefit will result. This is worse than an 'Inspiration Business.' At any rate, in that country, they are stressing the adoration of Ikeda as a sage, and are teaching that kosen-rufu means spreading Ikeda's name, but Ikeda has been excommunicated from the sect, so to do such things cannot be justified. Originally, U.S. believers knew nothing about such things, but now the facts are coming to light. Last year during a speech at the SGI-USA General Meeting, Ikeda called Clinton an idiot. His true image is becoming completely clear to U.S. Gakkai members. For that reason, Gakkai members are quitting one after another. In order to locally maintain the organization and paid staff, they have no choice but ignore appearances and collect money under the pretext of constructing buildings."
Of course, Mr. Ross himself is aware of such circumstances. He says that in the U.S. they are playing a "numbers game." "Just how many Gakkai members currently exist throughout the entire country presents a very interesting problem. In the 1980's, the current SGI-USA General Director Emeritus George Williams claimed a membership of 500,000 and a World Tribune subscription base of 100,000. However, it is a certainty that today in 1994, there are 20,000 World Tribune subscriptions. This is a surprising decrease. Furthermore, Vice-General Director McCloskey tells the mass media that the SGI-USA has 350,000 believers, but recently, he admitted to a certain group of people that the actual number of members is close to 20,000, the same number as World Tribune subscriptions." No matter how much they bluff, the Soka Gakkai International-United States of America is certainly walking down a path toward destruction. [www.culthelp.info]
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
StillTaitenAndProud
()
Date: September 19, 2013 03:44AM
From the article above, this paragraph was garbled, but I didn't see how it should be until just now. Here is the corrected paragraph:
Quote
"Since I joined, the total amount I paid out for the Gakkai exceeds $100,000. However, that is a trifle compared to the total of donations the Gakkai takes in, and they have never made public how that money is spent. I demanded to know how the money was being spent, and they ultimately told me to resign my Headquarters Chief position. I've sent 15 letters to Mr. Daisaku Ikeda requesting that donations be returned, but I've never received even a single reply." Despite hiring a high-priced accountant, cash, checks and receipts frequently were lost. However, the Vice-General Directors and others are paid a salary, and when there is even a single conference in Los Angeles, they use high-class hotels, and they purposely hold some conferences in Hawaii.
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: September 19, 2013 05:47AM
My library of PMs was wiped out in the data transfer.
Can offer this, though.
Taiten is giving us descriptions of people who chanted NYRK and still did horrible things.
Another cliche alibi (Alibi A) is to say
"Well yeeees, Chapter MD leader in the St. Paul HQ had served a couple of years in prison for raping his stepdaughter .....but imagine how much worse he'd have behaved if he had not chanted NYRK."
Alibi B"chanting NYRK enabled this family to get through all this and come out stronger than before".
Alibi C "It was in the stepdaughters karma to go through this."
Or blame some pesky demon.
Folks, I was never in SGI.
Wanna know why I can guess this stuff and come up with RX for articles like the Umberto Eco item on Fascism which Taiten has highlit as descriptive of SGI?
Wanna know how I can guess on the button about a group Ive not even been a member of?
I'm psychic. Special powers.
No. Not at all.
Its because after reading lots of apologetics written by advocates defending other groups, one discovers how repetitive the alibis are.
Justifying abuses of power has to be a filthy job.
And...it adds insult to injury.
One's creativity is vampirized into serving an authoritarian group.
And when the group fails to deliver on its promises and needs spin doctoring, the leaders usually hide and their loyal entourage members are stuck uttering cliches.
They've become part of the Borg.
Can offer this, though.
Taiten is giving us descriptions of people who chanted NYRK and still did horrible things.
Another cliche alibi (Alibi A) is to say
"Well yeeees, Chapter MD leader in the St. Paul HQ had served a couple of years in prison for raping his stepdaughter .....but imagine how much worse he'd have behaved if he had not chanted NYRK."
Alibi B"chanting NYRK enabled this family to get through all this and come out stronger than before".
Alibi C "It was in the stepdaughters karma to go through this."
Or blame some pesky demon.
Folks, I was never in SGI.
Wanna know why I can guess this stuff and come up with RX for articles like the Umberto Eco item on Fascism which Taiten has highlit as descriptive of SGI?
Wanna know how I can guess on the button about a group Ive not even been a member of?
I'm psychic. Special powers.
No. Not at all.
Its because after reading lots of apologetics written by advocates defending other groups, one discovers how repetitive the alibis are.
Justifying abuses of power has to be a filthy job.
And...it adds insult to injury.
One's creativity is vampirized into serving an authoritarian group.
And when the group fails to deliver on its promises and needs spin doctoring, the leaders usually hide and their loyal entourage members are stuck uttering cliches.
They've become part of the Borg.
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
StillTaitenAndProud
()
Date: September 19, 2013 08:02AM
So you were never an SGI member, corboy? How did you end up here on THIS board, then? Do you just travel around to ALL the boards chatting up the exculties?
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: September 19, 2013 11:21AM
(Long breath)
*I got recruited into a cultic situation because I trusted a referral from a friend I utterly trusted. I was in a low moment. How can one distrust a friend?
Right now, I live in a part of the US full of off beat social movements. Many are excellent. And some are harmful.
*I grew up in a family full of secrets and zones of silence. Sensed the non verbals. I did public records research and learned that almost everything my parents told me about themselves was fake. I'd spent years thinking I was crazy because something always felt off. Turned out my nonverbal perception was accurate. So I hate lying, disinformation.
*Found out at age 12 I was half Jewish and that my grandmother and her second husband were killed by the Nazis. I met a man who fought in Pattons Army and helped liberate concentration camps. I met a man who was Jewish, arrested in a stress sweep by the Nazis. He was given a club and told to beat an old man. The man refused and walked away, expecting to be killed. He kept walking, no one stopped him. He didnt go home, but got the next train out of Vienna, and made it to Lisbon and from there to the UK, saving his own life. I'd ride the bus down Fairfax Street in LA and see lovely old men and women with blue numbers on their arms.
*I was obsessed and had to understand what happened for people to do such terrible things to each other.
*A buddy in high school lived down the street from us. Her mother had been in Scientology[www.google.com], then defected, fled to our city and hid in the house, afraid to venture out. Her daughter was burdened by this. Much earlier when I was 8 or so, I heard the word Scientology and because I was fascinated with science, asked my mom what it was. She blew up and said it was a very bad thing. Somehow, I had a sense she was right. Meeting my high school buddy and her terrified, agoraphobic mother really drilled it in.
*Sat watching TV as Walter Cronkhite announced Jonestown and said, "they are starting to commit suicide." He had a look of shocked horror as though facing a situation for which there was no precedent. (There was not)
In college, in one of our psychology classes, the professor arranged for a man to come visit us. He had survived Jonestown only because he was in the US on a business errand for Jones. This man lost his wife, children and grandparents.
I asked him how we could prevent getting involved with something like Jones church.
All the man could advise was, "You cant ever follow a human being. You have to follow God."
I remember my heart sinking, and thinking to myself, but that is why people got involved with Jones in the first place. I didnt have the heart to say anything, because the gentleman had already been through so much. But I didnt forget this, either.
*In graduate school, our department chairman was a graduate of Erhard Seminars Training (EST) [www.google.com] kept bugging us graduate students to do it. Fortunately none of us had the time or money to do it, so he couldnt single out anyone for favoritism. But he did let our favorite adminstrator go, and to this day she suspects it was because she refused to do EST. I also noticed that despite taking EST, the department chairman allowed himself to be pushed around by the academic dean and let the dean shit on one of the students and failed to intervene. So, EST only made this guy feel transformed. It turned him only into one more salesman for EST. It didnt give him courage where he needed it---looking to the well being of the students in his care.
EST,w ith some modifications is still around today, but under the name of Landmark Education.
*I got emotionally entangled with a Christian spiritual director and this happened despite my NOT wanting to get into a cultic set up. This was 1983. I'd read Snapping, yet it didnt cover the kind of situation I was vulnerable for. This guy was not trained to function as a counselor. Worse, it re enacted the fucked up stuff that went on between me and my father.
*A friend of mine who happens to be in Alcoholics Anonymous and who sponsors many people told me she got a phone call from a jail. That call was from an AA friend she had sponsored. This man, as part of doing his 12 step work, had sought ways to cultivate prayer and meditation and got involved with a group called Fellowship of Friends (which is listed in the Culteducation.com archives).
[www.google.com] group took his money, messed with his head and kicked him out. He had to hitchhike back home, resumed drinking and landed in jail. Which is where he called my pal. (This same pal was the one who was fired from the administrative job in our department possibly because she refused to do EST)
Under the influence of this man and also as part of my own belated adolescence in my twenties (which I dont wish on anyone) I got involved with the peace movement during the years of Reagans policies in Central America. I converted to Roman Catholicism. And....I actually wanted to be a martyr. Kid you not. Scares me today. Am very lucky the people I associated with were not into violence. Am not sure what I would have done if I'd kept company with people who were capable of planning violence. When John Walker Lindh hit the news, I could relate to him, though not approve of his actions.
When you are young and idealistic and crave an outlet, you are so exquisitely influenceable. Intelligence and social sophistication are not protection--none at all.
**During this time I had a lot of personal hardships and felt brittle inside. My core self was taking a pounding and I may have risked what therapists call a narcissistic collapse. So I went through several years of being a rather hard ass neo conservative christian, but only in terms of theology. Politically I stayed liberal. The one thing that kept me from going all the way in was I knew and loved so many friends in the gay lesbian community that I just could not buy into any church teachings about homosexuality being wrong. My heart just couldnt take that. Gradually, as I stablized and healed from the hardships, I stopped being such a tight ass.
**Spent some time in a church that was in communion with Rome but used Orthodox liturgy. Parish was a volatile mix of people who were liberal and often gay and loved the art and spirituality of Russian Orthodox Christianity and people who were ultra right wing, thought Clinton was evil, hated the changes of Vatican II but didnt want to break with Rome. I saw one family using the church in a cultic manner. The father had been kicked out of many other parishes because he had gone right up to strangers standing in line to receive Communion and and presumed to interrogate them about their Catholic bona fides.
That caused me to see how complex matters were. A church could have some members who were balanced and have others who treated it with the rigidity of a cult. I remember thinking, "WHat a complex task for a researcher. IF you interviewed just the X's, you'd think our parish is a cult. If you interviewed only someone like me or Benny, you'd think we were liberal. A representative sample is needed to figure out how a group actually ticks."
**I left Catholicism and Christianity because of theodicy. Drove me crazy that people could live good lives as my stepfather did, do a multitude of generous things, yet die bitterly miserable with themselves. I refused to accept this as one of the Great Mysteries. I ended up feeling like I was making excuses for God the way other people make excuses for drunken relatives or abusive spouses. I was just very, very tired. God was not a source of strength, he was someone I had to make excuses for.
**In 2002 I went to a public lecture by someone very big in the New Age scene. I wrote about it and described some of it here.
[forum.culteducation.com]
I was obsessed and began reading as much as I could about cults. I found RIck Ross's site. Soon he started the message board and I registered the first or second day the board started.
Ive seen other stuff but cannot discuss it without risking the loss of my privacy.
Things I have learned in life and also on this board:
*Some groups are layered like an onion. The outer circle members may not know the brutality and cruelty that actually goes on among the gurus inner circle. Outer circle members may be kept ignorant of quite different teachings and behaviors followed by inner circle members.
*Groups with an elitist or esoteric perspective may feel quite entitled to lie to outsiders or lower ranking members. Some can argue as trolls, and have endless stamina, not caring about logical consistency, because merely keeping an argument going to support a cult gives them 'merit' or 'good karma'. Persons who are rational and care about logical consistency and dont believe in karma or merit will get tired a lot sooner than the merit trolls.
* I have found out that people can be decades long members of cults (inmates) yet not appear zombie like or in any way abnormal. They can even function with distinction in society. They have learned to compartmentalize and give a reassuring, mainstream appearance to those outside their cult, or to lower ranking members. They will only display the full extent of their subservience in private with the leader who is recipient of their projections and manipulates their inner lives.
* The term lovebombing has a rather cartoonish ring. Conjures up images of gooey flatterers babbling "I love you I love you I love you."
NO. I would call it psychological operations. The most effective lovebombing is to tap fantasies hopes and dreams or fears that a person doesnt even know he or she has.
I got lovebombed at a respectable Buddhist retreat center. The retreat co leader told me I should become a Buddhist writer. I was immensely flattered because I felt like a failure in life, and I did enjoy writing. But I said I had not done enough meditation practice and had not taken the precepts.
This person repeatedly said with condescending smile that she didnt want to hear excuses. I had a strange feeling she got off on playing talent scout.
For a day or two I had my head in the clouds. Then I remembered the harm I incurred from the christian spiritual director who was not trained as a counselor and thought, I dont want to risk doing what I am not trained for. There are plenty of other excellent Buddhist writers out there who are qualified.' Later I learned this particular retreat leader was involved with unsavory people and her mentor had recruited someone who later went on to a disastrous career as a guru.
But this recruiter really got her hand into my pants, tickling my hopes and dreams.
That, friends is how lovebombing really works.
So...thats part of why I am here. This joint is also a place where I can share things I have read if any of it seems helpful to a discussion.
Umberto Eco's essay got me because of my ongoing interest in Nazism and my worries about it coming back.
But I have been amazed to see how many cults have this same anatomy, too.
*I got recruited into a cultic situation because I trusted a referral from a friend I utterly trusted. I was in a low moment. How can one distrust a friend?
Right now, I live in a part of the US full of off beat social movements. Many are excellent. And some are harmful.
*I grew up in a family full of secrets and zones of silence. Sensed the non verbals. I did public records research and learned that almost everything my parents told me about themselves was fake. I'd spent years thinking I was crazy because something always felt off. Turned out my nonverbal perception was accurate. So I hate lying, disinformation.
*Found out at age 12 I was half Jewish and that my grandmother and her second husband were killed by the Nazis. I met a man who fought in Pattons Army and helped liberate concentration camps. I met a man who was Jewish, arrested in a stress sweep by the Nazis. He was given a club and told to beat an old man. The man refused and walked away, expecting to be killed. He kept walking, no one stopped him. He didnt go home, but got the next train out of Vienna, and made it to Lisbon and from there to the UK, saving his own life. I'd ride the bus down Fairfax Street in LA and see lovely old men and women with blue numbers on their arms.
*I was obsessed and had to understand what happened for people to do such terrible things to each other.
*A buddy in high school lived down the street from us. Her mother had been in Scientology[www.google.com], then defected, fled to our city and hid in the house, afraid to venture out. Her daughter was burdened by this. Much earlier when I was 8 or so, I heard the word Scientology and because I was fascinated with science, asked my mom what it was. She blew up and said it was a very bad thing. Somehow, I had a sense she was right. Meeting my high school buddy and her terrified, agoraphobic mother really drilled it in.
*Sat watching TV as Walter Cronkhite announced Jonestown and said, "they are starting to commit suicide." He had a look of shocked horror as though facing a situation for which there was no precedent. (There was not)
In college, in one of our psychology classes, the professor arranged for a man to come visit us. He had survived Jonestown only because he was in the US on a business errand for Jones. This man lost his wife, children and grandparents.
I asked him how we could prevent getting involved with something like Jones church.
All the man could advise was, "You cant ever follow a human being. You have to follow God."
I remember my heart sinking, and thinking to myself, but that is why people got involved with Jones in the first place. I didnt have the heart to say anything, because the gentleman had already been through so much. But I didnt forget this, either.
*In graduate school, our department chairman was a graduate of Erhard Seminars Training (EST) [www.google.com] kept bugging us graduate students to do it. Fortunately none of us had the time or money to do it, so he couldnt single out anyone for favoritism. But he did let our favorite adminstrator go, and to this day she suspects it was because she refused to do EST. I also noticed that despite taking EST, the department chairman allowed himself to be pushed around by the academic dean and let the dean shit on one of the students and failed to intervene. So, EST only made this guy feel transformed. It turned him only into one more salesman for EST. It didnt give him courage where he needed it---looking to the well being of the students in his care.
EST,w ith some modifications is still around today, but under the name of Landmark Education.
*I got emotionally entangled with a Christian spiritual director and this happened despite my NOT wanting to get into a cultic set up. This was 1983. I'd read Snapping, yet it didnt cover the kind of situation I was vulnerable for. This guy was not trained to function as a counselor. Worse, it re enacted the fucked up stuff that went on between me and my father.
*A friend of mine who happens to be in Alcoholics Anonymous and who sponsors many people told me she got a phone call from a jail. That call was from an AA friend she had sponsored. This man, as part of doing his 12 step work, had sought ways to cultivate prayer and meditation and got involved with a group called Fellowship of Friends (which is listed in the Culteducation.com archives).
[www.google.com] group took his money, messed with his head and kicked him out. He had to hitchhike back home, resumed drinking and landed in jail. Which is where he called my pal. (This same pal was the one who was fired from the administrative job in our department possibly because she refused to do EST)
Under the influence of this man and also as part of my own belated adolescence in my twenties (which I dont wish on anyone) I got involved with the peace movement during the years of Reagans policies in Central America. I converted to Roman Catholicism. And....I actually wanted to be a martyr. Kid you not. Scares me today. Am very lucky the people I associated with were not into violence. Am not sure what I would have done if I'd kept company with people who were capable of planning violence. When John Walker Lindh hit the news, I could relate to him, though not approve of his actions.
When you are young and idealistic and crave an outlet, you are so exquisitely influenceable. Intelligence and social sophistication are not protection--none at all.
**During this time I had a lot of personal hardships and felt brittle inside. My core self was taking a pounding and I may have risked what therapists call a narcissistic collapse. So I went through several years of being a rather hard ass neo conservative christian, but only in terms of theology. Politically I stayed liberal. The one thing that kept me from going all the way in was I knew and loved so many friends in the gay lesbian community that I just could not buy into any church teachings about homosexuality being wrong. My heart just couldnt take that. Gradually, as I stablized and healed from the hardships, I stopped being such a tight ass.
**Spent some time in a church that was in communion with Rome but used Orthodox liturgy. Parish was a volatile mix of people who were liberal and often gay and loved the art and spirituality of Russian Orthodox Christianity and people who were ultra right wing, thought Clinton was evil, hated the changes of Vatican II but didnt want to break with Rome. I saw one family using the church in a cultic manner. The father had been kicked out of many other parishes because he had gone right up to strangers standing in line to receive Communion and and presumed to interrogate them about their Catholic bona fides.
That caused me to see how complex matters were. A church could have some members who were balanced and have others who treated it with the rigidity of a cult. I remember thinking, "WHat a complex task for a researcher. IF you interviewed just the X's, you'd think our parish is a cult. If you interviewed only someone like me or Benny, you'd think we were liberal. A representative sample is needed to figure out how a group actually ticks."
**I left Catholicism and Christianity because of theodicy. Drove me crazy that people could live good lives as my stepfather did, do a multitude of generous things, yet die bitterly miserable with themselves. I refused to accept this as one of the Great Mysteries. I ended up feeling like I was making excuses for God the way other people make excuses for drunken relatives or abusive spouses. I was just very, very tired. God was not a source of strength, he was someone I had to make excuses for.
**In 2002 I went to a public lecture by someone very big in the New Age scene. I wrote about it and described some of it here.
[forum.culteducation.com]
I was obsessed and began reading as much as I could about cults. I found RIck Ross's site. Soon he started the message board and I registered the first or second day the board started.
Ive seen other stuff but cannot discuss it without risking the loss of my privacy.
Things I have learned in life and also on this board:
*Some groups are layered like an onion. The outer circle members may not know the brutality and cruelty that actually goes on among the gurus inner circle. Outer circle members may be kept ignorant of quite different teachings and behaviors followed by inner circle members.
*Groups with an elitist or esoteric perspective may feel quite entitled to lie to outsiders or lower ranking members. Some can argue as trolls, and have endless stamina, not caring about logical consistency, because merely keeping an argument going to support a cult gives them 'merit' or 'good karma'. Persons who are rational and care about logical consistency and dont believe in karma or merit will get tired a lot sooner than the merit trolls.
* I have found out that people can be decades long members of cults (inmates) yet not appear zombie like or in any way abnormal. They can even function with distinction in society. They have learned to compartmentalize and give a reassuring, mainstream appearance to those outside their cult, or to lower ranking members. They will only display the full extent of their subservience in private with the leader who is recipient of their projections and manipulates their inner lives.
* The term lovebombing has a rather cartoonish ring. Conjures up images of gooey flatterers babbling "I love you I love you I love you."
NO. I would call it psychological operations. The most effective lovebombing is to tap fantasies hopes and dreams or fears that a person doesnt even know he or she has.
I got lovebombed at a respectable Buddhist retreat center. The retreat co leader told me I should become a Buddhist writer. I was immensely flattered because I felt like a failure in life, and I did enjoy writing. But I said I had not done enough meditation practice and had not taken the precepts.
This person repeatedly said with condescending smile that she didnt want to hear excuses. I had a strange feeling she got off on playing talent scout.
For a day or two I had my head in the clouds. Then I remembered the harm I incurred from the christian spiritual director who was not trained as a counselor and thought, I dont want to risk doing what I am not trained for. There are plenty of other excellent Buddhist writers out there who are qualified.' Later I learned this particular retreat leader was involved with unsavory people and her mentor had recruited someone who later went on to a disastrous career as a guru.
But this recruiter really got her hand into my pants, tickling my hopes and dreams.
That, friends is how lovebombing really works.
So...thats part of why I am here. This joint is also a place where I can share things I have read if any of it seems helpful to a discussion.
Umberto Eco's essay got me because of my ongoing interest in Nazism and my worries about it coming back.
But I have been amazed to see how many cults have this same anatomy, too.
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
StillTaitenAndProud
()
Date: September 20, 2013 01:02AM
Fascinating! No wonder you are such a wealth of sources and information! Thanks for that :)
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: September 20, 2013 04:23AM
Dear TaitenandProud, no problem.
I have a magpie mind. (Sounds classier than saying 'dustbin mind!')
So far, Ive not gotten entangled in any multilevel marketing programs, so I dont visit those threads. And for all the time I spent in churches, I very rarely chat up the people on the destrutive churches discussions.
Though...he he..my aunt's brother, who is in construction work, told a story from when he was young and working as a journeyman.
One day, after work, 'George' accepted a lift from one of the older workers, and got into his truck for the drive back into town.
Then, the driver slowed and parked the truck at the side of the road. This seemed a bit strange.
After an awkward pause, the older man took a deep breath. "George", he said, looking grave, "its time for us to...talk."
George was scared. What was this going to be? A sexual situation? An invitation to come to Jesus?
Solemnly, amid unbearable tension, the fellow got the words out. "Its time for us to talk...about...Shaklee".
George was trapped in the truck with this guy. They were a long way from town.
"What did you do?" I asked.
George smiled. "The guy was all wound up, cuz he thought I'd argue back.
"Last thing he expected was for me not to fight.
"Soooo...I just sat there nodding my head and smiling at everything he said. Made sure to make no promises and not sign anything.
"And I made sure never to be alone with or accept any rides from him again."
'"Ha!" I replied. "You did something like what my cat did, when I tried to get my cat to wear a harness and walk on a leash. She hated it. She went limp, so limp, she nearly oozed out of the harness. So I gave trying to make her wear it."
So.....thats my one MLM story.
Citations on the company, here.
[www.google.com]
[www.google.com]
[www.google.com]
This is a multilevel marketing set up MLM, like Amway.
I have a magpie mind. (Sounds classier than saying 'dustbin mind!')
So far, Ive not gotten entangled in any multilevel marketing programs, so I dont visit those threads. And for all the time I spent in churches, I very rarely chat up the people on the destrutive churches discussions.
Though...he he..my aunt's brother, who is in construction work, told a story from when he was young and working as a journeyman.
One day, after work, 'George' accepted a lift from one of the older workers, and got into his truck for the drive back into town.
Then, the driver slowed and parked the truck at the side of the road. This seemed a bit strange.
After an awkward pause, the older man took a deep breath. "George", he said, looking grave, "its time for us to...talk."
George was scared. What was this going to be? A sexual situation? An invitation to come to Jesus?
Solemnly, amid unbearable tension, the fellow got the words out. "Its time for us to talk...about...Shaklee".
George was trapped in the truck with this guy. They were a long way from town.
"What did you do?" I asked.
George smiled. "The guy was all wound up, cuz he thought I'd argue back.
"Last thing he expected was for me not to fight.
"Soooo...I just sat there nodding my head and smiling at everything he said. Made sure to make no promises and not sign anything.
"And I made sure never to be alone with or accept any rides from him again."
'"Ha!" I replied. "You did something like what my cat did, when I tried to get my cat to wear a harness and walk on a leash. She hated it. She went limp, so limp, she nearly oozed out of the harness. So I gave trying to make her wear it."
So.....thats my one MLM story.
Citations on the company, here.
[www.google.com]
[www.google.com]
[www.google.com]
This is a multilevel marketing set up MLM, like Amway.
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: September 20, 2013 04:25AM
Finally, I love being around people emancipating themselves and describing how they did it and still do it.
I get grumpy and depressed sometimes. Being in good company is a big help.
I get grumpy and depressed sometimes. Being in good company is a big help.
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
StillTaitenAndProud
()
Date: September 20, 2013 06:03AM
Ho ho - that reminds me of my first husband's step-grandparents. They were all about the Shaklee, too. They'd tell us about how, when they had diarrhea, they'd use the Shaklee "Herbees" (not sure how it's really spelled - don't care), which is a laxative! INSANE!!Quote
Solemnly, amid unbearable tension, the fellow got the words out. "Its time for us to talk...about...Shaklee".
The story of the ride home reminds me - on this one message board years back, there was a real bible banger - a fundamentalist Evangelical Christian who went by the handle of Rachael21 or something. Her husband, Preacher Bob, had targeted her when she was in the psych ward of the mental hospital for being suicidal. She was a lesbian at this point, you see. Preacher Bob would come in and browbeat her on matters theological until she was weeping hysterically, and then leave. I can't imagine what incompetent personnel that mental hospital hired who would permit these sorts of predatory antics. Well, she got out, converted to Christianity, and they married. Lived out in the middle of NO-where, apparently - nearest neighbor was over 2 miles away.
Well, Preacher Bob would go out in the evenings. For *hours* at a time. He'd say that he was cruising around, looking for stranded motorists that he could "rescue" and, while they were trapped in his car, "witness" to. When they would go out to eat, she would drive separately and meet him, and then they'd leave separately - she to go home and him out who knows where, the supposed knight in shining armor devoting himself to the altruistic goal of helping the needy (and browbeating THEM for Jesus, no doubt). That was how she thought of it, at any rate.
I observed that, while he was indeed going out cruising, it wasn't for stranded motorists! Think about it - how often do you see a stranded motorist by the side of the road? Don't most people have cell phones and, if not roadside assistance plans, FRIENDS or relatives they would call for rescue? Why would anyone just randomly drive around hoping to find a stranded motorist? That's just bizarre! What a waste of time! And at night??
But if he was REALLY hoping to find...something else, well, then, it all starts to make sense, now doesn't it??
Say, did you see "Harold and Kumar Go To White Castle," the scene with? Here it is, if you're in the mood for a giggle: [www.youtube.com] [www.youtube.com] [www.youtube.com] <-- Okay, that douchebag who uploaded that clip put something stupid on the end, but here's what SHOULD have happened: [www.youtube.com] It's missing the scene where they enter the house, wondering what Freakshow's wife might look like, and she's playing the organ with her back to them, and when she turns around, she's a babe, but you can see that :)
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