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STaP - based on your last post, Senseless certainly could be a rebirth of Nichiren; " . . . and Nichiren was an intolerant bigot who wanted the government to make him a superstar." Japan was Nichiren's world, so in effect, there's little difference between him and The Round One - the latter wants to be recognized by the world. Got hubris?

heh heh Ain't it da troot?? Didn't Fatman want to be Prime Minister or something? I know he wanted the entire country of Japan to be his religion only...and with him in charge, of course. Delusions of grandeur - really not an attractive characteristic for a Buddha, right?

Anyhow, that reminds me...since the original post has gone bye-bye, I am going to again clarify about Nichiren's so-claimed "foretelling the future" about the Mongol invasion. Remember how he threatened the government that, if it did not EXECUTE the leaders of the more successful Buddhist sects, burn their temples to the ground, and make it a CRIME to give them donations, the Mongols would invade? Some accounts put his "prophecy" at 1253; the SGI puts it at 1260, with the submission of the Rissho Ankoku Ron to the government, which I think is a fair date. 1253 was when Nichiren first publicly announced that chanting NMRK was the proper practice and established his religion - I've never heard that event tied to the o-so-great "prophecy." The Mongol near-invasion wasn't until 1274, 21 or 14 years later (depending on which date you choose), though the SGI sheeple count the Mongol emissaries bringing a letter formally requesting that Japan submit in 1268 as "fulfillment" of that "prophecy." I'm sorry, but I don't count receiving a letter as being the equivalent of "foreign invasion"!

Turns out that was a gimme. Genghis Khan invaded Japan's powerful neighbor China in 1209, 1227, and 1234. I'm only counting the invasions before Nichiren's "prophecy." The Mongols had invaded neighboring Korea in a series of invasions starting in 1231. In 1253, the Mongols destroyed the Tibetan Kingdom of Dali. There's a dandy animated map by year at [en.wikipedia.org] - as you can see, by 1227, the Mongols controlled the entire continental coastline nearest Japan. The noose was tightening; of course Japan would be next. Here's another map showing the Mongol military movements between 1207 and 1227. Countries on the mainland were falling right and left - EVERYONE would have been aware of this, especially the political leaders. THIS was the top news - for DECADES! The Mongols were threatening and attacking EVERYONE!

Korea is closest to Japan; the Mongol demands for submission started there in 1225. Mongol invasions of Korea started in 1231; raids continued until 1250. In 1251, the Mongols repeated their demands of submission, invading again in July, 1253. They could now see Japan's house from there.

Considering that letters demanding submission *always* preceded invasion, sometimes by years, and Japan had received no such letter yet, it was clearly only a matter of time. The Mongols were coming - and everyone knew it! THAT's why nobody took Nichiren's "prophecy" seriously! EVERYBODY ALREADY KNEW THAT!!

Notice you never hear THOSE details within the SGI. No, Nichiren's little master-of-the-obvious moment is treated like some great supernatural "gift of the Mystic Law" - HA HA HA!! Oh, yes, if you chant diligently and do just as Nichiren (and Toadface Ikeda) says, you too can claim the title of Captain Obvious!!

And, in the end, the Mongols never ended up actually invading after all! Japan was never at any time in its history a Mongol vassal state. It's always been Japan. NICHIREN WAS WRONG! HIS PROPHECY FAILED!! He predicted that, unless the government did as he said, the Mongols would invade! A letter is hardly an invasion, yet that's supposed to be counted as "fulfillment of prophecy"??? That means pretty much *anything* will do >eye roll<

And that government ended eventually, as all governments do. That entire form of government ended! Did that silly old primitive-minded Nichiren really think that mumbling magic slogans and making him, Nichiren, a superstar would make the rulers and their dynasty immortal and stop the march of progress??

All it took was a quick search on "mongol invasions japan" and whaddyaknow - there was a whole Wikipedia page about it! OH SNAP!! [en.wikipedia.org]

Actually, "mongol conquests" was even more enlightening: [en.wikipedia.org]

You can look up "mongol invasion korea", too, and get [en.wikipedia.org]

From the SGI site:

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On the sixteenth day of the seventh month, 1260, Nichiren submitted a treatise titled On Establishing the Correct Teaching for the Peace of the Land (Rissho Ankoku Ron) to HojoTokiyori, the retired regent who was nevertheless the most influential man in the Kamakura shogunate. In that work, he attributed the disasters ravaging the country to slander of the correct teaching and belief in false teachings. In particular, he criticized the dominant Nembutsu school. Of the three calamities and seven disasters described in the sutras, he predicted that the two disasters that had yet to occur—internal strife and foreign invasion—would befall the nation without fail if it persisted in supporting misleading schools. He urged that the one vehicle teaching of the Lotus Sutra be embraced immediately.

In the second month of that year (1272), Nichiren's prediction of internal strife came true when HojoTokisuke, an elder half brother of Regent HojoTokimune, made an abortive attempt to seize power. [www.sgilibrary.org]

So a dozen years...it's like they say in Fight Club, "On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero." So the most accurate prophecy is the one that's inevitable, right?

Oh, gee. Predicting "internal strife" to the ruling Hojo clan, when the Hojos had seized control of the government in 1199 and...I'll let Encyclopedia Britannica tell the tale:

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By 1247, when members of the house and clan held, through appointment, dominion over half the provinces of Japan, Hojo rule tended to become authoritarian, and the regency was run not from its titular office but from Hojo headquarters as a family council. This assumption of power, beginning with Tokimasa, was not difficult because the armed class did not wish to relinquish the peace, profits, and stability the bakufu (military government) had brought it. They were reluctant to permit the heir Yoriie, a youth of uncertain temper and strong appetites, to become shogun. Yoriie attempted the murder of Tokimasa but was himself exiled and killed. When the remaining heir, Sanetomo, was murdered (1219), the last impediment to Hojo domination was gone. The final accretion of Hojo power came in 1221, when the emperor Go-Toba raised the Taira of western Japan against the Hojo. The revolt (Jokyu no ran) not only failed but in its failing the Hojo were able to confiscate thousands of estates and place them in the hands of landless adherents and friends. Many landless warriors, created by the litigious system of family inheritance in Japan, had little love for the Hojo but less for hunger and dispossession. Their number, as it rose and fell, was an indication of the stability of the bakufu, and until the late 13th century the Hojo kept their numbers small. The first three Hojo regencies—Yoshitoki, who succeeded Tokimasa in 1205, was murdered in 1224 and replaced by his son Yasutoki (1183–1242)—were the apex of capable feudal rule in Japan. Dependable cadastral records were created in 1222–23. In 1232 a brief and workable code (Joei shikimoku) for the conduct and regulation of the armed class in a feudal society was promulgated. Slowly, between 1221 and 1232, the simple military system of Yoritomo was transformed by the Hojo family into a capable private government.

Essentially, this meant maintaining a cordial but careful relationship with the court and its complex system of reigning, retired, and cloistered emperors and with the great aristocracy of Kyoto, who wished an end to the bakufu system. A Hojo commander and garrison were stationed in Kyoto, but the property, revenues, and ceremonials of the Imperial family and nobility were protected. The powerful Buddhist clergy were kept in hand by strict auditing of their accounts. (Gee, imagine that) The vassals of Hojo; were kept solvent, peaceful, and apart from the court. The peasant was protected in his freedom and tenure. The regency drew its income from the Hojo estates, which comprised nearly the whole of the Kanto. The family adhered firmly to Yoritomo’s dictum that the simple warrior life would best preserve this class from the pervasive decadence of the Kyoto aristocracy. Yasutoki died in 1242 and was succeeded by the Hojo regents Tsunetoki (1224–46) in 1242, Tokiyori (1227–63) in 1246, and Tokimune (1215–84) in 1256. Tokimune’s regency was the last stable and powerful epoch of the Hojo.

Wow, another Master of the Obvious moment for Nichiren! Yippee!! Tokimune had only recently come to power, so Nichiren tried to hook him in with every leader's greatest fear - a threat of internal strife, which Japan had been experiencing for decades already - through Nichiren's entire lifetime thus far. In fact, Tokimune's government proved "stable and powerful" - hardly what we'd expect from an "internal strife" threat! But poor Nichiren could not predict that the typical internal strife that had been symptomatic of Japan's government thus far would settle down.

Nichiren just wasn't any good at all at predicting the future!

Gee, predicting "internal strife" in feudal Japan is about as difficult as predicting rain in Seattle *eye roll* How could Nichiren claim that "internal strife" hadn't happened yet? It was apparently ongoing!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2013 11:21PM by StillTaitenAndProud.

tsuki you still out there?

I'm wondering what happened to Hitch! Did a Gakkai goon squad take him out???

I wish we could put together a handbook of all the documented evidence that absolutely blows the whole nichiren/sgi bullshitography out of the water. I would be happy to stalk the parking garage in downtown Philly on the first Sunday of every month and put them under windshield wipers.

My former WD leader in Las Cruces and I have kept in touch since I moved from the area in 09; originally it was on a friendly/friendly level, but late last year she gave me some unsolicited guidance that was just flat-out stupid. Based on "making the impossible possible," she suggested that I start chanting to have the contract I was working on extended beyond 12/31. That date was a done deal from the start, there was never any suggestion of a whisper of a hint of a suggestion that it would ever be extended for heartbeat longer. It was ludicrous. It was like chanting to have your appendix grow back. I kind of distanced myself after that and, while we still exchanged cute animal or landscape emails, she still sent me the odd sgi event email. Most recently, it was some kind of BS encouragement about 11/18, and that encouragement was from ick-eda's alter-ego shit-itchy. I had been pretty ambivalent about telling her I'd left the org . . . it just really didn't seem to matter, but her most recent org update made me realize that I want absolutely no news about what's going on in the bowels of senseless-world. I thanked her, but politely asked her not to send me any more emails about sgi and told her I'd left the org some months ago. Her response was pretty direct "what happened?"

It took me a day or two to put together a response; I really don't mind talking about it (or writing about it, obviously), but she's a sharp lady, a good human being, and I have no reason to deliberately hurt her feelings or insult her. She believes what she believes and is happy doing so. My email to her was numerous lengthy paragraphs long. I wish I would've had the info on the Mongols before I sent it to her! Anyway, I'm curious to see what her reply will look like.

And yeah - where'd tsuki and hitch get off to? Did the nike-alien people scoop you away?

Well, I think the biggest is the one I went into some detail about a coupla posts up. Nichiren's "prophecy" that the country of Japan would suffer the calamity of foreign invasion if the rulers did not do as Nichiren said, which is claimed as "proof" that Nichiren was the first and best Buddha, well, that failed. I'm sorry, but receiving hate mail does not an invasion make! The Mongols never even landed on Japan (though they tried). And the fact that "acts of Amaterasu" - the big storm that interrupted the Mongols' plan - well, that can be claimed by ANYONE: "*I* made that happen with my intense recitation of the Nembutsu!" "*I* made that happen through my Zen practice!" Etc. etc. Anyone can take credit for it.

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The eminent Buddhist priests of our time seem to be of one mind with those who slander the Law. In fact, they do not even understand the true meaning of the teachings of their own schools. It is certain that, if they should receive an imperial command or instructions from the government authorities to offer prayers in an effort to avert the evils that beset the nation, they would only make the Buddhas and deities angrier than they are already, and then the nation could not help but face ruin. [www.sgilibrary.org]

And yet, the "Buddhist deities" intervened in the Mongols' planned invasion and stopped it by raising up a big ol' storm! So those "eminent Buddhist priests" could justifiably claim that their prayers protected the nation of Japan - Nichiren had predicted that, no matter what, Japan would be invaded and destroyed by a foreign power.

THIS NEVER HAPPENED.

The fact is, apparently even the gods of the natural world were not willing to allow Nichiren's prediction to come to pass. It was THAT MUCH of a total failure. Wishful thinking, and a most shameful example of it - imagine, wishing death and destruction on everyone because they won't kiss your ass?? What a turd!

The Gakkai claims that the arrival of the letter that validated Nichiren's "prophecy," but as I pointed out earlier, the most ignorant, isolated commoner would have heard enough by that point to make that prediction. It was a no-brainer, like predicting a sunny day in Southern California. That's the norm, if you're not aware O_O

Here's how the Gakkai frames it:

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While in exile, the Daishonin’s prophecy of internal strife, made in his On Establishing the Correct Teaching for the Peace of the Land, had materialized in the form of a power struggle within the ruling Hojo clan, and with the Mongols now readying their forces for attack, the fulfillment of his second prophecy, that of foreign invasion, seemed imminent. [www.sgilibrary.org]

"Seemed" being the operative word here O_O

But even what looks like a sure thing sometimes fails to come to pass, eh? And I already explained that Japanese politics had been unstable and full of conflict for decades - Nichiren never suspected that things would settle down and that the then-current government would prove stable and effective. ANOTHER fail for that "original Buddha" - really, it's an insult to the REAL Buddha to put Nichiren in that company. Just like putting ol' Toadface FattyMcFatFat Ick-Eata in there.

There's more:

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These disasters, as I stated in my memorial, were omens signifying that our country would in the end be destroyed by a foreign nation. [www.sgilibrary.org]

Objectively, demonstrably, factually WRONG! IT NEVER HAPPENED! Nichiren was completely mistaken in his analysis! He was unable to turn the situation to his advantage, probably because no one was impressed with his scaremongering. The Mongols had been invading other countries right and left, all around Japan, for almost a century by this point. Who wouldn't see Japan as a potential target, just like all the other countries in the region??

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Now, nine years after I presented my memorial [to the lay priest of Saimyo-ji], in the intercalary first month of this year, the official letter arrived from the great kingdom of the Mongols. The events that have occurred match the predictions made in my memorial as exactly as do the two halves of a tally.

Gosh, really??? So the arrival of a letter now equals "foreign invasion"??? Have you lost your mind??? Are you THAT desperate to be able to claim "I WAS RIGHT!!"?? Nobody believed you, and nobody thought the events proved you right. Idiot.

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These disasters, as I stated in my memorial, were omens signifying that our country would in the end be destroyed by a foreign nation.

It wasn't O_O

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When I, Nichiren, observed the great earthquake of the Shoka era, and the great wind and famine that occurred in the same era, as well as the major outbreak of epidemics that took place in the first year of the Shogen era, I made a prediction, saying, “These are omens indicating that this country of ours will be destroyed by a foreign nation.” I may seem to be praising myself for having made such a prediction, but if our country should be destroyed, it would most certainly mean the destruction of the Buddhist teachings as well. [www.sgilibrary.org]

Yes, retard, you're praising yourself, and that's a shameful and dishonorable thing. What a lowlife. And Japan was NEVER "destroyed by a foreign nation"! THIS is a fact that the SGI does not wish to address.

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I, Nichiren, understand the steps that should be taken to remedy the situation. Other than the sage of Mount Hiei, I am the only person in all of Japan who does. Just as there are not two suns or two moons, so two sages are not to be found standing side by side. If these words of mine are false, then may I be punished by the ten demon daughters who protect the Lotus Sutra that I embrace.

Well, golly, Nichiren, how'd you enjoy that punishment? Am I correct in suspecting BDSM??

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The Daishonin explains the circumstances that led to his writing of On Establishing the Correct Teaching for the Peace of the Land eight years earlier and points out that the arrival of the Mongol emissaries with a demand for allegiance substantiates the prophecy of foreign invasion that he had made in that treatise. [www.sgilibrary.org]

No, I'm sorry, but emissaries requesting such and such is not an "invasion." No one in his right mind would say that's the equivalent of an "invasion." That's just STOOPID!

The prophecy failed. Yet the nation continued - independent, non-ruined. Apparently, despite his obvious hubris and narcissism, Nichiren did NOT, in fact, "understand the steps that should be taken to remedy the situation"! He was completely deluded, and actually a rather base, petty, self-aggrandizing, greedy, grasping, and deluded individual. Way to pick a champion, guys! *eye roll*

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If you do not heed my advice, you will surely regret it later.

Wow, threats now, Nichiren? Guess what? Nobody regretted ignoring your stupid ploy to seize government endorsement and at the same time get others to KILL your rivals and BURN the other temples to the ground! Nichiren should have been ashamed of himself, but he was simply too deluded and caught up in his own plotting to grasp that simple concept.

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In the tenth month of the same year, Nichiren Daishonin sent letters to eleven high-ranking political and religious leaders, including the regent Hojo Tokimune, the Zen priest Doryu of Kencho-ji, and the True Word Precepts priest Ryokan of Gokuraku-ji, pointing out that the predictions in his On Establishing the Correct Teaching were now being fulfilled and demanding the opportunity to demonstrate the validity of his teachings in public religious debate. He received no response to his letters.

Yeah, that's because they were all laughing their asses off at that stupid bumpkin priest who was so full of himself!

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I wish I would've had the info on the Mongols before I sent it to her! Anyway, I'm curious to see what her reply will look like.

Oh, she'll reply! And THEN you'll have your chance! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Hey, check out Richard Causton's attempts to spin the facts into something they're not:

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Hojo Tokiyori never replied to the Rissho Ankoku Ron, but its presentation to the government marked the beginning of a lifetime's persecution for Nichiren Daishonin, persecution which abated to some degree only as his predictions began to come true: of internal revolt in 1272, when there was an attempted coup within the Hojo clan and serious fighting broke out in Kyoto and Kamakura; and the prediction of foreign invasion when the Mongols under Kublai Khan attacked Japan, once in 1274 and again in 1281.

It might be objected that since the Mongols were not successful in their invasion attempts, and neither was the conspiracy to unseat the regent in 1272, Nichiren Daishonin's predictions in reality proved false. This is to view them from too short a perspective, though. The Kamakura shogunate was eventually forcibly unseated in 1333, and thereafter, Japan suffered periodic bouts of bloody and bitter civil war. [tinyurl.com]

...as did every other government known to humankind in the history of the world. It's like that Fight Club quote: "Given a long enough timeline, everybody's chances of survival drop to zero." Something that tends to happen will eventually happen, sooner or later, right? Nichiren died in 1282, so BOTH unsuccessful Mongol invasion ATTEMPTS happened within his lifetime. He KNEW he was a failure. And that bit about the Kamakura shogunate? That was 51 YEARS AFTER NICHIREN DIED!!

Sorry, but that's not a prediction worthy of the title. Oh, but it gets better! Just LOOK at THIS!!

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The fulfilment of the predictions of foreign invasion had to wait somewhat longer, until the occupation of Japan by the Allied.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!! So we're supposed to think that the reason Japan got nuked and occupied at the end of World War II was because some minor government official failed to send a thank-you note to some nobody priest SEVEN HUNDRED YEARS EARLIER????

That's retarded. No offense meant to people with mental disabilities.

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I have never seen Tsukushi, nor do I know anything about the barbarians [of the west]. Yet the prediction I made in light of the entire body of sutras [concerning foreign invasion] has already come true. [www.sgilibrary.org]

He was clearly delusional. He probably thought he'd invented kung fu, too.

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In the tenth month, the Daishonin wrote to eleven leaders - including Regent Hojo Tokimune and other Kamakura shogunate officials, and priests of major Kamakura temples such as Ryokan of Gokuraku-ji and Doryo of Kencho-ji - calling for a public religious debate between himself and representatives of the leading Buddhist schools. Neither the leaders of the Buddhist schools nor the government responded in good faith to this request. Instead, government officials regarded the Daishonin and his followers as a threat and considered ways to suppress their activities. [www.scribd.com]

Regarded him and his followers as pests, more likely. It's like that ponce William Lane Craig trying to browbeat and shame Richard Dawkins into having a debate with him. No, Richard Dawkins isn't interested. Get over it. As Dawkins said, "That would improve his resume, but it wouldn't do a thing for mine." Ha! Likewise, giving Nutty Nichiren a public forum, knowing full well that, no matter what happens, he's going to insist that he "won", well, that's a HUGE waste of time!

The problem with a prediction is that, unless it's fulfilled quickly and obviously, how is anyone to remember that, oh, wait, THIS is what that guy who's been dead for 50+ years must have been talking about! Who?? Who cares??

Oh, THIS is rich!

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Nichiren Daishonin identified Ryokan withthe third of the “three powerful enemies”of theLotus Sutra and its practitioners.Based on “Encouraging Devotion,”the thirteenth chapter of the sutra, Miao-lo of the Chinese T’ien-t’ai school defined three kinds of enemies,the third being “arrogant false sages.”This refers to those whose outward appearance is that of wise and venerable priests but who are inwardly attached to selfish desire and craving. Using their status as high-ranking clergy, they develop close ties with people in power and conspire to persecute those who spread the correct Buddhist teaching. [www.scribd.com]

By that definition, Nichiren was one of the "three powerful enemies"! He was an "arrogant false sage," who pretended to be wise and to be able to foretell the future - but he couldn't. He attempted to curry favor with high-ranking and powerful government figures, and tried to convince them to BEHEAD the leaders of all the other Buddhist sects and to burn all the other Buddhist temples to the ground! It didn't work - they didn't pay any attention to him and ignored *all* his stupid advice. And all his attempts to put himself into the spotlight betray his "inward attachment to selfish desire and craving."

It's like how ol' Toadface Dai-Sucky keeps trying to make himself into an international superstar. "Look - I'm *JUST AS GOOD* as Dr. Martin Luther King and Gandhi!" "I'll just invite President Clinton for one of my time-wasting 'dialogues' - of COURSE he'll say 'Yes'! I'm just THAT important!" "Let's see - where else can I buy another honorary doctorate from?" "Why, oh WHY won't they award ME the Nobel Peace Prize?? I'm more deserving than ANYONE!!"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2013 11:49AM by StillTaitenAndProud.

There is a saying: "A broken clock is right twice a day" -- so long as its of the old fashioned dial variety.

That whole Ghandi/King thing was one of those issues that made me really look harder at my involvement with this psycho org. I turned 10 in 1961, so I was at an age to start being conscious of the world outside of lil ol' me at about the time King was becoming an active social force. I remember the hatred that was directed towards him (MD, and particular Baltimore, were ever southern-minded). It scared me to think of the danger he was in every time he stepped out the door. Gandhi, too, was a speck on my brain. That these men put their personal comfort and safety aside to actively work for the welfare of others was mind-blowing to me. I said in an earlier post that the most discomfort Senseless ever suffered was a late meal . . . the hubris (is there a stronger word?) that this man displays is disgusting.