Quote
The Anticult
From memory, in a 330 page thread, there was only ONE time one person, probably in a moment of being emotionally upset, said something like that, that obviously no one condones!
That goes with saying, to anyone who has read a thread like this.

So why keep going back to one single thing, that one person said?
They said it, so address it to them. One person made that comment, so address them specifically about it.

Its not about the thread in general, or the hundreds of pages of specific example of SGI malfeasance.
Its a mistake to overgeneralize the thread in general, when only the person who said it should be addressed for the comment.
Its a public comment area, not a 'groupthink' situation like a cult, where everyone strives to think in a similar way. Of course, each person is responsible for their own comments and viewpoint.

Or report that comment to the Moderator, and they will most likely delete that comment.
There is a button that says something like 'report this comment to a moderator'.

Why distort an entire thread, from a single comment, from a single person?
Sometimes coming out of cults, some people can get angry. That is just reality.

So report that comment, and one would assume the Moderator will delete that part of it.


Sometimes people make an error of thinking that random people posting on a public forum critical of a sect are a "group", but its not. Each person is responsible for their own individual thinking and comments.

When you are claiming the "moral high ground" on any issue (as this group is), you'd better make sure your own house is order. Isn't this forum capable of governing itself? The only "distortion to the thread" occurred when the comment was made originally. There is nothing wrong with objecting to it. We all know that people read the back pages, and it will not go unnoticed. If no one speaks out against it, readers will assume that it was just fine with everyone here, which of course it is not. Is that really okay? I only wish I had spoken out sooner myself, but now that it's being aired out, why not just agree that if anything like that is said in the future, it will be be challenged?

Quote
Mitchell
Hello everybody,

I'm so glad I found this forum. I read this thread for hours yesterday and it was quite eye opening. I am married to a SGI member who was born in Japan and for the past 15 years or so has lived in the US. We have been married for a little over 2 years and it has been really good for the most part. I knew getting into this relationship that she was a member but honestly I really did not know anything about SGI. As a former member of a cult, the word of faith movement, I would have never knowingly pursued this relationship. Anyway, she really has a wonderful personality and I am finding that just like SGI, the exterior is wonderful, but the interior sparkles a little less.

I have, through the years, asked and confronted her about a few of the cultish things I've seen. The response has always been something like "I've never seen those things" and things like "It works for me and I am happy". It's really hard to argue your points against that sort of stuff, so I just let it go. All was fine until last December when our daughter was born. Wife's mom and sister came from Japan and stayed a while. Long story short, my wife had complications that led to strokes that put her in the hospital 2 days after the birth. Wife's mom got all selfish and got upset that she, wife's mom, wasn't getting enough attention. I told wife's mom to back off and my wife totally does a 180 and turns on me! Big blow up and wife's mom flies back to Japan in a huff. Good riddance. Through it all, there was an uncanny devotion to her mom as the hero and me as the villan.

I said all the above to illustrate a trust issue that suddenly appeared in the marriage. For the first time I saw that my wife was more devoted to her mom/family than me/our marriage. Not cool. So began many heated fights that mostly centered on my fear that if my wife was so devoted to her mom that what would keep my wife from taking our daughter to Japan and not returning? (Japan is a haven for child abductors)....

OK, now the SGI part of all this. The blind devotion to her mom naturally made me wonder about the devotion to the SGI. She has kept most of her SGI stuff away from me because she knows I am not on board with it. What I have learned from reading all about the SGI is that this method of separating the SGI stuff from me was working to my wife's advantage, sort of a quiet agenda operating under the radar. My lack of knowledge of SGI combined with my ignorance of the Japanese language has been used against me all this time and I am only now catching on. The shit hit the fan last night when I made the connection between my daughter's middle name and SGI. I remember my wife insisting that she REALLY wanted the name "Kalen". Sounded good enough to me, whatever. She said it meant "Lotus flower". I was like, cool, that's nice. Then it hit me that that name is essentially in the effing chant that she has been saying her whole life! Great! Now my daughter is forever branded with a cult name that has special meaning to the members. It's perfect, it's a badge to the members and at the same time perfectly innocent to non members. But it is my wife who designed this all along, and I, who unbeknownst to me, approved it. I also found out that she has been giving SGI money without my knowledge.

As today is the first sunday of the month, she was planning to go to a meeting. That's when I let it all out that I knew what it was all about. She seemed shocked that I knew so much. She said today she was to give her "experience". I asked if her story would include all the lying and the discontent at home... I was going to go and see all this craziness for myself but we stayed home and fought.

I would appreciate any guidance from you all that you care to give. I tend to be a firebrand and you all seem to have a clearer head than mine. When I finally saw that I was in a cult years ago and that I waisted so much time, money and energy, I was furious. This crap drives me nuts.

Hello, Mitchell, on this forum, pages 288, 289, 290 we discussed in detail Japanese housewives and their role in financing and supporting SGI. (Although I agree with Anticult that probably SGI gets hundreds of millions of dollars from Japanese housewives, but all those BILLIONS that SGI has look very suspicious and possibly come from some serious sources like organized crime and SGI laundries that money).

@Mitchell

Quote

As today is the first sunday of the month, she was planning to go to a meeting. That's when I let it all out that I knew what it was all about. She seemed shocked that I knew so much. She said today she was to give her "experience". I asked if her story would include all the lying and the discontent at home... I was going to go and see all this craziness for myself but we stayed home and fought.

In Japan, the women are segregated from the men in many ways. In SGI they continue that practice as well. The segregation is more than just physical. Japanese women tend to ally themselves together, and Japanese tend to gravitate to one another naturally too. That being the case then you should understand that you are not only up against SGI, but also the Japanese female mind-set as well as the Japanese ex-pat point of view as well.

I doubt that your wife has kept things quiet on the SGI front out of malice aforethought, but more as an exercise of her own freedom within her little "secret society".

In my many years married to a Japanese woman I found that she really resented my ability to speak Japanese because it robbed her of the dimension of freedom knowing and speaking another language that only select other people can understand. Often she would do what she felt was "natural" in her own Japanese perspective but that would create problems in our "american" marriage.

Indeed, SGI is all about money and control. If she is a second generation SGI person then you are also dealing with something that has a deep influence over her perspective and her values. Unlike the US, the Japanese have tradition drilled into them from birth, so I am sorry to say you are likely facing an uphill battle here.

I guess you need to be merciful as well as vigilant here... Good luck.

Wakatta1

Thanks Wakatta1. Yes, she is a second generation and maybe 3rd generation SGI. Last night we fought more and it ended with her being willing to read about the controversies and to learn about classic Buddhism, something she admits to know nothing about. I really think somewhere inside is a reasonable person who just wants the best. It is interesting to watch though; she will wax and wane from openness and listening to regurgitating blind devotion to Ikeda.

I sent her this thread and I think she began reading it last night. Also today I will stop by the bookstore and pick up a Buddhism 101 book. Any suggestions?

Mitchell, actually it might help if you did some reading for her too. Respect for parents is very ingrained in Japanese culture; my guess is you may have unintentionally committed some pretty major cultural mistakes with her Mom. Perhaps finding some books maybe written by westerners who have lived for may years in Japan, or married into Japanese families may give you some helpful information.
If you want to understand her and keep her with you, then understanding where she comes from and what the unwritten rules of her society are might help both of you.
If you want her to stay here and not go back to Japan, then my own suggestion is make sure she is happy here.Encourage her to make friends, have people who support her, do things she enjoys; all of these will help her have a life here that she will not want to leave.

Mitchell,

I think the road ahead will be very, very difficult. I am usually optimistic but the way SGI Buddhism operates, you will be viewed as The Obstacle to overcome. You are trying to break her faith in the ONLY TRUE TEACHING (LOL) and there is no other way they can view you. Wife would have to be willing to split with her mom and relatives. How likely is that? The ties of the marriage are just not strong enough.

If you don't see a major change quickly, I would consider starting whatever legal processes you can to protect your rights to be able to co-raise your daughter.

Just my two cents.

Hi Mitchell,

I hope I can help you with whatever I can based on my experience as an Asian SGI member and leader. I will start off with abit of my background.

I was a 2nd Generation SGI member and district leader. I was born into the practice and ppl from SGI should know as a "fortune baby". My mum and most of my aunties are with SGI until now. I was also a very passionate SGI YMD leader during my school days. Maybe during the school days, the SGI student division was a more naive and innocent sort of faith that really ignite passion for buddhism or maybe because I feel that I was part of a group that promote world peace and great ideas and I have wonderful friends and moments during that time.

However I have started to also "waver" in my so call "faith" in SGI when I graduated from my studies and was out in the corporate world. This maybe in part due to crazy time that I send on activities as a District Leader and also my duties to guard the SGI centers. On top of that, there are politics play in SGI meetings espeically if you are a leader. I used to feel very gutted when alot of those ppl and leaders who dont even bother to come for those duties at times and sometimes I do the duty alone myself. However I still take it with a pinch of salt as I feel that it was my responsbility not only as a leader but as a normal human being that I am supposed to keep my word and be responsible when I make a promise to do the my duty work.

During sometime in the early 2000s, I suffer from some serious back injuries but I still continue to do my duties to guard the SGI centers until I really feel that I couldnt walk much longer or contribute much longer. I decided to quit from doing my guard duties at SGI centers. As usual alot of leaders and members will come and ask me why I decide not to contribute and try to make the work load much lesser. Of course I decline politely. I was most pissed off when a senior leader comment that I should do more duties due to my back injuries and I can recover faster as a benefit with the fortune that I created from serving SGI. On top of that, some of closer SGI member friends also start to get unhappy when I can't attend some of the meet up and gatherings due to the frequent sever backpain I have. People might complain about the suffering from serious back injuries but I am actually feeling happy because I finally see some of the truth colours of SGI members and leaders. As a matter of fact, it allows me to realise that even if u are a leader/member in SGI, it doenst make you or anyone better than someone who is not in SGI. It is a flaw concept that SGI have been promoting and they are trying to build that image especially with more celebrities taking up the practice. The most important thing lies in the heart. Of course buddhism do helps you to build up the character and heart especially with chanting and belief in the lotus sutra.

For these few months lately, as I was not working and taking a break. I managed to dig up alot of information on SGI/NST gohsho forgeries as well as the fabrication of lies and the fake inscription of the Dai-Gohonzon. I have decided more or less to quit from SGI because it is not in accordance to what Nichiren Daishonin has preached and spread his buddhism with regards to the various flaw concepts. I will be doing that in a more subtle way as I am Asian and we do really have different values and cultures from Westerns. Furthermore, I maybe facing a bigger challenge from you as I will be facing my mum and aunties. But I will like you to take hope from me that I have actually managed to so call "waver" my mum faith in SGI even though she has been practising with SGI from more than 30 years. I have inplant all those information that I have digged up about SGI/NST in a subtle way and she has managed to sort of react to it in a favourable way. She has even try to ask me for more information and try to also spread some words aout SGI misdeeds to her sisters as well. I will advise you to read up more on SGI/NST as well as Nichiren Daishonin buddhism History. You can find lots of information on the net and I believe it is more than enough to refute most of the lies and forgeries that are fabricated by SGI/NST. I will also suggest that you sincerely try to chant or go to a meeting with her to find out more. Chanting is not a bad thing actually as you can read from most of the people here do chant.

Also as an Asian, I will also share some insights on the cultures with you. We do place alot of importance on filial piety especially to parents as compare to western culture. That is even more so for Asian woman that they will defintely share most of their problems and issues with their mum and sisters. Dont be dishearten or discourage because they do also place alot of importance on their own family and husband. Do try to show her more care and support and also show more understanding to her mum and sister. This will help to smoothen out alot on both yr marriage and relationships. Just calm down and entertain her mum or sister if possible. If not, just ignore them in a subtle and gentle way.

Anyway Kalen is a nice name for a daughter since it signify Lotus Flower. Do not be angry or frustrated with the name although you may think that it sounds or signify with Nam myoho renge kyo. The chanting is not specifically for SGI/NST. It is the daimoku that is revealed by Nichiren Daishonin and practiced by all Nichiren Buddhism Discples.

Touching on giving SGI money, I will advise you to leave the decision to her. Dont force or push her to give it up. Give her information on all the financial irregularities and issues that SGI have been doing in Japan and rest of the world. Guide her along and show her based on the unbiased information and reports from neutral parties. Slowly or one day she will realised. I and my mum used to contribute alot and give money to SGI too. I would say SGI has cleverly mislead or misguide their members to give "zaimu" using parables from Buddhist sutras as well as selling to members that the more you contribute, the more fortune and benefits you get. Yr wife might be thinking the more she contribute, she is bringing more fortune and benefits to your family - you and yr daughter as well. Another way is to find a real and good alternative charitable organization that really helps the needy and people and advise her to donate to the organization. That is also creating good cause and good karma. It is even better than donating to SGI because you are really contributing to a good cause and helping the people.

Lastly, I will encourage that you really try to support and help your wife to get out of SGI no matter how long it takes. Do it in a subtle,logical, rational and calm way. If you need something to calm you down or give you the extra belief or support or strength, I will suggest that you can chant Nam myoho renge kyo. It will give you the wisdom as well as the courage on how to go about doing it. At the end of the day, your family - wife and daugther are the most importan people in your lives and you wouldnt want to lose them.

If you have any issues, you can still always PM or write to me.

@Mitchell

Quote

I sent her this thread and I think she began reading it last night. Also today I will stop by the bookstore and pick up a Buddhism 101 book. Any suggestions?

As someone who was married to a 2nd generation SGI person over 20 years and eventually divorced, let me throw one or two more things in here.

1. As both yasmin and backnforth point out, the cultural pitfalls are pretty big as it relates to her family, faith and the Japanese xenophobia. At best you can hope to reason with her, however if you make it an issue of pride and force her into having to "save face" you'll lose. A compromise might work for a time but eventually you'll be back to the core issue since there isn't a lot of cultural experience for Japanese to intermingle, so eventually your "outsiderness" will be a liability (just pointing that out, no intent at criticism.)

2. Your little girl is also her daughter, and I would believe she really wants to do the right thing by her. Since she probably got a Gojukai ceremony and was brought into the faith, she sees the "right" thing to do by her daughter is the same. It's like forbidding a baptism per se.

3. Culturally, Japanese are atheist or Shinto throughout their youth and typically Buddhists in their old age. SGI is a pretty recent phenomenon. Most Japanese aren't too well versed in Buddhism, nor are they very interested in the topic until they are older in life. Similar to the US where there are a lot of "christians" who rarely attend church and essentially know nothing of the faith. Her SGI connection may simply be a familiar place to return to familiar experiences (both chanting and with other Japanese). (I was a chapter leader and my ex- didn't know very much about SGI, nor did she want to, she just did what she felt she was obliged to do by the "Japanese community" around her. Could that be a similar situ with your wife?)

4. I'd say making this about religion like SGI, putting your family into a crisis situation (including your daughter who is the innocent bystander) will definitely raise both your blood pressures and yield very little in the way of resolution - a more enlightened approach would be to seek a "middle way" and find a common ground where you both feel understood and to some extent valued. That is if you want to remain in the relationship (recommended). As an american, you are as alien to her as she is to you -

Of course, as in my own situation, some relationships just need to end, especially if there is abuse involved, however whichever way this goes, you'll probably need to get some sort of counselling before throwing in the towel.

Hmm, guess I had more than just "two things to say". Remember, the advice above is worth every penny you've paid for it.

Wakatta1



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2011 07:10AM by wakatta1.

Mitchell.

at the risk of sounding dramatic and morbid. Is this a marriage you want to continue? I would suggest getting a divorce. You're going to be seen as a "devilish function" and "obstacle." Does she do that annoying, condesending thing when you're trying to resolve something and she just ignores you, and chants?

You recieved some great advice on here. Try not to talk about the SGI anymore,but start having her research some of the corruption in the SGI.There's tons on line,take her to the temple if you have to,at least thats real Buddhism. Dig up dirt on PI,not hard,give her proof of financial stuff on here that anti cult researched,of all the money washed.

Good luck,try to get her out of this!!!! DO NOT LET YOUR DAUGHTER GET INTO THIS!!!! Fight to the end to keep her from chanting!!!


SGI leaders are brainwashed to feel superior over other members and anyone who doesn't practice,almost like they're more knowledgable, and able to handle life's problems better than others in life.They act like superior therapists sometimes. It's annoying!

The japanese leaders always give you that INSINCERE ,poor pathetic you look! They're so ignorant ,and programmed!!!JOKES ON THEM!!!

Let us know how you're doing.

Put a lock on the finances or get seperate accounts. They'll suck her into giving moe money.