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Re: Subud
Posted by: Andrew Hall ()
Date: March 13, 2016 09:47AM

I want to add some final thoughts to my last post. I think the wider issue is religious fundamentalism, taking religious teachings literally instead of allegorically or inspirationally, thinking that adhering to some magical formula will elevate you spiritually now or earn you brownie points in the next life.

I don't know if Subud is more prone to this type of thinking than other spiritual groups. There are certainly people in Subud who are fundamentalists, who literally believe what the founder wrote and said, and as a result some of them have made themselves and their families miserable, or at least have made some questionable choices in their lives. But there are also many people in Subud who are pretty balanced and who live interesting lives. They value the Subud meditation practice but it doesn't isolate them, and they have lots of friends and connections outside the Subud community.

I think my ideal spiritual teaching or spiritual path is one that empowers and encourages the individual. Subud can do that, but it is up to each person to insist on that and take advantage of it. You will sometimes run into people who think they have all the answers and are eager to tell you what to do. But they have no authority over you unless you give it to them. They are really harmless.

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Re: Subud
Posted by: Ananda ()
Date: September 21, 2016 11:07PM

Andrew you said that the results depend upon expectations. Did I expect too much or too little? What I expected was that there would be spontaneous movement and vocalizations, perhaps accompanied by a change in consciousness. None of that happened though. Nobody mentioned anything about expectations in all the years I was in Subud.

I wish that I had read this thread through from the beginning. Someone quoted from 'an ex-Latihaneer'. What the author John Elwyn Kimber wrote is that whereas some, perhaps most, have normal sensitivity to the latihan, some people have hyper-sensitivity and some have under-sensitivity. I had under-sensitivity. If I had known all of this I would probably not have joined, and I certainly wouldn't have wasted my time going to latihan for years.

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Re: Subud
Posted by: Andrew Hall ()
Date: September 22, 2016 03:51AM

Hi Amanda, I can see you feel you wasted your time "going to latihan for years" and hoping the latihan would offer you some sort of experience.

All I can offer is my own experience, which is not earth shattering by any stretch. Whether it can help you make any sense of this stuff is up to you.

By initial experiences were very brief and fleeting, small physical inklings such as a tingling in my hands, or a feeling of a warm liquid on the back of my neck. They were inconsistent and unpredictable, definitely not knock-your-socks-off stuff.

What I did notice was that if helped if the evening before, as I got ready for bed, I would say a prayer or declare my intention to surrender or open myself at latihan the next day. Then I forgot about it, but usually noticed that the latihan feeling that I did have was more pronounced.

I also noticed that it helped if I arrived early and sat quietly for 20 minutes before latihan. This allowed me to quiet myself and separate from the cares of the day. I also found it valuable to sit quietly after latihan for about 10 minutes.

After a few years, I began testing and found that standing in a latihan state and having someone ask questions seemed to work well for me. Subud people usually call this awareness testing. If you can find someone whom you trust and is willing, you might want to try it.

The questions that worked well for me usually were things that I had no resistance to.. something like "receive how the material force affects the mind".. or "receive how it would feel to have a heart as wide as the ocean".. or "receive how your father's father used to dance".. or "receive how it is to pray for your mother and father".

I also much appreciated testing what my attitude was towards some person or something, say a chore I hated to do, and then ask to receive how might or could my attitude be. Experiencing the different feelings to these two questions could be quite profound for me.

But I am talking about my own experience and I'm not sure what is appropriate for you. You feel now that you've wasted your time which is a real drag. After years of doing latihan, I still sometimes get very discouraged with my latihan. So welcome to the club. We are still human.

Sometimes, fasting can help wake us up spiritually. Have you tried that?

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