I want to add some final thoughts to my last post. I think the wider issue is religious fundamentalism, taking religious teachings literally instead of allegorically or inspirationally, thinking that adhering to some magical formula will elevate you spiritually now or earn you brownie points in the next life.

I don't know if Subud is more prone to this type of thinking than other spiritual groups. There are certainly people in Subud who are fundamentalists, who literally believe what the founder wrote and said, and as a result some of them have made themselves and their families miserable, or at least have made some questionable choices in their lives. But there are also many people in Subud who are pretty balanced and who live interesting lives. They value the Subud meditation practice but it doesn't isolate them, and they have lots of friends and connections outside the Subud community.

I think my ideal spiritual teaching or spiritual path is one that empowers and encourages the individual. Subud can do that, but it is up to each person to insist on that and take advantage of it. You will sometimes run into people who think they have all the answers and are eager to tell you what to do. But they have no authority over you unless you give it to them. They are really harmless.

Andrew you said that the results depend upon expectations. Did I expect too much or too little? What I expected was that there would be spontaneous movement and vocalizations, perhaps accompanied by a change in consciousness. None of that happened though. Nobody mentioned anything about expectations in all the years I was in Subud.

I wish that I had read this thread through from the beginning. Someone quoted from 'an ex-Latihaneer'. What the author John Elwyn Kimber wrote is that whereas some, perhaps most, have normal sensitivity to the latihan, some people have hyper-sensitivity and some have under-sensitivity. I had under-sensitivity. If I had known all of this I would probably not have joined, and I certainly wouldn't have wasted my time going to latihan for years.

Hi Amanda, I can see you feel you wasted your time "going to latihan for years" and hoping the latihan would offer you some sort of experience.

All I can offer is my own experience, which is not earth shattering by any stretch. Whether it can help you make any sense of this stuff is up to you.

By initial experiences were very brief and fleeting, small physical inklings such as a tingling in my hands, or a feeling of a warm liquid on the back of my neck. They were inconsistent and unpredictable, definitely not knock-your-socks-off stuff.

What I did notice was that if helped if the evening before, as I got ready for bed, I would say a prayer or declare my intention to surrender or open myself at latihan the next day. Then I forgot about it, but usually noticed that the latihan feeling that I did have was more pronounced.

I also noticed that it helped if I arrived early and sat quietly for 20 minutes before latihan. This allowed me to quiet myself and separate from the cares of the day. I also found it valuable to sit quietly after latihan for about 10 minutes.

After a few years, I began testing and found that standing in a latihan state and having someone ask questions seemed to work well for me. Subud people usually call this awareness testing. If you can find someone whom you trust and is willing, you might want to try it.

The questions that worked well for me usually were things that I had no resistance to.. something like "receive how the material force affects the mind".. or "receive how it would feel to have a heart as wide as the ocean".. or "receive how your father's father used to dance".. or "receive how it is to pray for your mother and father".

I also much appreciated testing what my attitude was towards some person or something, say a chore I hated to do, and then ask to receive how might or could my attitude be. Experiencing the different feelings to these two questions could be quite profound for me.

But I am talking about my own experience and I'm not sure what is appropriate for you. You feel now that you've wasted your time which is a real drag. After years of doing latihan, I still sometimes get very discouraged with my latihan. So welcome to the club. We are still human.

Sometimes, fasting can help wake us up spiritually. Have you tried that?

This from a recent article listing various celebrities currently or formerly connected with controversial/cultic groups.

[www.cheatsheet.com]

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long with their other siblings, David and Patricia Arquette were born into the Skymont Subud commune in Virginia.

[moviepilot.com]

Started in the 1920s in India*, the cult doesn’t define itself as a religion, but rather a way to communicate with God “in a different way.” The commune the Arquettes were brought up in was meant to be a social experiment and a utopia, but it lacked running water, and their parents were terribly abusive.

(Not strictly accurate: the propagator of Subud was Indonesian.

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[moviepilot.com]

About the Cult: David Arquette was born into the Skymont Subud commune in Virginia. The Subud movement was started in Indonesia in the 1920s by Muhammad Subuh Sumohadiwidjojo and it revolves around spiritual directions from "the Great Life Force."

Subud does not define itself as a teaching or a religion in itself, instead practitioners are encouraged to affiliate themselves with an existing religion such as Christianity and learn to communicate with God in a different way.

David's Experiences: The commune that David Arquette was brought up in was meant to be a social experiment and a utopia of sorts. Its isolated position meant there was no electricity, bathrooms or running water, but these problems were the least of Arquette's worries.


David and his sisters, Patricia and Rosanna really suffered at the hands of their own parents, not the Sudbud cult, but their isolated lifestyle meant they did not realize how bad their upbringing was.

All of the siblings suffered violent physical abuse at the hands of their parents and David was self-medicating with stolen alcohol and drugs from the age of four.

Dear Ananda,
It doesn't matter what you did in the latihan. Some are less inhibited than others. Its a cathartic type experience moved by a Spirit of some sort and very weird. However it looks like even though you didn't have any manifestations you BELIEVED in it. And thats the key! Subud IS a religion.(deleted - by moderator)*.

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The purpose of this message board is not to promote a specific religious and/or political viewpoint. Don't use it to preach or proselytize.

Full text of CEI forum rules here.

[forum.culteducation.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2018 01:37AM by corboy.

Dear Andrew, Hope you have left Subud by now. Its so sad you are so deluded as to stay in there.

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Its a giant ego trip.

(deleted - by moderator)*.

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The purpose of this message board is not to promote a specific religious and/or political viewpoint. Don't use it to preach or proselytize.

"so deluded"

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Vitriolic posts that personally attack people, will not be tolerated and are grounds for banning the author from this message board.

Full text of CEI forum rules here.

[forum.culteducation.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2018 01:39AM by corboy.

Dear Andrew, Hope you have left Subud by now. Its so sad you are so deluded as to stay in there. Its a giant ego trip. (deleted - by moderator)*.

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Quote

The purpose of this message board is not to promote a specific religious and/or political viewpoint. Don't use it to preach or proselytize.

Full text of CEI forum rules here.

[forum.culteducation.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2018 01:35AM by corboy.

this post was from a few years ago. But if you are still willing, I'd like to know more about Bennett's group from that time. Sorry about your father, and the circumstances of his death. I"m asking because a close friend of mine is still a close follower of Bennett and his contemporaries (though now dead) and I'm curious about the whole thing. I've read witness, Bennett's own account, but know that can't be a full account.

thanks for these insights. I've just started to try to find out about Bennett et. al. Your post is 6 years ago. Are there any new sources that give insight into the social class aspects? I'm interested because a close friend of my still follows Bennett and his contemporaries, and the remnants of their followers, and I find it all quite peculiar and definitely elitist. I started to read and did get the impression (being working class british, born in the 1950s) that this whole movement was in part about the privileged looking down on those less privileged and having a vocabulary about "mechanisms" and "sleeping" people gave a further legitimation of their privilege and less than benevolent attitudes.
Aside from any sources, I'd be interested in any other thoughts you have.

Jean ,I think you are referring to the death of my father which happened at JG Bennetts centre Coombe Springs in 1957. Bennett had just invited Subud-Bapak to come and set-up at Coombe . My father John Ross 39 years old was one of the first men to be "opened"into the latihan. He had a few days of feeling brilliant then he found himself going into a latihan state which he couldn't control.This resulted in him being nursed or imprisoned at Bennetts centre where after 3 weeks he suddenly died. The circumstances of the death were kept from the inquest. In other words Bennett with Bapaks blessing covered-up what really happened. I can tell you the full story if you make contact with me-or on this forum if its allowed. And yes, Bennetts account in Witness does not tell anything like the full story.Its fascinating because of the fact that the death occurred under the watch of the two great gurus, Bennett and Bapak. They were both there present at Coombe throughout my fathers stay ,supervising and advising on how he should be looked after.Bennett wrote a chapter about the death in the first edition of "Witness"but completely removed all mention in later editions. There was a chapter in the History of Subud but I think that has now been removed since I started investigating. My mother also wrote about it.If the full story of my fathers death had come out at the time I think Bennett and Subud would have been finished there and then.