Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: NancyB ()
Date: June 11, 2019 11:44PM

Reepicheep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> “Christians want to believe that everything the
> church does for them is for their safety and
> salvation,” he said. “That simply isn’t true, not
> right now.”
>
> [www.nytimes.com]
>
> Apparently, clergy abuse is alive and well
> everywhere. It's a wonder people go to church at
> all anymore. However, as bad as this story is, and
> as much as it reminds me of crimes reported within
> TLWF, it still doesn't sink to the level of
> organized gaslighting and systemic spiritual abuse
> that was experienced in "our group."
>
> Consider for a moment the years of sermons and
> teaching on submission, obedience, authority of
> “Christ in the flesh" and the resultant servitude
> we all endured. We doggedly listened to and
> absorbed teaching on the “work of the cross" as
> administered by narcissists who believed that the
> rest of us were placed on this earth to serve and
> please them in whatever fashion they deemed
> appropriate.
>
> The trend seems to be toward churches that are
> “safe" because of services they purchase. The one
> mentioned in this article, MinistrySafe, although
> supposedly in existence to protect children and
> families, seems to be more oriented toward
> protecting churches and ministers from lawsuits.
>
> I believe that there is an inordinate level of
> trust placed in clergy of all denominations and
> religions. For God's sake, if an attorney is paid
> by a church, that is who they work for. Don't
> believe for a moment that they have you or your
> child's best interest at heart. If something
> happens to you or your child at The Living Word
> Fellowship, don't talk to their pet attorney. Go
> straight to the police and hire your own lawyer.
>
> TLWF will spare no expense and will waste no time
> repenting for taking you down and discrediting
> you. They will leave no stone unturned in finding
> ways to destroy you and your family if they feel
> threatened. TLWF is a family business, and it
> always has been. Not your family, not God's
> family, but the Stevens, Holbrook and Hargrave
> families. It's time for you to take care of
> yourself and your loved ones because,
> unfortunately, no church will do that for you.

Excellent statement Reep. thanks

Along time ago I heard it said, "God has no grandsons".

I believe that individuals must seek God- a high-power - on their own rather than depending on another man to do it for them. We have gotten "lazy" in exercising our "faith" in a spiritual force that we don't understand that some call "god". - we have put our faith in a leader than than that still small voice deep in inside that God gave us.

We must stop trusting another man; we must stop paying an organization to do our the spiritual truth seeking in our lives and families lives.

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: NancyB ()
Date: June 11, 2019 11:53PM

Changed, thank you for re-posting
Posted by: reveal
Date: August 17, 2018

the story is an accurate portrayal of how so many I knew were treated. It is heart breaking reality of the ways we were controlled so that a few at the top could life a life of leisure like kings and queens.

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: changedagain ()
Date: June 12, 2019 12:38AM

Yes, being raised in the fellowship presents nearly insurmountable obstacles to adopting to the 'outside world.' The children are purposely insulated in order to be of use to just one particular organization, which has always revolved around a few narcissistic leaders.

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: changedagain ()
Date: June 12, 2019 12:38AM

This from DitchDiggingYasper:

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: Ditch_Digging_Yasper
Date: August 18, 2014


Thanks for the welcomes and replies everyone. I'm pretty much over my bitterness/anger toward TLWF at this point, the Cox video is more of a curiosity than anything. It sounds like it may not be worth the effort of tracking down.

One thing that's always helped me, that I've realized since leaving, is how small and insignificant TLWF really is. When I was a part of things, it always seemed like we were such a large, powerful, and important organization, but it's pretty obvious now that it's a small, fringe organization that will probably die out on it's own in a couple of decades.

Rather than anger, I feel pity for the people still in the Church, paying their tithes, taking their tinctures, and paying for their "courses" - they will continue to have their time and pocketbooks fleeced by G&M out a of a misguided sense of duty to an organization that has nothing but their own self interest in mind. I wish the time and effort could be spent on something more worthwhile, but there certainly are more harmful organizations out there.

I'm sure Shiloh University is very lucrative, since many of the "professors" are volunteers, and tuition looks pretty expensive! Maybe this will help keep the "upward flow" of cash going to G&M for a bit longer. Expensive classes to move up in a religious institution? Straight out of the L. Ron Hubbard playbook when you think about it.

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: NancyB ()
Date: June 12, 2019 01:06AM

As I study what I can to work towards healing I run across some interesting articles that I don't want to lose. so, I take the liberty of passing them on.

i don't know about you, but, I get irritated when some one call me co-pendant. I don;t think I am, but, I'm open to learning how it applies to me. There is a good list in this link that I think is worth looking at.

[pairadocks.blogspot.com]

Gas-lighted statement was made about co-dependency by an alcoholic in the walk," I learned that I have a disease. Alcoholism is a disease and YOU are CO-DEPENDENT! YOU are sicker than I am."


As I was reading this article also found something sort of un- related to co-dependency, but, goes along with the fact that JRS plagiarized and my theory that all too much crap came out of Hollywood. i think it is proof that the walk, JRS , passing the mantle on to the king and Queen of god fraud M & G was nothing but bull- shit con job cover for other perversions- my opinion may too harsh for some to take. I am only trying to piece together what the hell happened to us and why.

I don't know if dissecting the cults of the LA area will help any of us or not, but, I find it rather eyeopening - what JRS taught was bogus no matter how we felt spiritually.

Here's the quote I found intriguing. I don;t know if it will interest you or not - the article is overwhelming.

Quote:
"I grew up in Hollywood. It's no surprise to me that several large cults of human potential have flourished in soil pre-treated to ardent belief in (excessive) self esteem, black and white / all-or-nothing thinking, obsession with achievement and fame, and submission to dominating authority.

"Observed through the lens of those four concepts (aka: perfectionism, either/or dichotomism, narcissism and authoritarianism), the attachment and devotion to what some might call a self-destructive degree of co-dependence near the Soboba Indian Reservation close to San Jacinto, California (described in recent articles i"n the Los Angeles Times and The New Yorker magazine) may make a lot more sense.

"We may never really know what all it was that the founder of Hollywood's largest cult had been exposed to that empowered his seemingly messianic (and megalomanic?) quest. Read those who deconstructed the individual, family-of-origin and group dynamics of the National Socialist, Red Chinese and North Korean "thought reform" techniques that made Hitler's, Mao's and Kim's (as well as Sun Myung Moon's) cults of personality possible. (Erich Fromm, Eric Hoffer, Robert J. Lifton, Edgar Schein, Margaret Thaler, Michael Langone, et al, are listed below). "

"In so doing, it may be evident that the founder of Hollywood's Cult numero uno (who finally expired in a trailer in a tiny village in north San Luis Obispo County) had access to -- as well as a considerable grasp of -- them. And that, at least in the last half century, he was only one of several who may have gotten his or her guru chops from the folks who produced the grisly spectacles of 1933 to 1953. " [pairadocks.blogspot.com]

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: changedagain ()
Date: June 12, 2019 01:15AM

I forgot about the sunscreen incident. I guess the lesson here is that Christ in the Flesh (CITF) is not responsible for providing skin protection for volunteer workers. And if you dare ask them directly for some, you are in violation of divine order & will be rebuked...by someone down the authority chain.
Thanks Aleutian for sharing this key moment in TLWF history :)

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: Aleutian
Date: January 09, 2019 09:12PM


I recently recalled a time I was volunteering working on ¨G and M´s¨ luxury home on Oahu in Hawaii. It was a hot summer day, and I didn't bring any sunscreen.

I had the nerve to ask for some. After all, I was working for free. Instead of them helping me, they called for their ¨handler¨ at the time to help me. He was quite flustered that I didn't ask him first and chewed me out, telling me to follow "divine order."

It was a good light-bulb moment for me. After that I said "F%$K this" haha.

Another light-bulb moment occurred when I watched the Netflix documentary "Holy Hell". I would highly suggest it to people in this group that are fascinated by the social intricacies of "cultish groups".

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: NancyB ()
Date: June 12, 2019 01:42AM

Sunscreen is exactly the kind of lack of foresight and caring I think defines leadership like M& G of jrs. I suppose they did not even offer a glass of lemon-aid to quench your thirst nor keep you hydrated.

It was all take and nothing in return except a "revelation" or "prophesy that came to pass. Talk about "unequal yoking." They did not show any hospitality or good manners did they?

Did they ever set a good example of Christian love? When some one had surgery , a baby or a death in the family did M & or G take a casserole or order pizza delivery? all self-centered greed on the part of the cult leaders.

I don't know how people can still be loyal to such frauds given the response to simple things like sunscreen for those who did "labor of love."

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: Reepicheep ()
Date: June 12, 2019 04:43AM

OMG, the suncreen incident and the lead paint incident! Entitled, narcissistic leaders who make their wealth from the tithes, offerings, sales of church properties and the "volunteer" labor of the faithful are really a revolting breed of individuals. They demonstrate zero love or care for those serving them day and night. They are more concerned for their flowers than for the health of people who love them. And, FYI, if you need a bathroom during the hours you are there slaving away, be prepared to drive to a gas station. Also, bring your own first aid kit in case of injury. You will receive no ice or bandaids (or sunscreen) from the ones to whom you show such incredible devotion.

NancyB said:
Did they ever set a good example of Christian love? When some one had surgery , a baby or a death in the family did M & or G take a casserole or order pizza delivery? all self-centered greed on the part of the cult leaders.


No, I have never observed that behavior at all. I once asked a leader if I could take dinner to a family in the church who had lost a loved one and had family coming to stay. The first answer I received was in the form of a question, "Why?" she asked. "I think they want to be alone. But I'll ask them," she added as an afterthought. Soon I received a call back, saying that they would be very thankful if I brought them dinner. The leader spoke as if she was doing me a great favor by granting me "permission" to cook and deliver the meal.

I'm afraid that common courtesy and thoughtfulness are not in TLWF leaders' frame of reference. I would say that they appear to have heen brought up in a barn, but that would be an insult to farm animals.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/2019 04:55AM by Reepicheep.

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: NancyB ()
Date: June 12, 2019 05:12AM

Reepicheep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> I'm afraid that common courtesy and thoughtfulness
> are not in TLWF leaders' frame of reference. I
> would say that they appear to have been brought up
> in a barn, but that would be an insult to farm
> animals.

LOL Reep, you make me laugh! Even farm kids learned good manners.

What are 'manners" you may ask?
"Good manner help those around us to feel more comfortable around us."

Now how comfortable did M & G make their "slaves" feel? Maybe Gary should start an "independent investigation" on how well the hierarchy of Gary's Kingdom set a Christ-like example or more like the Queen of Hearts yelling "off with their heads for painting the roses lead based paint red!"

While I SNARK! I do have a point to make- of course Hargraves' flunkies are trolling these forums- so are organizations who Gary may want to align with. We forum members are not making this up- just ask Gary or hierarchy at the top of the TLWF - just how much did they pay their congregants to paint their houses, for example? The good trusting people who had bills to pay like low income rent.
Can GAry prove he showed any loving kindness to those people who did volunteer work? Any documents to show that he sent even a casserole



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/2019 05:27AM by NancyB.

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: changedagain ()
Date: June 12, 2019 05:35AM

Reepicheep Wrote:
> I'm afraid that common courtesy and thoughtfulness
> are not in TLWF leaders' frame of reference.

True.
I did come across this passage in the New American TLWF edition:

10 And He directed the people to sit down on the grass. Taking the five loaves and the two fish and looking up to heaven, he gave thanks and broke the loaves.
11 He then told the people He was hungry, and commanded them to go home, which they did with great sadness.
12 After they were all gone, which seemed to take forever, He began feeding himself.
13 When His hunger was completely satisfied, there was a small portion left untouched. He turned to his beloved disciple John and said: "Why did you not bring food for yourself? I am saving this portion for tomorrow morning."

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