1,065,795 page views to date...
(The ongoing discussion here re: the TLWF/Walk sh*tstorm continues to draw interest)

changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Reepicheep Wrote:
>
> > Gary, on the other hand, simply fixed the legal
> > structure so that he would never have to
> explain
> > where the money went to ANYONE!
>
>
> True, while everyone else was being intensely
> monitored for any fiduciary or other shenanigans
> ('Fred and Ethel' books).


I'm not a lawyer, but, I maintain that the original vision sold was for a Christian Church Camp - that is what the donations were donated for - I think if we look at works like Nicohols it is clear that the donated funds never went for the intended purpose. - Isn't that fraud to say the least? The people never voted on giving G & M permission to put anything in Hargrave family did name, did they? - I have to keep saying this.

It seems to me if "god" or JRS or M & G is in charge Gary is now in responsible for failures not the people he is controlling. He is toxic with his Blame Game - we know that.

Now, “Let’s discuss what we CAN control.”

[www.forbes.com]

1. We can continue to speak up publicly about the wrongs we have identified.

2. We can get a good therapist.

3. We can name names to Zalkin

4. We can remind each other this was NOT our fault.

5. We can educate ourselves with current information on how cult leaders work.

6. We can tell the truth.

7. We can contact our lawmakers to make new laws in regards to these kind of religious abuse situations that we now know more than we did a few years ago.


Thanks everyone for hanging in there and sharing what facts you can and your enlightening opinions. We are making remarkable progress.

I get irked when I hear comments like ‘ why didn’t you just call the police?’ when charges are finally filed in court on sexual abuse from the past. It's ignorant to dismiss claims of abuse.

It’s not that simple when we are concerned about child abuse that occurred in TLW – just one of the many horrendous issues we are searching for resolution as survivors of the cult The Church of the Living Word. Child abuse, unfortunately, seemed to be “accepted” by mainstream denominations as twisted religious duties. I did some research to show that few outside supports like police or doctors even had a clue of what to do.

“The Implication of Child Sexual Abuse in Alternative Religions
Documenting...child sexual abuse in alternative religions is important for a number of reasons... very little of this information has entered the wider discussion among academics and policy makers concerning child sexual abuse in general. A review... Child Abuse and Neglect from 1990 to 2012 (volumes 14 to 36) failed to find a single article about child abuse of any kind in alternative religions or cults. “


Check out the year Dr Donald Capps addressed the issues of abuse in Christianity -1991. I believe twisted “Christian values” have held “us” back from stopping all kinds of abuse in The Walk as well as in other churches. _ This must be fixed. I think these snippets will ring an alarming bell for many of us.
I recall JRS pooh- poohing the state getting involved in telling parent's how to discipline their children according to the bible. JRS was intimidating on beating the hell out of kids ( Not sexual abuse - but I think it brought fear into the children. it is all related.)

[www.icsahome.com]

“Among the earliest warnings directed to social scientists about the potential for abuse...within religions ... came in 1991 ... “Religion and Child Abuse: Perfect Together,” ... (Capps, 1992). He limited his comments to Christianity... discussed only physical abuse and several religious ideas that he felt were “inherently tormenting” to children. “

“What if religion qua religion is inherently disposed toward the abuse of children? What if it is not just a matter of a few bad apples in every basket, or just a matter of institutional policies that might be blamed for contributing to the problem, but that religion qua religion places children at risk of being the subjects of abuse? This is the issue with which this book is fundamentally concerned. (Capps, 1995, p. xi) “

“...examine child and teenage sexual-abuse issues in unevenly charted territory—groups variously called sects, cults, and new religious movements. These alternative religions tend to be far newer and smaller than the established religions, and they often center on the unorthodox teachings and personalities of spiritual leaders who are either still alive or recently deceased. It is a guessing game to estimate how many groups fit this description; but in the early 1990s, psychologist and “cult” researcher Michael Langone concluded that “approximately two to five million Americans have been involved with cultic groups” (Langone, 2001, para. 5).

“ In religious settings, people hope that their experiences... will be positive and nurturing, ...often they are... however, people’s experiences of abuse.. can be collective in nature and suffered through by many…. not isolated instances of malfeasance …. None of those reasons were the children’s fault, even if in a few instances the abuse may have become intergenerational if not intragenerational (see Erooga & Masson [Eds.], 1999).

“Millenarianism
Another scripturally related set of beliefs that has facilitated or sanctified pedophilia
belief held by some Christians, on the authority of the Book of Revelation (10)... Second Coming Christ would establish a messianic kingdom on earth ... reign over it for a thousand years before the Last Judgement. (Cohn, 1970, p. 15)
... Christians envision that Christ’s return will be associated with a terrible battle that he and his loyal legions will fight against the evil forces of the Antichrist.
... beliefs can have dire economic and emotional consequences for adherents as people give up their jobs...homes...careers.. savings in anxious expectation of “the end.” ...frequent abolition of conventional morality that occurs in some millenarian group environments. Believers set themselves above and outside of society’s laws, claiming that they—the “chosen”—have a divine calling that does not operate within normal constraints... groups ignore include sexual taboos and laws, then children and teens often become predatory targets.”

Amos Wrote:
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> I am concerned about the coffee table controversy.
> It’s a distraction. God showed me that this group
> should buy me a 135 foot yacht. Focus on that you
> children of Anak!

I think the group can do both--get the coffee table back and do a GoKingdomofGod fundraiser for your 150 foot yacht (135 foot simply won't do). The coffee table can then be placed somewhere on the yacht and used for whatever the hell you want to use it for...coffee, whiskey, old This Weeks--whatever.
Where there is a will there's a way. I mean, when it is God's will, there is a way. I always get that mixed up. It's pretty much saying the same thing, though :)

NancyB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It seems to me if "god" or JRS or M & G is in
> charge Gary is now in responsible for failures
> not the people he is controlling. He is toxic with
> his Blame Game - we know that.
>
> Now, “Let’s discuss what we CAN control.”
>
> [www.forbes.com]
>
> 1. We can continue to speak up publicly about the
> wrongs we have identified.
>
> 2. We can get a good therapist.
>
> 3. We can name names to Zalkin
>
> 4. We can remind each other this was NOT our
> fault.
>
> 5. We can educate ourselves with current
> information on how cult leaders work.
>
> 6. We can tell the truth.
>
> 7. We can contact our lawmakers to make new laws
> in regards to these kind of religious abuse
> situations that we now know more than we did a few
> years ago.

Good points.

NancyB shared this link to the International Cultic Studies Association:
[www.icsahome.com]

****************************************

Scary stuff, NancyB.

I was told my whole life because JRS laid hands on me when I was born, that the Spirit was imparted to me and that I too was a prophet. I don't remember meeting him, but I know his voice well from the tapes I heard all my life. My parents left right before he died, they told me they had to pretend to be crazy in order to extract themselves. They did not believe it was a cult until Marilyn "twisted" his mind. They compartmentalized the cult-like aspects of the church and instead of leaving his teaching behind(the core of the cult) They started their own private chapter, an isolated church that was only comprised of my family. My Father was the new JRS and my mom the matriarch.

So yeah, even outside the church, even after he died, My parents kept it alive, continuing the torment.

I think we survivors have figured out that the top of the TLW pyramid does not care about the"slaves" they abused. They have no empathy.

As I piece puzzle pieces together from my perspective of the general abuse of TLW leaders, JRS for one- and there are many more- I have discovered a common thread with a subject that is distasteful to many nice people - porn - As a young women I should have never seen the magazines in leaders bathrooms that I had seen -. to say the least- which is hard for me to say the least.

I want to share some things I have learned in my research about porn and lack of empathy. I believe that sexual misconduct may have been what the driving force versus the Love of God. ( Makes me sick to think this.)

"There is a connection between sexual objectification and empathy – the emotional response that respects, prioritises, and cares about the perceived welfare of another person." [theconversation.com]

"... empathy and sexual objectification are incompatible. There is evidence that when observers hone in on a woman’s physical appearance, she becomes “less human” and “more object” in the eyes of the observer. Under a sexually objectifying gaze, women’s bodies momentarily become the “property” of the observer – whether they have consented or not."

"Psychologists have also argued that pornographic scripts emphasize culturally accepted standards of beauty. They also propagate the myth that women (and men) have insatiable sexual appetites, and glamorize sexual novelty and sex outside of a romantic relationship. Such narratives tend not to involve affection, intimacy, or expressions of love in any “real” sense."


So, how are we survivors supposed to continue to believe with all the sexual abuse in TLW from the beginning that the the "god of fraud" cares about anything but his/her self?

Really, where has the focus of the leadership been?

Certainly not on "love of God" or protecting the sheep - maybe money or ones' escape from reality.

Victimizing people by use of sexual abuse has to be the conscious effort of the predator- not the one they prey on. not protecting each and every vulnerable member just shows Gary and minions left holding the bag are not capable of empathy - What kind of ministry is that?

We survived! TLW has no power over us.

Welcome back, forum. It appears you withstood the assault yesterday. Now don't use the battle as an excuse to drench yourself in alcohol. We need you to to keep functioning to the best of your ability :)
your friend,
changed