Reepicheep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> changedagain Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > Veering off-subject again--only because I
> recall
> > this type of ominous prophesy from the platform
> so
> > vividly:
> >
> > Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John
> > Robert Stevens
> > Posted by: paleface ()
> > Date: February 11, 2016 08:56AM
> >
> > I can even recall hearing pastors from the
> > pulpit talk about a person that had left the LW
> > fellowship. The prayer/prophecy went like this
> "We
> > deliver this person over to the destruction of
> > their body, so that their spirit can be
> > saved."
>
> Thanks for the posts from 2016, changed and
> paleface. Wow! I remember this being
> prophesied/preached about people who had left too.
> Here is the context from I Cor. 5:1-5 NASB:
>
> Immorality Rebuked
>
> It is actually reported that there is immorality
> among you, and immorality of such a kind as does
> not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone
> has his father’s wife. 2 You have become arrogant
> and have not mourned instead, so that the one who
> had done this deed would be removed from your
> midst.
> 3 For I, on my part, though absent in body but
> present in spirit, have already judged him who has
> so committed this, as though I were present. 4 In
> the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are
> assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the
> power of our Lord Jesus, 5 I have decided to
> deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of
> his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the
> day of the Lord Jesus.
>
> Notice that in the Bible, Paul was not referencing
> people who had left of their own volition. He was
> writing about immorality within the church.
> Actually, I think that those who spoke these words
> in services should have probably turned around and
> prophesied to some of the people on the platform,
> or perhaps in front of a mirror.

Good one Reep. Thanks

Yep, take any scripture out of context to sound prophetic to divert the attention off of ones own immorality. Wag the dog to cover your own hinnies.

Has any one ever called leadership on mis-quotes and twist of Biblical scripture - not jrs words - in a service? Or has anyone looked up a scripture on a tape or cd and called Gary on it? We'be been listening to GH and what a crock giving chapter and verse. Was there ever a time when M or G said, "Open you Bibles and read with me"? Any words that are contrary to the Bible are not Christian.

Onion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As I read the last several posts I was kind of
> jumping and yelling amen but silently in my own
> brain/heart.
>
> In 1992 every corporation filed Restated Articles
> of Incorporation that placed each and every one of
> the TLWF churches directly under the oversight of
> the ApCo with final control in the hands of the Ap
> Fathering Mry - G&M. The Boards had NO authority
> to do anything even as small as changing the
> members of the board. So if someone moved away or
> left the church, ApCo had to give permission in
> writing for the Board to have the authority to
> make a change.
>
> As of 1992 the local churches had NO further
> ability to act independently from written
> permission from ApCo/G&M.
>
> G&M established HFM as the corporation housing the
> AFM (Apostolic Fathering Ministry) and those on
> that Board were their family members or those they
> knew they could completely control and that is how
> it stands today under its new name, Hargrave
> Ministries.
>
> Any remarks made at any time by Gary Hargrave are
> admissable in court as an exception to the hearsay
> rule under an "admission against interests." When
> someone makes a remark that is unfavorable to
> themselves, the remark is considered reliable
> enough that the court will admit it as NOT being
> hearsay, no matter who testifies that the
> statement was made.
>
> NO ONE can look at the Restated Articles from 1992
> and public statements made by Gary Hargrave in
> 2018 and before, and not see that Gary could only
> have been naming himself as the source for the
> systemic abuse in the churches. He and Marilyn
> and them alone, ran everything and profited from
> it all.
>
> PLEASE! Don't anyone believe that Gary was an
> innocent. And please don't believe that Rick
> Holbrook was the only sexual abuser. There is a
> list of sexual abusers. There is a longer list of
> extremely harsh emotional and spiritual abusers
> each of whom acted at the specific direction of
> Marilyn Hargrave and Gary Hargrave.
>
> I know from specific conversations with Marilyn
> and Gary prior to 2018 that they knew Rick
> Holbrook was at risk of going to prison. I didn't
> know the details or what they were referring to
> until 2018 and the full extent continues to be
> exposed.

Please forgive me when I ask, 'who died and made m or g god?" How can 2 people just take over ownership of these non-profit organizations funded by the people?
If we are only talking about Shiloh, again, I have to state that the parents and youth of the Washington church were under the assumption that it was to be a Christian facility for a year round conference center and church camps so we did not have to rent only a week at lake Darling. .. strayed so far from the Christian vision...and Gary and Marilyn got to take over? That's insane wen it was never theirs to own.

Sickening when, of course they knew Rick was going to get caught. Yet, the leaders were pros at covering and re-locating men who were avoiding the long arm of the law. The leadership took absolutely NO precautions to protect the innocent, EVER!.

Can we make a list of things, like, lock on doors, that the wise and prudent adults would take to protect their loved ones? G & M and leaders Failed to take precautions that normal reasonable adults would take. Blaming girls for turning men on is a crock that does not hold water. I think leadership set up the most vulnerable by failing to do basic safety things.

Are you saying that hargraves ordered the abuses? Sexual abuse, as we know, is about Power and Control not sex.

Onion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tryingtohelp: Thank you for your kind thoughts
> and this information.
>
> It seems we are in another surge of people wishing
> we would just shut up and move on. I have worried
> that my family will see my involvement in exposing
> the truth about TLWF as just another expression of
> the obsession with the church/cult that took me
> away from them for most of my life. But I see an
> end in sight. I see some sunshine at the end of
> this dark tunnel.
>
> We aren't quite there yet. Reading from sources
> scientific, psychological and religious tells me
> that our talking about the harm we suffered is
> extremely important to our continued recovery. So
> we must continue to speak at least for now.
>
> Several of us are still pursuing justice and I am
> seeing positive indications for legal redress in
> several areas. If the perpetrators of abuse think
> they got away with anything, they will be awakened
> to a new truth on the subject of justice for the
> abused -- soon, I hope.
>
> I continue to urge everyone who has what he or she
> believes is a viable legal case to pursue it and
> not rely on other people to do so. We haven't
> failed. We aren't finished. Keep letting your
> voices be heard.

Thank you Onion for those words. I escaped over 35 years ago. I survived as did my children. Unfortunately, I did not leave soon enough for one of my children. She is still suffering - I know she has secrets that I have not be able to unlock yet. So it is extremely important to me to continue having any tid bit that I can get from other survivors.

Personally, it takes me many tries spilling my guts, sounding like a crazy incoherent nut...until...those little piece finally come together for a great big aha- then another ha-ha! that I can state with succinctness. I will guess many other survivors are still struggling to fit all their pieces together as well.

I believe that once we get a more clear picture of what really happened vs what we were commanded to think, we will have a better understanding of how to move forward vs "move on". For some moving forward may mean legal action. For others, we may be able to provided evidence or witness for someone else. For some, we may re-learn patterns of behavior that will lead us to peace far away from the constant war zone.

Please keep those stories coming.

I was talking to a close relative who had fallen awy from the walk decades ago who had been telling me to forgive and forget. Finally, I had tried not to push to get her to understand how desperate my family is for healing after all these years.

She said to me, "I never liked the idea of praying for Martha's death."

I replied, "Did you not know that many women who knew too much were on the list of death prayers?"

She was shocked and for the first time the truth hit between the eyes when I told her that my death was prayed fora well. All these years my relative had never grasped that Shiloh ceased to be a Christian group filled with loving people who were duped and controlled and very hurt. We need to tell our stories in order to help each heal. We are alone.

Reepicheep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If TLWF Ran the Titanic
>
> First of all, likening TLWF to the Titanic seems
> apropos right now because it is sinking fast.
> Because of that fact, I got to thinking about what
> it would have been like to sail on the Titanic
> with TLWF leaders making all the rules.
>
> There would have to be a special dining room for
> the leaders (hereafter to be known as “Apostoic
> Fathering Ministry or APCO”), or it least a
> platform so that they could be above everyone
> else. The finest china, silverware and crystal
> would grace this area, while the rest of the
> passengers (hereafter to be know as “sheep") would
> use plastic and paper.
>
> The sheep would pay the passage of APCO, and their
> own way as well. But Apostolic Fathering Ministry
> would be housed in the finest private rooms with
> their families, while the sheep would be packed in
> dorm rooms with strangers, otherwise known as
> “steerage”. Private bathrooms would be for
> Apostolic Fathering Ministry, while communal
> bathrooms would be for sheep. Sheep would clean
> the communal rooms and bathrooms. Special sheep
> would clean the private rooms and bathrooms.
> Chosen sheep would also serve at the tables, wash
> and iron the clothing and juice the juice of
> Apostolic Fathering Ministry.
>
> Sheep would do all the work as well as attend
> services several times a day. If they became ill
> or injured from the harsh conditions, they would
> be made to feel terrible. They would be told that
> they had a bad spirit and were shirking their
> responsibilities.
>
> When the ship crashed against an iceberg, the
> sheep would be told to gather for violent
> intercession. A scapegoat (hereafter known as a
> Nephilim) would be identified. The Nephilim would
> be prophesied against and ostracized. Eventually
> this evil person would be thrown overboard.
>
> While all this was happening, the Apostolic
> Fathering Ministry would be hurriedly getting
> themselves, their families and big donors (known
> as lead sheep) into the few available lifeboats.
> If any sheep noticed or became concerned about
> this behavior, they would be thoroughly denounced
> and accused of position thinking.
>
> As APCO sailed away in lifeboats with expensive
> wine to calm their nerves, the Titanic and the
> sheep would be sinking into the sea. I doubt that
> this would bother the Apostolic Fathering Ministry
> very much, since they only needed the sheep to pay
> their expenses and do all the work on the Titanic.
>
>

You forgot to mention the bidets in the APCO lifeboats. ( I took the Queen Mary tour )

NancyB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Reepicheep Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > Shiloh/Kalona News...
> >
> >
> [www.kalonanews.com]
> >
> > A few quotes on the proposed annexation from
> the
> > article:
> >
> > “The city isn’t buying Shiloh,” Schlabaugh
> said.
> > “Annexation does not mean ownership. We’re not
> > looking to write checks.”
> >
> > "Current discussions between Shiloh and the
> city
> > involve Shiloh requesting a voluntary
> annexation
> > of its 200-acre property into the city of
> Kalona."
> >
> > "The current proposal would have the city
> taking
> > ownership of the water and sewer system, as
> well
> > as other already existing facilities on the
> > property."
> >
> > "Other facilities included in the discussion
> are
> > the main building, an amphitheater and
> > recreational facilities."
> >
> > “This would give us an asset we would never
> build
> > in a lifetime,” Schlabaugh said."
> >
> > "Shiloh would maintain ownership of undeveloped
> > parts of the property with the idea to sell to
> > developers."
>
> Thanks Reep for the article link

Burning question: Who exactly is "Shiloh" owned by? Who has the records of the original donors besides Harvey Bender? Annoyingly I state, again, that the vision was for a Christian facility- not for witch crafty occult practices run by a cult leader's 2nd wife and her new husband.

Who is Shiloh really? ( I'm holding my tongue here over the influx of people that were not from Washington - who screened them for Christian values?) Should not every donator or relatives be on record? None of us gave Hargraves permission to amass wealth on donations to a non= profit and the sweat of slave labor? We had no membership "contracts" or admission to the "church of Shiloh" like mainstream churches.

Should there not be records of those who contributed to building from the beginning?

NancyB Wrote:
> None of us gave Hargrave's permission to
> amass wealth on donations to a non-profit and the
> sweat of slave labor? We had no membership
> "contracts" or admission to the "church of Shiloh"
> like mainstream churches.
> Should there not be records of those who
> contributed to building from the beginning?

"A Walk with Fraud"
I think it was Onion who coined that phrase, and it neatly sums up what it's been all about since the beginning.

changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Reep wrote:
> "It looks like this branch of HFM (now HM) was
> incorporated in 2000 as a Foreign Nonprofit
> Corporation with jurisdiction in Hawaii. Isn't
> that about the year that G&M took up full time
> residence in Hawaii?
>
> Does anyone know why it needed to be a Foreign
> Nonprofit?"
>
> I wondered the same thing, Reep. No idea.
> BTW, I wonder who was on the board of directors
> for the Anaheim church after it was sold to the
> city? I would think they would have to agree to
> the name change of the corporation--from Church of
> His Holy Presence to Hargrave Family Ministries
> (now Hargrave Ministries).


This topic of corporations is extremely important in this web of deceit.

The little people were kept so insanely busy and kept out of the loop of the wheeling and dealing of corporate name changes and passing money from private hands to private hands.

For the benfit of the non-participating reader of this forum from my perspective as an "oldie but goodie" is this:

How in Hell did churches with groups of loving people who wanted to grow spiritually lose that vision to
a small family group con artists fleecing the flock for their own gain?

How do we get a hold of the mess of paperwork from various areas we are members were a part of. We members of tlw started some where in a home church then were shuffled around, often, thru' Shiloh in Kalona, Iowa. Certainly the people (who contributed with money or free labor) to this alleged non- profit never got what they sacrificed for. I believe that the Hargrave / Holbrook extended family needs to be held legally accountable to each and every family who were victimized by all this corporate dealings.

Thanks for the links Reep.
I agree with what you said.

changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [i
>
> Yeah, no surprise. It was all a facade, as many
> of us predicted.
>
>
>
> These people should know better, but they
> must choose to ignore their own inner voices. I
> didn't think Christians could stoop so low. But
> then again, the LW isn't really Christian is
> it?"


Thanks Changed.

You are correct about tlw not being Christian. ( Woodrow Nichols breaks that down for us.)

The original groups were wonderful people with good hearts who studied Biblical principles - they were Christians who had pastors who cared for each member of the flock according to what Jesus taught - pasturing was a calling.

Can we get a hold of the original non-profit statements of belief of our core groups prior to Shiloh? If not, there are a handful of "oldies but goodies" that will state that we had a dream for a "Christian" conference center and church camp with flush toilets where we could worship God and study the Bible on our off-times?

I am so grieved that the dream we had in peaceful Christian Kalona turned into what it has. I am ashamed that the simple and pure Christian dream in Washington got so polluted with personal profit of a few and abuse of 1,000's of good people. it is embarrassing to state that I was one of the youth who prayed in earnest - What Shiloh became was not what I prayed for in the late '60's and early '70's. Shiloh did not turn out to be a model of Christian love in the Washington county, Iowa community.

Somewhat off-subject (again)...but during the time period just prior to him being pressured out of the fellowship, I recall Statton telling me that JRS could perform a magic trick that would always baffle him. It was the typical one of displaying money in your hand, and then making it seemingly disappear.
I don't think Statton realized the irony in what he was saying.
To this day, most of us have no idea of what became of our years of tithing and other contributions. It was designed that way. How many 'words' did we receive about trusting the leaders? The wiser/safer approach is trust but verify.
Of course, on the national level we are confronting these same issues, and the consequences of it not working out could be catastrophic.
Grifters will grift, sheep will be fleeced etc.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2019 09:35PM by changedagain.