Thanks Onion for posting, "For example, Harold Williams was apparently known to be a serial rapist in the U.S. before he was transferred to Brazil where he could continue his penis party and rape everyone in the churches financially. JRS routinely arranged marriages so men who had problems with sexual proclivities could be with a sexy wife who would certainly cure the problem. He arranged marriages for homosexual men to straight women, he sent rapists to L.A. (and yes, to visit the Blix House without warning us) in order to find him a wife. There is quite a long list. All disastrous. (Caveat: Some marriages/relationships suggested turned out great which is a credit to the people, not to JRS or G&M.)"

That explains a lot. WOW! As a kid and a teen I had gut feelings about "stuff" I did not have the knowledge base to sort through....wow. OMG! Williams mis- conduct is a puzzle piece i did not have. I have known all along that what went on in LA was so not what Christian Tabernacle congregation could fathom. (I hated being in LA)

Again my brain is overloaded with "what if?" and omg that explains this and that - my gut feelings were not wrong - here's another opportunity for healing more scars..after I vomit. I was spared a lot, I guess because my mother was intimidating. My father was so disappointed that he was never set in as an elder - I know why- it wasn't that he did not pray and read his Bible enough...wow!

Thanks Onion for spilling the beans and peeling off another layer of onion of what I had suspected...I don't understand why the elders of the early churches did not see this and put their foot down?
Perhaps these were s"subjects Christians did not talk about," back then...this crap could have stopped way back when - the good people were duped systemically in "the name of Jesus." ( Now that is what 'taking the Lord's name in vain' means to the depths.)

denisewallerlaughlin, I am so sorry to learn what happened to you. The fact that you had a man in leadership use such power and control upon you is disturbing and it is DOES matter to all of us survivors. Thanks for sharing.

p.s. it appears Hargrave has 'moved on' and is now attempting to become an established international ministry. Not a bad tactic--when you fail miserably on one level, instead of retreating, pursue something much greater.
"Leaving this realm, to move into another"...
Wasn't there a walk song about this?

Then again, is it really 'failure' if you become rich in the process? I suppose it depends on your motivation.
'Sure the product sucked and in many cases made people deathly ill. But our small company was extremely profitable--so it's all good.' /s

Reep you said, "Wow, who knew we were taught to speak in such an odd language! The original First Principles (well, at least the first one with JRS' name as author) had a whole section on "Terminology". He already knew that he was creating a loaded language that no one else would understand."

YIKES! the impact of this just hit me - hit me hard on how diabolically deceptive jrs was to sneak in occult garbage to suspecting Christians in Iowa where I grew up in the '50's. OMG!

thanks to posting this eye opener - my gut did know this- but I need to see the facts in back and white to move forward - not move on. I, along with all the other survivors needs to get the "ax to root" of the problem that infiltrated so far back that it is sickening.

Quote
NancyB
YIKES! the impact of this just hit me - hit me hard on how diabolically deceptive jrs was to sneak in occult garbage to suspecting Christians in Iowa where I grew up in the '50's. OMG!

thanks to posting this eye opener - my gut did know this- but I need to see the facts in back and white to move forward - not move on. I, along with all the other survivors needs to get the "ax to root" of the problem that infiltrated so far back that it is sickening.

NancyB, you had the advantage of seeing The Walk from the viewpoint of WJ Stevens, who seemed to honestly love the people and was a genuine Christian. His son, JRS, on the other hand, was thrown out of pastoring in at least two denominations before starting his own church in South Gate, CA. We were always told that the reason was "persecution", but we may never know the truth. Was it his weird teachings, womanizing, or both? Was it trying to draw all congregants to himself, or failure to follow the teachings of the denomination? Maybe all of the above.

Onion, thank you for the excellent example of amnesty when you said, "Forgiveness. Always demanded but never shown. I watched "The Forgiven" a movie about Bishop Tutu in Africa at the end of Apartheid. It talks about amnesty, forgiveness and freedom. Bishop Tutu explains clearly the confession in detail for the wrongs done that is required before there can be amnesty and even then freedom from prison is not a guarantee. The leaders trying to keep congregants trapped on their sinking ships should watch that movie and take note. Much more is required of those who harmed people just because they could, before there should be any sermons on forgiveness."

Well stated Reep. thank you so much

I 2nd that Reep and Onion.

changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 40yearsin2016 Wrote:
>
> > Finally, in support of my healing, Amy should
> > commission and independent forensic audit of
> > "Hargrave Ministries". Document all assets.
> > Identify historic sources of those assets.
> > Identify any IRS gaps. Document sources of
> income
> > for "Hargrave Ministries" for as many years as
> the
> > documents support. Forensic audit should be
> > published publicly, a link supplied on this
> > forum would aide in my healing...
>
Thanks changed for quoting this. I agree with 40. I think we all deserve an accounting.

How about the leadership left holding the bag opening the doors for a "family reunion" or "funeral" at Shiloh with a scrap book copy for all of us to come and pick up? We can bring our our just desserts to share with everyone.

Rich, Rogness, Seal you could take out an ad to announce an open meeting for survivors who left. We could all get copies to look at along side the hanger- oners who are lead to believe we on the forum are Neph. Why not be transparent Iowa boys?