that little red flag
#metoo

We are all learning that so many of us were never the only one and thank GOD we now have the responsible authorities to listen to our silent cries for help. it is hard. there is no one size fits all for every #metoo.

We will all make mistakes and be responsible for our own choices. I am reading some lovely statements by a number of our peers and I am so grateful for you all.

I hope we can agree to disagree and take opinions or words with a grain of salt- the wrath of god is not going to torture any of us if we don't see eye to eye perfectly. We all have different experiences with a common thread and are in different states of healing.

I hope that when I react to something for my own personal wounds that you all fell that you can support me and sooth my nerves. this is very tough stuff to deal with in this forum.

larry bobo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> First of all, I wanted to say that I’ve noticed a
> difference in kBOY’s posts, and I believe he has
> tried to make adjustments so that he meets
> rrmoderator’s requirements. As an electrical
> instructor, I get paid to research and then to
> condense and simplify my findings as a time saver
> for students. They get to learn in a few hours
> what might have taken a few years to learn the
> long way. I believe rrmoderator has done great
> research and is genuinely trying to help shorten
> the healing process for those who have been in
> TLWF. I’ve read his book, as well as many others,
> and they are very valuable and helpful tools.
> After spending years of having our lives
> micro-managed, there is a knee-jerk reaction to
> anyone telling us what to do – even if it would be
> genuinely helpful. I think it is important to
> recognize this reaction before throwing out the
> baby with the bath water. It’s a perfectly normal
> defensive response to being hurt – but it may also
> keep us from knowing the truth that could set us
> free. Rick Ross is not the enemy – the cult is.
>
> I would suggest again actually reading the
> information rrmoderator suggested before forming
> an opinion about it – then you can accurately tell
> the author everything you disagree with. I think
> you will find that there is actually more that you
> will agree with - as well as discovering things
> you were totally unaware of. I would tend to
> question how much we really “know” without first
> doing the research – something rrmoderator has
> tried to address several times. I guarantee your
> view of TLWF will change over time, the more you
> understand the dynamics involved. Our experience
> in TLWF is not as unique as you might think – I
> also gave 30 years of my life to earn the right to
> say that. As with the Kavanaugh hearings of the
> past week, when viewed through an emotional lens,
> half the people are convinced he is a serial
> rapist and the other half are convinced these are
> only trumped up charges to gain power in the
> Supreme Court. Hopefully, The FBI investigation
> will reveal who is correct. My concern for
> ex-pats is that we hang on to our emotional lens
> of how we view our experience in TLWF - which is
> very real, but not very trustworthy - and then
> stagnate the healing process instead of listening
> to what the cult professionals have to say and
> moving on down the road to recovery.

Well stated larry lobo

NancyB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> kbyrne
> Who was the old doctor? Carrie Reams?

Haven't heard that name in 40 years but certainly rang a bell. I did a quick google search and, yes, that is him. He's on a website called the Skeptic's Dictionary. Includes a picture of him. (Carey Reams)

[skepdic.com]

rrmoderator Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> kBoy,
>
> Please explain exactly what you mean by "The
> progressive degrees of enablement that has allowed
> this 'atmosphere' to develop."
>
> Who have you determined is specifically engaged in
> "enablement"?
>
> Are you insinuating that the rank and file
> membership of the group are enablers?
>
> Or do you mean the relatively very few elite
> leaders that run things from the top?
>
> Please explain your post more precisely.
>
> It seems like you are somehow insinuating that the
> rank and file are enablers, which would be victim
> blaming and shaming.

Interesting statement for which I have no good answer but I have a few thoughts of my own on several of the posts in this thread.

changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> kBOY Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > In the light of these disclosures regarding the
> > availability of numerous watering holes, I
> guess
> > the next step into the kingdom may include
> smoking
> > lounges for cannabis, since it's 'utilization'
> > will most assuredly enhance the ability of
> > ministries to more 'accurately' direct the
> lives
> > of the sheeple.
>
> Not from first-hand knowledge, but I've heard from
> credible sources that the Blue Dream and Sour
> Diesel strains will put users in a state where
> they can competently direct the lives of others.
> The downside is that users are less likely to want
> to direct others, making them unsuitable as
> ministries in TLWF. Perhaps they should just
> stick with alcohol. Lots of it. As John once
> said-- I'll let you know when you're too radical
> ;)


Re the post of pot- I can appreciate your humor today now that I know far more about mmj than what i ever thought a goody 2 shoes could know. My adult son benefits from mmj God bud or og kush for his chronic progressive disease.

the serious disturbing fact is that all too many bro in anaheim including Bo L stated they got their "best revelations when they high."Others laughed about finishing up the communion wine.
I have to ask what is wrong with this picture that so many did not see? ( I'm thinking of my late father in law and is wife a long time member of the early church.)

Apx 1977 I sat in the upper room at Shiloh while jrs was charming someone to let a certain leader go free on dui charges- " you can get that alcohol level from Scope." man was I in conflict - I had a nursing degree - so my perspective was "different". Why cover for church members who had a substance abuse problem? Get them help. I was also very naive and had no where else to go with my kids. I could not understand why non of the bro seemed to have a concern for the safety of other people on the road is the bro were driving drunk.

When we got moved to anaheim my hubby fit in with the culture of drugs and alcohol. I did not fit. I did not fully realize how the bro all covered for each other. i went for ministry about how my salary was disappearing and my hubby was not paying the bills. and I was missing services because $3000 was gone and the $325 rent was due ( In 1980 I had a very good salary with 2 jobs so I wen tto served late I i was working) I also counseled about child abuse and neglect - that did not go over well with the bro - I was told that I was 'bitch" to shut up. ( bear with me as I try to spit it out about my horror on "enabling")

My child was learning to swear at kingdom school and he was getting beating to pulp - and everyone was ok with that?

One day I snapped - since I was a mandatory reporter I called dhs for help. Police took my kids - they ignored my claims for son being beaten..it was mess that ended up prompting my escape from the body and the shunning I got from the kingdom workers who lived near by.

i wanted my children back so I did everything I needed to do. My husband did not care. it came out accidentally that he had a drinking problem... I had asked him - he lied- so dhs said that if we wanted our kids back he had go to AA. The bro did not think too highly of that nor did they of me.

Husband went to one AA meeting which was a short distance from the ananhiem church. he came home saying. " I found out that I have a disease and You are the enabler- so you are sicker than I am and you are bitch."

I struggle to this day with statements about "enabling" - no need to lay hand on me and pray for a word from god. This enabling statement was the consensus of the leaders from my experience.

My point is this: I personally don't know how to take the questions or statements on 'enabling.' other than it is interesting.

I will let it go. We all have a lot of learn and a lot of good thoughts to contribute.
I just wanted to say that I really don't think that enabling is all the "enablers fault" when someone chooses to be sneaky and deceptive and feel justified for misusing other people income in general. "Blame and shame" - I really don't believe that I am in denial about not being the enabler who bears all the blame in the Anaheim booze and drug issues. So much in so many were long established problem before any of us got into those relationships - we were "blinded by love" with out a clue of how to fix it. So we may have felt ;helpless" - that was hook for many to stay.
My opinion and reserve the right to fix my opinion with insight from my peers.

I think other wives in that church suffered a lot and they were stuck in a complicate mess. ( We all got moved around - think about why that was. I think as cover up to places where the law could not extradite - eliminating the opportunity to implicated some one else in the body who had not be arrested yet for dui or dealing.) ) I got out of the walk but family was still in it.

Any and all of us did "enable" the walk crimes when we knew and did nothing. Many of us tried to so something but the losses were too high to raise a stink for so many. We all have to be responsible for our own choices which had been very limited in a world of cover up.

Today we are where we are- can't change the past but we can look for how to heal without blaming or shaming.. ok I blame my husband for hurting his children.

NancyB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> I hope we can agree to disagree and take opinions
> or words with a grain of salt- the wrath of god
> is not going to torture any of us if we don't see
> eye to eye perfectly. We all have different
> experiences with a common thread and are in
> different states of healing.
>
> I hope that when I react to something for my own
> personal wounds that you all fell that you can
> support me and sooth my nerves. this is very tough
> stuff to deal with in this forum.

Nancy,
Were all here for you and each other. We have some 'veterans' that have probably seen it all, heard it all, and you find either silent or verbal support... truth triggers are not created the same, so something may very well spark a memory and another until it avalanches!

There is no set way to get to the 'infection' to be able to heal and I'm discovering it can be a white knuckler, quite unexpectedly, at times. Ride with it-- you're in safe venue here--be comforted.

greetings all,

so much to follow, so much to learn still and my need to post responses directed to me, of late, by participants on this forum. one of my 2 concerns that i expressed very early in my own participation on this forum was that i might spend an inordinate amount of my time here. last night i did just that but hopefully to some benefit for some of the the readers of the previous evening's posts, some of whom have directed queries to me. i trust many of you were introduced to the man dietrich bonhoeffer and some of his history and maybe even did some further research of your own after my allusions to that brave soul.

i purpose myself to 3 posts after this post (got y'all on pins and needles,heh? - [just some tongue in cheek])

the first will detail a somewhat lighthearted and pleasant story of my visit to the shiloh easter service (which in my day with lw was called passover) in 2017.

the second will address kboy's request that i stop beating around the bush (no, not moses' bush) and another that i might be a spy (i.e., a mole i presume).

the third (and frankly i've litttle idea how deep or wide the query will go until i lift my fingers off the keypad and push send) is who is gary hargrave.

a few days before easter in 2017 i entertained the notion to visit shiloh for the sunday morning passover/easter service. i called shiloh to ask about the service's time and whether or not i would be welcome to attend. i recollect, but perhaps inaccurately, that i spoke with chuck rogness and was assured that i was most welcome. and as it turned out, that was exactly the case. prior to the service, i was greeted and i greeted in return, by dozens of folks that i had not seen or spoken with for decades. now one has to admit that having a nickname like "pretty boy" embellishes one with some degree of novelty. at no time and i mean no time, not in any instance, was i ever treated by anyone by any sense of disrespect, disregard, dismay or annoyance. i was embraced in same fashion in which they embrace each other. during the worship service, jody rogness came to stand beside me and gave me a warm embrace - i could i not feel warmed? afterwards, i was treated to a tour by one who was there at my first days in iowa. and following, was invited to a family get together and meal. a few weeks later, i was invited to a movie about the 6 days war (1967 - israel) in iowa city by one of the members of that family. given the present givens, i have chosen to divulge no names other than the rogness'.

y'all know that saying - "keeping a long story short" - well, i am certainly not very good at that. after all, i'm an iowan at heart. so barry, i went to the store on tuesday; no, it could not have been tuesday because i had to go to the dentist that day; wait, it wasn't the dentist it was the florist because my wife wanted me to pick up some roses; wait, it wasn't roses, it was daisies, i'm sure of it. and then the other day, wait it wasn't the other day it was the day before the other day, she told me to return the daisies because one of the flower's petals was wilted on the edges; wait, was it rather the stem was wilted and not the petals.

i love iowa and it is not needful for me to try to identify what forces brought me here, whether those forces or force were god's will, total random spinning of the wheel, cosmological karma or the moon's pull on my internal tide. but i do know that had i never crossed paths with the living word church in my life's journey it is highly suspect that life would have found me here.

affectionately, prettyboy

ps - i may not get around to the 2 other posts i had intended to post at the outset of this one, but i'll try but time to take a short brake, i mean break

Yikes! Following this thread.

At that time I was leaving Anaheim with my daughters to go live with my sister and her husband in San Jose' She was still involved in walk. But i did not go to any meetings. I had no idea what was going on. nor did i want to considering how badly I had been treated by the bro in Anaheim - that included my father in law and his 2nd wife.

I hope I am not breaking the flow of this - I did not know these things because I got out of there, gratefully.

btw my son is looking for his peers from the kingdom school in Fullerton- he was abused by 'teachers" . simon and eli, nathan and Tami's younger sisters to name a few were class mates. The beating of children to break the spirit was a serious issue I had with the brothers. I reported it to dhs but i never heard about any investigation. Instead of getting the help I needed for my children dhs took them away. It was best because I go them out of there.

Onion Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> My understanding is the walk churches do the
> Jewish festivals and feasts because those are the
> ones Jesus did when he was here. JRS frowned on
> Christmas and Easter and had published a booklet
> about the various holiday icons that he equated
> with the golden calf. It's odd isn't it that
> everyone in the church helps Rick put on a
> Christmas Caroling truck several times around
> Christmas time. That of course did not start until
> after JRS died.
>
> No the walk churches don't follow the other rules
> of Judaism such as for burial.
>
>
My 2 personal cents of history: mid '60 Christmas was sort of banned in Christian Tabernacle church according to my parents interpretation. ( They were always going for the radical 'we know secrets you don't know)

It was embarrassing to my sisters and I to not be able to tell our class mates what we got for Christmas.My sisters teacher was shocked that she got no Christmas presents so we called our mother to offer to get some gifts.
My concern as an grown woman today is that there was no love or kindness that helped guide any of the children with all these radical changes that I saw in the '60's.

The Feast of Tabernacles was really big with the church and that is when jrs declared Christ was really born. No more Christmas celebrating.

My parents made us to creepy stuff and they said they were told. how many other families followed suit- I don't know. We did not talk about it.We knew that Christmas was forbidden fruit because brother stevens said so.

My mother cut down branches from out side and decorated our living room an dining room. Embarrassing because I did not know what to tell my camp fire group who met at our house.
I don't know how many other Christian Tabernacle families suddenly abandoned Christmas and Easter in Washington . the whole thing was bizarre and not done is a healthy way for we children. Stuff like this was really beginning to change our Christian beliefs and celebrations around 1962 under the prophetic direction of John stevens whenhe came to town.

Prior to that jrs would come to town for long services on school night after school night. We kids never dared to complain about being too tired to go to school. Teachers did not know nor did they ask why we were all so sleepy/ I don't think we children were ever guided in these radical changes. We did have a jewish family in town that we went to school with- I doubt any one of us said, " hey, we celebrate Jewish holiday like you now."

the whole Christmas Truck thing had struck me as so odd. Was it a front or something to lure children like the pided piper? My opinion.

changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> lone.wolf Wrote:
>
> > On another note, myself and others have
> recently
> > been contacted by pastors of the church we
> > attended. Their intent is to “apologize” for
> > their wrongdoings toward us. I have avoided
> any
> > contact with the pastors and will not answer
> their
> > text/calls. If they truly wanted to apologize,
> > they wouldn’t have taken 15+ years to do so. I
> > was shunned, alienated, and treated like an
> > outsider ever since leaving. It certainly
> feels
> > like this is just one step in their 12 Step
> > Program to clear their conscious and revive the
> > church.
> > Thank you all for being here, for speaking the
> > truth, for making me feel like I’m not alone
> any
> > longer.
>
> Welcome, Lone Wolf. You're not alone. You'll find
> receptive ears in this forum.

Changed again you owe them NOTHING. they may be trying to appease their own consciences or trying to see what you know is my guess.