Onion, we must be like ships passing in the night. I just moved out of the Springs. Back home in Iowa now.

They almost sent me to blix in '69. I did go to CA and hated it. The bro wanted to get me away form my childhood sweetheart. My future father in law wanted me saved for his son. I guess I was spared a lot of grief.

If you need any ancient history out of Iowa feel free to pm me.

i have read many posts over the past week or so that invite a response, albeit not explicitly, from me. that i have chosen not to do so (the previous post,by nancy b, being a prime example) should not be taken as my being dismissive. i have for so long been not tethered to the lw church that i am reluctant to get into the minutiae of every story posted. that should not be taken that i do not regard the stories and nuances of each person's experience as irrelevant because they are not irrelevant, particularly for those of you that have suffered the exploitation, psychological manipulation, dividing of families, sexual abuse and moral intimidation (e.g., you are headed for hell and damnation if you do not toe the line). i've simply the sense that my role on this forum's discussion is much different from most everyone else. and quite honestly, i am not so sure what my role is other than it being different from other's roles. a ghost in the house is tapping me on the shoulder now, reminding me i need to attend to the essence of my proposed 2nd post (which this is supposed to be) and stop making a short story long. for those of you few wondering what is the ghost's name, it is billy bob crandall jr. he didn't do anything egregious or was the recipient of such, he just likes hanging around, not ready "to move on" as folks are wont to say. besides,he really likes fuzzball, my cat (frankly, that's a poor characterization of fuzzball - more aptly, i'm fuzzball's human). so where was i? i mean figuratively, i know where i am literally - in a chair, on the computer (figuratively, not literally). geez, where was i (again!) - the 2nd post!!! has to wait, fuzzball wants some treats, and when she wants treats, she is incessant. 2nd post to follow briefly

puddington – “It certainly makes you wonder how many of the APCO guys were/are sheep bangers. I sorta think it isn’t just Rick.”

Grosses me out. but perhaps this is time to mention again the first time I got educated on the sheep thing. My sister married DC, one of jrs boys in '68 in South gate. I forget what they called the guys who followed John around exactly.

Around '72 when I got married the word got out that my sister and DC got divorced. "Who's fault was it" was the big question. I was young and naive- but it struck me as so very odd about the difference in approach from father and son about marital relationships. with divorce in the whole tclw organization at the jrs was joking about sandpaper ministry and squeezing the tube of tooth paste wrong. Grandpa stevens in Washington announced that we do don't condone divorce but we will not allow abuse. ( an older wash girl whom he had to help hide from and abusive abusive husband at about the time.)
Some home my sister who live in CA in Southgate church divorce got back to Iowa. it seemed rather scandalous. My sister was very silent for a number of years...this is awkward- she finally told me her soon to be ex surprised her about joining up - he had a deferment from the draft.. and he told her on the way to the airport to basic that they were divorcing.. big surprise. ( the idea I got he joined the military to avoid something legal.)
Sis also learned some how that he was into bestiality as were the other young men who sat the feet for the beloved prophet. . at the time I had no idea what having sex with animals had anything to do with "servicing the lord." I had no idea why young men- disciples of a prophet would do such things??? I did not witness any of this.

My understanding is that a number of the young men in the 'body' my sis and her husband were a part of liked animals as 'girl friends' - to try to be delicate for those dear readers who areas tender as i was back then...i do not it is possible... Of course jrs and marilyn had to know about this. Why would they NOT know with some many of the younger in the group always "at church" studying at the prophets feet and bless-ins? - my naive opinion. I would think the sins of the fathers were passed on to the next generations. ya think?

I feel like a gossip. I feel gross. But the fact is that there has always been indiscretions and perversions going on in this cult.

The sanctity of marriage relationships were laughed about in the pulpit - not appropriate in my mind a young lady. If I had known the future I would have taken notes instead of walking away in uncomfortable embarrassment when I was around many of the CA youth (not all) who thought my Iowa virginity was a hoot. Where was the love?
...and if I knew the gossip and heard the jokes when I was in CA as a college student then why did jrs and the elders in the early churches not be aware of this kind of behavior?

I am so grateful that the speaking out of sexual abuse of late is finally public but the abuse is nothing new in TClW organization. It just has been covered up and covered up with few being caught or whisked away to another church. My information is only 2nd hand from bragging by youth in the walk. At that time in the '60's any victim was the butt of jokes-

BTW I use "the walk". when I went to church camp in Hawaii in '69 some of the hippies talked about "the way"a cult at the time. The hippies were the first I heard this called 'walk". Many of that group jumped from "cult" to "cult."

Hope this helps with missing pieces for some one.

to lone wolf and changedagain,
to me, one of the central tenets in christianity is the notion of forgiveness. i am not at all privy to why those who reached out to you did so. truly, perhaps a ploy to get information from you that otherwise you would be reluctant to provide or, as was proposed, to ease their conscience so to sleep better at night. or is it possible that they, as no doubt some participants in this forum's discussion who once were a party to denigrating detractors, have truly come to a sense of humility and simply wish to very sincerely apologize and ask for forgiveness?

i have long since being a professing christian but the notion of forgiveness, not only extended to others but as well to oneself, and the golden rule - beautiful concepts, most especially when actively employed - have few rivals, if any, in my thinking in the course of human philosophical thought.

Onion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Larry Bobo: I can confirm that JRS and Marilyn
> had a relationship long before his divorce. I
> moved into the Blix House on 2-14-72 when I was
> 21. I don't remember if it was going on openly
> when I moved in but definitely within 1 year those
> of us living with Marilyn, Bessie, Rick & Marti at
> Blix, knew that Marilyn went away every week on
> Monday and Tuesday. Those are the days JRS went
> away to "wait on the Lord" after his heavy service
> schedule each week. The girls (but mostly Bessie)
> took care of Rick and Marti and within a short
> time, I became the "house sitter/companion" for
> Martha Stevens. I would go over every night JRS
> was gone and sleep in his office because Martha
> was afraid to be alone.
>
> I helped Marilyn pick out the best wig for her to
> wear in the car with JRS so it would hide her
> identity should they be seen.
>
> Martha moved out of the marital residence on
> 9-25-1978. If my memory is accurate, Marilyn was
> with JRS 24/7 after that. At some point whenever
> JRS traveled, he was 1 of a foursome that included
> Marilyn, Phyllis, and Larry Makuakane. At the end
> of one trip, Marilyn decided she hated Larry
> Makuakane and he quickly became a blip in history.
>
> I heard from someone that Rick and Marti always
> threw it in Marilyn's face that she taught them
> how to have affairs and that she was an absentee
> mother. I don't remember who told me about that -
> it might have been Marilyn - but I remember
> hearing about it several times.
>

i do not get it why regular members of southgate and the valley did not see all the flirtations and sneaky sexual vibes. I did and I was a stupid Iowa girl visitor on a number of occasions in the late 60's. Maybe they could not see the forest for all the trees.
If it matters when kathy and david and jan and paul married my family was invited to jrs and martha's home. Oh my the expensive wine! The expensive furnishing were a site to behold and jrs was so proud. I did not get it. Most of us had grown up struggling financially as did john and martha. The diner was creepy to me. John had talk about for several years before my sisters moved to CA about getting us girls out to CA to teach us things or however he put it. I had "secrets " about relatives and my parents employees that I feared Jrs revealing. With the way the way he hinted around I was afraid. No he never did anything nor did any elders, but i felt so uncomfortable that I still cringe. I felt I had no choice to to stay in the church - no one else would ever love me.

Feelings are not facts. But i knew something back in the '60's and I did not like it. So why is it that no one else seemed to be aware? ( I think they were aware but stuff was I guess acceptable to them.)

to kboy's suggestion that i not beat about the bush, truth is is that i am not privy to any information about hargrave and holbrook apart from what i have read on this forum or in public news articles. my comment regarding those 2 individuals is purely conjecture based on, what i believe, a natural progression of unfolding events and information. my sense is that nothing is likely to bring either of those 2 men to any degree of accountability unless criminal charges against holbrook by law enforcement agencies, whether by county, state or federal are put into play. the way i have read the template should that occur, is that holbrook will be formally charged for felony sexual assault and that hargrave, as a consequence, be charged with being complicit to covering up what he knew about those the sexual assaults. hargrave is in a seriously difficult situation. until marilyn's death, he was no doubt under her thumb. after her death, he becomes fully in charge, king on the frigging mountain and no longer under marilyn's thumb and having to do her biddings. and holbrook is not really a problem, that is until mid octobert, 2018 with a facebook post by a brave and morally instructed woman. be reminded, when she made her post, she was alone - she had no idea of how her facebook post would be received prior to her posting. brave and alone, standing up to a power structure very well equipped to portray her as a fool. she went ahead and acted out to the dictates of her moral compass, the same way dietrich did. it is likely that she never heard about this beautiful and courageous man, 70 years plus dead, executed by one of the world's history most outrageous regimes. but i cannot dismiss that dietrich and this women of the october, 2018 facebook post (and i am so very sorry that i do not know her first name - hopefully someone can tell me) are kindred spirits. and those of us who now know of their respective stories be emboldened to stand up to any tyranny, in whatever guise, to fight the good fight.

finally, to conclude my answer to kboys query (remember that! - in saying that, i cannot help but recall arlo guthrie's "alice's restaurant") i am informed by 2 instances that involved crimes and subsequent coverups.

larry nassar, after decades of sexually abusing numerous young females of the michigan state university gymnastics team, was convicted and sentenced to multiple terms of imprisonment, essentially a life term. a number of people were involved in the the coverup and have been formally charged with felonies
for their complicity. i recall that the msu president resigned over this matter.

flint michigan water issue. some turned a blind eye, dismissed warranted concerns or just pushed the envelope up to a higher level.

what has anything of this to do with kboy's query to me about stop beating around the bush? my point is that i am not privy to any information that any of you are. i employed the 2 examples above to stress a point. one, i believe, and certainly could be wrong as there is a difference in a criminal claim vs. a civil one, that until there is a formalized felony charge levied against holbrook by a law enforcement agency there will be little retribution.
hargrave will sell off what he can to increase his treasures on earth and perhaps unlikely anyone can do to stop him. so gird up your loins - your hope for reasonable justice may ultimately be thwarted, and if so, then what do you do? you breathe in and then breathe out, you look up into the heavens and see countless stars (well, yeah not if you are in l.a.), and you are aware of the good in your life, in whatever form and you thank god or just life itself for the treasure of that beating heart, going thump thump thump in splendid rhythm and cannot exhult in the gift of life.

ok, after all of the above, esp, the end, it is sort of difficult to switch to the query that i might be a spy or a hargrave mole. i take no offense given that hargrave is savvy, resourceful and particularly vulnerable . perhaps not sufficient,but i resort to letting my yays be yay and my nays be nay, so nay, i am neither a hargrave mole nor a spy. to some it may be of little import but as far as i know i am the only person to reveal my name, publicly. my doing so does not obviate the chance completely that i am not indeed a spy or mole. my nay remains - judge for yourselves.

so i won't be doing my third post this evening re g hargrave. maybe best as i have never known him personally. please tell who he is, who he was if different from who he is now, is/was a man of god. i cannot imagine to ever have held him in any esteem, but rather disgust. a user and one being used

NancyB:

WELCOME back to the fray. Someone obviously let the dogs out. XOXO


* * * * *

PRETTYboy:

Keep it up and you will most assuredly land on the WATCH LIST. (Welcome to the club.)

Prettyboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> i cannot imagine to ever have held him in any
> esteem, but rather disgust. a user and one being
> used

Right now it seems the approach of some of the churches who are choosing to remain in TLWF and continue their adulation of Gary and his 'living word' is to maintain that sexual abuse occurs in ALL churches--really nothing to be alarmed about. And yet many of the young adults went through hell experiencing the withering scorn of G & M if they were even suspected of having a lustful thought. And then, of course, having to stomach listening to G & M talk brag about their own very exciting sex life.
The sickness runs deep.
"All things work together for good to those who love their leaders and follow them over the cliff."
(somewhere in the Bible)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2019 10:20PM by changedagain.

I never expect a res ponce from any one. I do need to get piece in writing some where because at some time it may help someone who needs those missing pieces in this crazy situation that went on far too long. bless you all