LampShmamp welcome aboard!

Hi Onion
yep, lets put a biblical name or something that has a ring to it and call it "kingdom proverb" or a plagiarized 'first principal" and call it 'word from god".

Did we get those drunken "kingdom proverbs" on the list yet? I've been out of the loop for while.

kbyrne
Who was the old doctor? Carrie Reams?

Cloudwatcher
good one - the Thumbs!

My son, who I had gotten out of the walk became a marital artist - oo-o-oh maybe of the devil!- wait for it* - any way - when he got older my late father was still into a lot of those things only in other churches. This kind of "sign" thing was not 'exclusive message' to the 'blessed door opener'. John RS plagiarized everything he taught as an exclusive revelation.

*Much the the "laying on of hands" or spiritual signs junk ends up being "pressure points" that martial artists learn for techniques to maybe knock some one out. Some of this stuff did have roots in other 'disciplines' if used inappropriately could be life threatening.

kBoy

Did we get back as far as the "bless-ins"? all that was learned from the witch in south gate or the Valley in late 60's. That eventually turned into the violent intersessions that I did not want my children in on - tho' my father- in-law did not get it.
Interjecting a thought while its in my head.

in the early years of shiloh when I was not working the graveyard shift - some one had to pay bills - my 2 to 3 year old loved to go the Shiloh. She was always expecting the "presents from God". The god of god of the walk never did giver her any gifts. As a mother I felt horrible. I also took my small children out of the intersession as I deemed it inappropriate for small children - oh my! was I the 'mother of harlots!" But leaving the big hall could be quit enlightening to over hear private conversations of the bro.

This kind of talk about how to get the people to do - what- ever -was not new to me because I had been a church pianist on the platform in Wash. I was young and vulnerable with no where else to go, but, I guess to hell, if I did not do what i was told. But it seemed to me that the kind of talk among the bro was not all that loving nor spiritually focused.

I reckon that congregations everywhere besides shiloh or the walk, have no idea how much the key and or tempo of the songs sung or played in the back ground affected how much was put in the offering plate or how may 'surrendered their hearts' - or what ever lingo they used. Everything from the pattern of speech, catch phrases on our list, to the music was used to manipulate the people's emotions to do what the "god of jrs/ shiloh, mother of god" wanted to get the flock to do.

Who knew?

Onion,
yep, ya think?

Oh what a relief to have some one understand the mixed up stuff in my head that makes no sense to my adult daughters. Wading though this crazy mess can be difficult to spit out succinctly.

The bro could say horrible things to you in front of the whole congregation for the express purpose of controlling a vulnerable young lady and perhaps marrying her off and undesirable creepy sons who were most likely fornicating secretly . ( No offence to the good son's and men among our walk peers.)

A smart young woman could not provide the legal sex but an outside income that left the creepy son to substance abuse with the bro under the name of 'loosing the apostle with intersession'. Well at least that my case. And when the female spoke up the bro just branded her as a Jezebel and prayed for her death. Did we get that concept on the list?

Everyone: jBoy Reepicheep, changedagain Onion,
As I am reading trying to catch up I wanted to jump in late to say I just read some beautiful loving statements from you all among the private joking and moments of healing. thank you for the respect you all show to one another.

JJJ I am skeptical as well.

Hi Lone wolf
I agree about getting professional help.
Outside the walk counseling was a no - no as you know so I feel you have a hesitation - not a revelation from god. I think we all may still have that hesitation.

I'm thinking out loud -My ex had a lot of these issues.He could not even make a decision to buy new underwear with out consulting for a word. His father was walk leader He also had brain injuries and alcoholism. I accounted the last 2 as the brain injury. But, now that you mentioned it...still get professional help your loved one...it could be a straight neuro issue needing stat attention.

One of my children was very abused in a kingdom school in Orange co. I got my kids and I out of the walk in the 80's while other family was still very heavily into it. My adult child has those same issues on your list of concerns for number of years, Lone Wolf. I have assumed that the problems were related to my child's progressive disease state...coincidence or how much damage was done? I do not know? My child is in a nursing home now, but, has not been able seem to advocate for self. Figuring out whether the root of the problem came from the walk is probably moot. Keeping our loved ones safe is priority. I do hope we can learn from the mistakes so in the future these cults no longer ruin lives.

Just a thought along the same vein, does any one have a hint of how many alcoholics and drug issues in the 3rd and 4th generation that may have gotten started in kingdom school? I don't expect an answer. We don't want to violate any privacy either. Just a thought...we may never know how much 'undoing' our children and grand children need.

puddington Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Note: the moderator’s links go to cult references
> that are fairly general. Most of them were
> written by other cult experts, as well as RR. I
> have read most of this material. I found it
> exceptional and very helpful for my healing. The
> Nichols paper is very helpful too. But everyone is
> different. Some of you may not wish to read all
> that stuff. Some of you will. Peace !!!
>
> Also, I am glad Onion is tackling the tough issues
> and constructing a timeline. I trust Onion.
> Completely.

I am bit late to jump in. I understand some statements are not setting well with some folks. here's my 2 cents.

I belong in this forum. I am a walk survivor. I only found this group because I was researching for several reasons that are centered around my writing a piece of fiction based on my need to heal from the walk and my own stupidity of falling into another persona's delusion when I was old enough to better.

I knew that there are patterns of behavior - that is my professional expertise - but I am still so dumb. What jrs and m or gh have done to take power and control over the sheep in the walk has been done before - over and over again. We are not the only people to fall for love bombs; sacrificing for a common goal that never happens. Cult leaders have a common thread- and they learn from other cult leaders - and they more sophisticated than their predecessors. Victims can very well become the predictors like the walk leaders have been.

Feeling special then realizing your were conned is disheartening.

We are all in stages of recovery. for me- because I had never figured out boundaries etc. a few years back I was nearly murdered by a a well known woman who used the same techniques that have been used in the walk. I promoted her- and I have to undo that promotion.

I am aware that my reactions to certain things that I was taught in the walk have affected my children, my co-workers and other relationships more than I will ever know.
My reactions to certain issues and circumstances while I can kind of cover up are not all normal and healthy - Much is due to the trauma of the power and control from the cult we were all in and how your or my parents made not healthy choice for us because of what they were told by the bro to do. ( not so very different from most of all the other cults. the same basic stories are told over and over again..you could simply substitute the names. sorry to sound so trivial- this horrific act of power and control is devastating to each of us personally and to the world around us...)

When many of us were much younger (I'm 68) we did not have legitimate nor credible researched information at our finger tips as we do today on the subject of cults. We have been able read about how Hilter operated - yes- he used may techniques used by hrs and a recent president's pattern of speech. it is effective to get people to listen.)

The moderator has suggested as what I see to be valuable resources for us to study and see where we fit into the cult pattern of behavior. Speech patterns; music; sleep deprivation; feeling specially selected to do a task for the greater good; how child predators operate... We can learn from this research- take it or leave it.

But, unless I or anyone else can get help to change the only program in our heads that I (we) know I (we) will continue to be victims that affect other people lives more than what I (we) we can ever know. How we can make decisions does effect those around us. ( We were robbed of learning how to make good choices on our own. We seduced into always being dependent on the leader.)

I don't believe that the suggested reading was meant to be forced on anyone nor over self promoting as may have been taken. But, I can sure understand how some of our peers reacted negatively to the suggestion... And that is an example of how the patterns of controlling behavior from shiloh/ the walk still affect many of us today. I (we) can figure out how to live a more healthy balanced life than what we knew in the walk. (Plenty of other things trip my emotional trigger, as well, all too often.)

the suggested reading may not be for everyone. It may not be the right time to learn about how cult leaders or sex abusers sucker us in- its humiliating.

Just my opinion- take it or leave it- I hope my peers on this forum can feel safe. I can easily see how words, ideas, phrases will trigger a fearful or negative reaction. That will happen to all of us at one time or another.
No one in the forum is perfect- we don't have to be perfect in order to want to help each other feel safe.
...and with that said - it is wise to be cautious or even skeptical of everything.