I wonder if when the “Lord appeared” to Marilyn before her death, His plans included hand picking someone who was already married for Gary, as they did for Marilyn when John died. This “lord” seems much different than the one in the Bible. I guess you can do whatever you want when you are god and the one writing the rules - pretending to follow visions that are contrary to scripture. Unless you are all smoking together, who can say you didn’t? I was honestly hoping Gary would now be allowed to be involved in the life of his real daughter, who apparently wants to get to know him, since it would no longer be a threat to Marilyn. How can you talk of the value of family and then totally ignore your own child? Many marriages end up in divorce, but parental responsibility – not to mention love - does not end, except in TLWF. Even people without God understand that. I guess it’s the price you pay for being so “cutting edge”.

I’ve received numerous emails from kids of LWF leaders who were on the wrong side of an "unequal yoke" and they often go for years without speaking to the parent who is still involved in TLWF. Most are so bitter, they want nothing more to do with God. You don’t get to wound the child and then blame them for not wanting to be a part of your group – even if you pretend they are a Nephilim to excuse your actions. If they were to show up at a service, they would suddenly be showered in feigned affection. If they don’t, they are treated as if they had never been born. It takes a very hard heart to forget your own children. God hates divorce because He wants a godly offspring – not wants to ignore them. It is so dysfunctional it breaks your heart to watch. Relationships can actually extend beyond the borders of TLWF if you are really interested in God’s kingdom and not just your own.

Apostle Dog - One of the big issues many who have left TLWF face is visiting other churches looking for another "Saul" to fill the void. They think that it's the normal way to function because it's all they've been taught. When the pastor doesn't appear to be a good substitute for God, they get discouraged. Without the familiar spiritual abuse, it just doesn't feel right. Most pastors would be very uncomfortable if you tried to relate to them as we did to G&M. It's a big step to pull up your big boy panties and walk with God yourself. In spite of our former name - "The Walk", we never were really allowed to walk on our own as Jesus taught. Most will not even understand what I'm talking about until they leave the nest - or the thorns start poking them enough they finally have no choice. A healthy pastor wants you to learn the voice of the Lord yourself, not remain dependent on him. He has enough to do running his own life. If he is equipping you properly, you are going to be the one doing the work anyway, not him. The MLM pyramid scheme is man's system, not what Jesus taught.

I always thought idolatry was the worship of demons and I am trying to wrap my head around the ramifications of the idolatry practiced in the LW.

I was thinking that in the Bible and the nations that surrounded Israel, idolatry and the worship of demons was characterized by destructive practices such as the sacrifice of children. In TLWF which also engaged in idolatry the destructive practices of mandating divorces also resulted in harm to children as described in Larry's above post. While the children of divorces weren't physically sacrificed and destroyed, it seems to me based upon the feedback Larry received, some of the children ended up spiritually destroyed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2015 04:13PM by lily rose.

Lily Rose, I always thought of idolatry as the worship of simple statues such as the golden calf, I really didn't even equate the statues as representing demons, although you are very much right, most of them do represent a demon. Then it hit me one day, that the bible refers to "worshiping the creature, rather than the creator." It started getting put together in my mind that rock stars often are thought of as idols. Actually what sealed it in my thinking was a guy's name, Billy Idol, I thought of how entertainers, sports heroes, movie stars, all of them can be idols to people, in a mild sort of way. But beyond that, lots of Christians idolize their pastors, not just in Living Word, way too many Christians put their pastors up on a pedestal, to the point, that when he fails, and churches split up, some of those Christians never enter a church again.

I believe making a man into an idol is the worst form of idolatry. For one thing, a gold calf can not do much of anything but stand there looking like a very expensive farm animal. When a man gets in the position of total power, that power is abused. Also, pastors are placed in power like that so that those closest to him, the inner circle are empowered themselves.

Anyway, that's my take on it.

It is an exciting time for us Walkologists, (one that studies the Walk)...We are in Walk Phrase 3 now. It will be interesting to see how it turns out. We may find out what Gary Hargrave is like at this time in his life, without the influence of Marilyn, and as a much older man. I have prayed for John, for Marilyn, even though both are gone now, I still prayed for them, I have criticized them enough. I am not saying any of you should or not criticize them, no, I am just finished with them. I have learned all I can about John Robert Stevens, a man that I myself idolized to a certain extent. I just think of him as just another preacher that was right some of the time, and wrong some of the time. My opinion of Marilyn? I am not interested enough to think about her, I just hope they are all OK, if you know what I mean.

Now onward to Walk Phase 3 for me. I wonder if he will get his whits about him and just be a solo act for a while, or if another woman will snag him quickly. Lots of activity, lots of changes.

LARRY BOBO, you said it all right there. It is worth repeating.

larry bobo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Apostle Dog - One of the big issues many who have
> left TLWF face is visiting other churches looking
> for another "Saul" to fill the void. They think
> that it's the normal way to function because it's
> all they've been taught. When the pastor doesn't
> appear to be a good substitute for God, they get
> discouraged. Without the familiar spiritual abuse,
> it just doesn't feel right. Most pastors would be
> very uncomfortable if you tried to relate to them
> as we did to G&M. It's a big step to pull up your
> big boy panties and walk with God yourself. In
> spite of our former name - "The Walk", we never
> were really allowed to walk on our own as Jesus
> taught. Most will not even understand what I'm
> talking about until they leave the nest - or the
> thorns start poking them enough they finally have
> no choice. A healthy pastor wants you to learn
> the voice of the Lord yourself, not remain
> dependent on him. He has enough to do running his
> own life. If he is equipping you properly, you
> are going to be the one doing the work anyway, not
> him. The MLM pyramid scheme is man's system, not
> what Jesus taught.

I think it is time to just start using logic, even though we were taught that logic is our enemy, to lay our minds at the door, the fact is, if Latter Rain, Dominionism, The Walk theology is right, then what happened, how is it working out? Did it happen with the Walk so far, and is there any evidence that those particular people are going to bring forth the Kingdom of God doing what they are doing now? Well, has it?

Now if God was in it, and He decided to blow on the Walk, because we blew it, including me, then certainly He has that right and if He was going to bring forth manifest sons of God in the sense and timing that John thought, then He will do it through somebody else. But we can look around and use our logic, our GOD GIVEN LOGIC, and see that there are perilous times in the earth today, and the bible says when we see these things happening, then we should LOOK UP, for our redemption is drawing near. We need to look to Christ.

I quit the Church of John and joined the Church of God.

Well, I guess the rumors about the Larsens being taken out of the lead pastoring positions in the San Diego LW church are true. That local church's website now shows the Dunns as the pastors. This could be a good change for the SD sheep.

[www.churchofhiskingdom.org]

jhorning Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "2. It is often taught that if you learned to
> think like the leader (MH) you would have her
> thinking, and that
> her thinking was God's thinking. She was the "Lamp
> of Israel" and was the incarnation of Christ on
> the earth.
> In backroom meetings, it is assumed that the
> leader's word is the word of God. Many believe
> that the founding
> father was "Christ" reincarnated for this age. He
> was thought to be the first of Christ returning in
> many
> members. A subtle point, but one that gives the
> leadership excessive power over others."
>
> Not all members believed JRS was Christ incarnate.
> I was with the LWF from 1970 - 1984. I never heard
> this preached openly, but I can't speak to what
> was said in the back room meetings. I attended
> only one "back room" meeting. It was held in a
> garage/office and I was told not to share anything
> I heard with my wife. We were told we could only
> discuss what was said with others who were
> present. This secrecy spilled over years later
> with the tape libraries. I was over the library in
> Phoenix and was instructed to be present in the
> same room whenever someone wanted to hear a tape.
> Supposedly this was to cut down on the confusion
> or misunderstanding that may occur if someone
> heard the word on their own.
>
> Having "John's thinking" was surely taught.
> Members were encouraged to think about things the
> way John did. Scripture
> alert: "Philippians 2:4-6 (New
> International Version, ©2011) not looking to your
> own interests but each of you to the interests of
> the others. In your relationships with one
> another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:
> Who, being in very nature God, did not consider
> equality with God something to be used to his own
> advantage;"
>
> The phrase, " What would John think." was common
> place. I guess it has now been passed to Gary and
> Marilyn. I was at a service in Sepulveda when Bill
> Maybee said for us to turn our minds over to them
> (the Apostolic Company I guess) and they will tell
> us what to think.
>
> When things like this were said many of us refused
> to believe them and refused to follow them. I
> stayed in the Fellowship (@Phoenix) trying to
> shepherd people from what we were hearing on the
> tapes. It was a group within the group at that
> time and when we finally were told to leave the
> church split up. One group remained with "The
> Walk" and still met in the building on 9th Street
> while the others began meeting elsewhere. I no
> longer meet with the group that left. We met for
> quite a while going through many changes together
> until they once again gave themselves over to the
> leadership of one person. He told me what I did in
> the past doesn't count and I couldn't be an elder
> unless I came up under him. But, that's a
> discussion best left for another time.


________________________________________________________

I reposted the above message because after reading many posts it seems to me that the deification of JRS and M was sometimes in the eye of the beholder and not a published teaching or doctrine other than G declaring on tape that M was the Light of Israel which also is somewhat vague as to what that really means.

I have the following two first hand account recollections: In the mid 70's I was in a service in which JRS admonished the congregation about focusing on JRS because if they continued, God would take JRS. A few years, later in another service I heard JRS say that increased focus and intercession on JRS would cause us to not focus on our own problems...a win win?

JHorning says that when some things were said about turning one's mind over to APCO many refused to believe it or follow it. If anyone cares to comment, did anyone spend years in TLWF without really believing M was the Lamp of Israel or with out engaging in idolatry? If that is too sensitive of a question for anyone to answer, I understand.

Anybody know who Robert Baron Jr. is?