7eagleswings, it is very good to hear from you. Yes, that one was one of mine, about running into people I used to go to church with. I have done that with more than one church, it is unheard of outside of the cults of people getting declared off limits if they change churches. I have gone to large dinners at people's homes and it is not unusual for five or six different types of churches to be represented. That is what is so funny about all these people, like Hargrave, claiming to be on the cutting edge of oneness in the church, it blows my mind how much Living Word is always trying to accomplish something that already exists. That type of thinking comes from living in a bubble, from shutting one's self off from the world in general. I feel for the people still there.

Well, we are in the third phase of Living Word now, I wonder what will happen, it will be fun to watch, to see who ends up in charge of the thing. I would love to know how many marriage proposals Gary Hargrave has already gotten. By next week he can pick and choose, that is if he indeed is going to be in charge of if it goes to marilyn's son by birthright. Lawyers everywhere, court cases as to who owns what property.

I hope that you post more Eagleswings...

I find myself with mixed feelings over Marilyn’s passing. Naturally, my heart goes out to her family and friends that are now grieving – I don’t like to see anyone suffer. Most of those I’ve talked with, share the same feeling. Even those who were kicked to the curb like trash for disagreeing with her – whose lives no longer mattered even after decades of service - still remain empathetic towards her. I hope in her final days she found a place of repentance for the lives she damaged instead of blaming them for her situation. I’m not sure how many of the current generation are even aware of the years of prayer for the death of family members and spouses who Marilyn perceived to be in the path of her rise to power. That way of relating is certainly not reflective of the God it claims to be the physical manifestation of.

It takes a major crisis to break the deception of cults - where people will stop and take an objective look at the facts. As in John’s death, perhaps this will be another of those times. The offering of resurrection life to the obedient did not work for John or Marilyn – neither really had it to give away – only an illusion. Perhaps some will now go back to the words of Jesus for real answers instead of listening to deceivers who are only fleecing God’s people for personal gain. Jesus said of himself that he did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many. That’s 180 degrees opposite to the leadership of TLWF. At some point, you have to decide whether you will believe John or Jesus – they are not saying the same thing – you just don’t know it until the spell is broken. Most of us have to learn the hard way why Jesus said to call no man leader, teacher, or father.

I hope there will not be a deceptive spin on Marilyn’s death as there was with John. Since John didn’t break through into resurrection life (in this life anyway) it was said he took down Satan with his death. After a few months when the dust had settled, we were back to battling Satan again – apparently he had escaped and the new doctrine was forgotten. Our only hope was that we still had the Holy Spirit in the Lamp of Israel in Marilyn. Once again, I’m sure the doctrine will change to suit current circumstances or all of God’s purposes will have been thwarted and there will be no hope. Fortunately, neither is scriptural and it’s all just foolishness – unless you happen to be in TLWF. Somehow the “facts” that John brought done Satan with his death and the Holy Spirit left with Marilyn’s death are not mentioned on TLWF website – both would be considered a big deal if actually true. I suspect the rest of Christianity would let them know just how mainstream they really are between their snickers.

I didn't know that the Living Word people thought that the Holy Spirit was embodied in Marilyn. I wonder if those people read their bibles at all. I don't really know why they even had them, they should just have gotten the literature from the leadership entirely. Why not go for broke and just reject Christianity completely, to believe such a perversion of it?

I am glad that I suggested that people pray for Marilyn and Gary, and I am glad that I did. I read what Gary said on Facebook about Marilyn praying constantly the last few weeks of her life. I hope she was repenting. Then Hargrave said that Marilyn had said for her followers to "continue bringing the kingdom of God to Earth." What kind of minds believe that they will have anything to do with bringing Christ, or the Kingdom to earth, when they do not even know what Christ said about the Kingdom in the first place?

The more I hear from reliable sources what went on in the California churches, what was taught there, what JRS himself peddled as the truth, the more that I realize that I was never in the Walk at all, the outlying churches were not anything like what happened out there.

I hope Marilyn repented. I hope Gary Hargrave does too. But I really feel like rather than continue as a church, the Living Word Fellowship should just shut the doors, burn all the literature, DVDs, this weeks, give the property to decent churches, and all of the members repent and seek salvation, and after a few years, go join a real church. I mean that.

I have never in my life heard of such absolute intentional idolatry in my life. It is sickening. It is truly sickening.

Just one last statement I want to make to add to the last post, if Marilyn was regarded as the Holy Spirit, the people in the church as well as Marilyn could be guilty of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Also, JRS, it seems to me, liked the idea of the people in the church believing that he was anybody from John the Baptist reincarnated to Moses to Jesus Christ. I hope none of them are going to spend eternity in hell, that is how serious I am about this, either the leaders or the ones that worship them. I don't like the idea of anybody going to Hell, it would be better to be obliterated or just not resurected.

I was thinking about the time that dude stood up in the service and asked something like that of John Stevens. I think about the answer that JRS gave him, I think he said something like "Bless you Happy." I think the guy's name was Happy if I remember the story correctly.

We can speculate on what JRS meant by that, and what he felt when this guy was asking him if he was Christ.

Peter told Jesus "you are the Messiah." and Jesus said "BLESSED ARE YOU SIMON, (JRS SAID BLESS YOU) Of course, JRS might have been shrugging it off. And too, that was a perfect opporunity to dispell any ideas that JRS was the Lord, right there in the middle of a church service, but it was sort of left hanging.

There are so many of those sort of situations in LIVING WORD FELLOWSHIP, where there is a little quesiton as to what really transpired. I know that JRS heard people say to him "JOHN WE KNOW WHO YOU ARRRRRRE!!" I wonder sometimes, who JRS thought he was. I have heard people that got out of it say that JRS was constantly saying on the tapes for people not to worship him. Well, I heard a lot of tapes, and I am not all that sure.

When the apostles, (*Paul and Barnabas) heard people say that they were this god or that god, even gods that were pagan statues, they tore their clothes, which was the custom for Jews when they heard blasphemy.

John Robert Stevens said "bless you Happy."

Lily Rose said:
AD you might want to read one of the strand posts on Fact Net by Mike Sthuler AKA Mischa. Mike seemed to me to be a guy with common sense and he also was a private investigator and he seemed to think that the brothers were influencing JRS during the time you mentioned. You can find the post under the Fact Net Shiloh Kalona Iowa Cult strand on page 19.

===================================

I found that last night and read two posts by Mike Sthuler on page 19. I will look and see if there are more posts by him. They were very informative and they sounded like they were written by someone reliable. I think everybody should read them.

Another good post from the "Shiloh Kalona Iowa cult strand on FactNet is number 301.

I don't think I will ever be able to ever fully decide if the ministry of JRS was for the most part good, or for the most part bad. I guess the thing to do is to take what I see to be good, and discard what I consider bad. I think that is the only way to relate to anybody about anything, the reason we are told not to judge, is because we just don't have the capacity to judge. That does not mean, of course, that we can not do our best to give every teaching and teacher a fair chance, and to look at every teaching and every teacher with a critical view, to rightly divide the word.

Sadly, what makes the Living Word a cult to begin with is their mode of operation, they do not submit their teachings to others for critical viewing, they shut themselves off from the rest of the church so that they can do and teach whatever they want. That is a set up for failure, there is no possible way that people who believe that whatever pops into their heads is always God, no way they can help but be deceived, especially self deceived.

I am sorry that is the route that JRS took, that is the root that Marilyn and Gary took. That is the route that the victims of this mess took. I can only thank God that I was not swallowed up in it myself. I am grateful to God for all of you that have had the wisdom and revelation to set yourself free from the bondage of the Living Word Fellowship.

Whether Latter Rain theology has any thing to it, it will come to light. Whether there are people in the world today visited by the Lord Himself and given a commision as apostle or prophet, well, the truth will come out, the tree is judged by the fruit.

AD,

I think what makes Mike Stuhler's posts creditable and balanced was that he self identified himself by giving his name, gave his phone number and email address, for the most part he spoke from first hand knowledge, identified when he spoke from second hand knowledge and he didn't engage in wild speculations.

In addition he didn't judge the motives or character of the leaders. Rather, and most importantly, he critiqued the doctrine and teaching of the LW to see if it lined up with scripture which is what Paul said to do.

The LW leaders have said they seek and love the Lord. I think the area for analysis and criticism is whether or not the LW teaching and doctrine is from God? I think that scripture says that should be discussed and critiqued by believers. I like when you do that. The sometimes wild speculations, not so much.

So Lilly Rose, are you now stating that any post here on the Rick Ross forum is not "credible" unless the person making the post completly identifies themself and provides scriptural references to back their statements?

I do not recall that being a requirement of this forum. As ex-cult members, yes are posts will sound biased and yes, most of them will sound critical of the LW leadership. This is because most of us received significant harm by the LW.

I may not be a "credible" RR poster, but I would like to state the following observation. In my long tenure in the LW (even until recent), I never heard Marilyn referred to as the Holy Spirit. I do not think they ever crossed that line. But it was said she was the "Lamp of Israel" and had the "Mind of Christ". Whatever that means. I think it was left to the sheep to interp that phrase. Like AD has suggested. There was worship of humans. The leaders could have stopped it, but they didn't. I witnessed that in-person.

One of the most productive things we do on this forum, is take a look at the mindset of the members of Living Word, and we look at the theology, and the beliefs of Living Word. When we do that, and compare that to the bible, it is productive. I think it would be productive to take a look at an answer to one of the posts to the gentleman that Lily Rose and I have been discussing. He left the Walk at the same time I did, and in fact, he went in just one year before I did. Here is a cut and paste of what one of the Living Word members wrote to him. I show this because this describes perfectly, in this member's own words, the mental status of the believers of the unfortionate victims, those that sadly are stuck in Living Word Fellowship. In this post, this person actually says that "God is not moving in the Earth any more, that is the reason that it is up to THEM."

****Quote***

Mike,

Even if Gary and Marilyn have made mistakes, as long as I am fully committed to them, I am under their spiritual covering. And if I am completely obedient to them, then they will answer to God if they've made an err. The main thing is to completely give myself to Gary and Marilyn, to commit and focus my spirit on them, to forget the past and any mistakes that may have been made, and really reach into the next level.

We believe everything that you do, Mike, and more. We believe in the Bible. We believe that John spoke a living Word from God and that he prophesied that the Kingdom of God is here on earth in 1979. John Robert Stevens was like John the Baptist to us. He moved in the spirit of Elijah. He was like voice calling out in the wilderness, "The Kingdom of God is here! Repent and prophesy it into existence!" John prophesied it, then He died, and in his death he took down Satan. I SAW SATAN FALL FROM HEAVEN LIKE LIGHTNING!

God is no longer moving on this earth. That's why it's up to us as His Sons to be a creative force in this earth. And that is an awesome force to be reckoned with. Marilyn's ministry is to preserve and protect John's Word from all who want to destroy it. Gary was commissioned by John to continue to bring the Word of God to a world that is longing for the truth.

Now that you have the truth in its very essence, you are responsible for it, and God will judge you according to what you do with it.

Mike, you are a very sincere man, and I hope that you are able to receive this truth into your heart. I bind the spirit of deception that is keeping you from the truth and peace that you once knew. Buy the truth and sell it not! The truth is in you. John spoke it to you, and you have received it into your heart. I believe that your are finding it, and I believe that God is showing you His love by leading you to this board.

When you are ready to come back, Gary and Marilyn are waiting for you with open arms.