changedagain Wrote:
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> Apostle Dog Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I also think that perhaps Gary Hargrave acts as
> a
> > buffer somewhat, a stabilizer for Marilyn in
> some
> > ways.
>
> Gary as a stabilizer--that's a frightening
> thought. People in TLWF have reason to worry!

I want to add a little to that post ChangedAgain,,, I didn't mean exactly that I think much of Hargrave. I still think that Marilyn married John for his money and his power, and I think Hargrave did the same thing, I think both Marilyn and Hargrave are power maniacs and I think they are greedy. BUT, I think that if Marilyn had full rein of Living Word it would even be more of a disaster than it is right now.

I have heard from reliable sources that Gary Hargrave is not the first one in leadership that Marilyn approached to marry her after John died. It seems that at the time, a woman would have a problem being the main authority at Living Word Fellowship, or that is my guess anyway. There was a huge power struggle there and I would not be surprised if God didn’t just blow on the whole thing and have it end up the way He felt it should end up. I think the better thing would have been for the various ministries affiliated with them to have continued on, after the smoke cleared and all of the churches split apart, some of the good ones should have kept going. I think Bill Maybe should have said goodbye to the Walk about the time Brent Finney did. Lots of guys that I respected hung around too long I feel like.

If there was any reason for that church to exist, I think Jezebel took all of the clout out of it, and it was shot to hell and back. I know Frangepane is still in the ministry, for whatever that is worth. I don’t know who else.

A lot of people do not want to leave TLW. It is their whole world. All their friends and sense of security is attached to this group. And maybe for some of the older members, it is best if they stay put. Hopefully TLW as they know it will outlive them.

And for many, it is sort of like long-time prisoners that decide they like it better in prison than on the outside. So much easier inside for them. They would miss that community if they left the prison.

Apostle Dog mentioned back on 9-22 the importance of forgiveness in healing bitterness. I know that what was taught in TLWF about communication dispelling deception has some merit when it comes to clearing up misunderstandings. However, where there has been an intentional wrong suffered, forgiveness seems to be the only path to freedom for the victim. It doesn't in any way justify the abuser, but it does take away the power the abuser continues to hold over the abused - often for many years after the fact. We don't have to look any further than this link for evidence of that happening. Jesus' principles are not tied to a date or Blood Moon - they work 100% of the time whenever we decide to put them into practice. Praying for our enemies (that's for their good - not for them to die as in TLWF) tends to have more of a positive effect on the one doing the praying than the one being prayed for. Although science can observe the positive effects of forgiveness, the supernatural component, which may be even more valuable, can't be measured in a test tube. There is no breakthrough into the kingdom needed - we just have to put into practice what Jesus taught. I'm convinced forgiveness is a state of being - if we really want to remain free - not just an occasional activity after we have been judge and jury.

As far as finding a perfect church is concerned, the church is the people - not a system or building. We don't go to church, we are the church 24/7 no matter where we are. He puts us together as it pleases Him. We are totally capable of reading the red letters for ourselves - somebody else doesn't have to read them to us and then give us permission to obey them - if they don't conflict with their program of course. I think we get into trouble when we start calling men (and women) leaders, teachers, and fathers which Jesus warned us about. He alone is to be all these things. The school of hard knocks we attended in TLWF should have taught us this, if nothing else. We tend to get so caught up in "revelation" that we forget we have to actually do this stuff. I would not underestimate the power of Jesus' words that have been hidden in plain sight. It seems we have to be so desperate before we even consider doing what He said to do. "If you love me, you will obey my commands." He didn't say, "If you love me you will give yourself to those who are trying to take my place." Actually , when He separates the sheep from the goats, it was based on how they treated the least of these - not the greatest. Maybe TLWF can at least hear that teaching from the Pope they seem to be so fond of.

paleface: Remember the movie "Shawshank Redemption." Andy moved on readily with his well thought out plan while Red was still needing permission just to go to the bathroom.

Good posts!!!

Perhaps it is better for the older members to just sit there and never experience freedom. Sad thing, to me, for people to sit in such bondage and the whole time think they are free. It sort of reminds me of the propaganda films shown in North Korea, where their citizens see movies about American people starving and eating their family pets. To me, it's a horrible thing to believe a lie.

From the outside looking in, the Living Word Fellowship is like flying from South Korea over North Korea, and seeing the contrast, how lit up South Korea is, and how dark North Korea is. People living in darkness and thinking the rest of the world is more dismal.

I wish I had never been affiliated with them.

Apostle Dog Wrote:
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>
>
> I wish I had never been affiliated with them.

But just think how much that former affiation causes you, now, to value your freedom so much more.

paleface wrote: "But just think how much that former affiliation causes you, now, to value your freedom so much more."

---------------------------------

There is no end to freedom. It's similar to infinity, eternity and transcendence. Romping about the Lord's highest heavens is a privilege that freedom affords. You're free to move about the playground of the Most High God.

My former designated shepherd would consider my above statement as nonsense. His only concern was earthbound power, authority and personal position in the church. Being placed under his ministry was like being chained to a monstrous slab of cement slowly sinking lower and lower in bottomless swamp mud.

The Upanishads talk about the "Pairs of Opposites in the field of time." Apostle Dog used the analogy of Light & Dark. It's true. Nothing like hell to make one appreciate heaven.

FCSLC Wrote:
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> Being placed under his ministry was like being chained to a monstrous
> slab of cement slowly sinking lower and lower in bottomless swamp mud.

Oh my. Somehow I'm going to have to work this description into one of my Amazon product reviews.
"The feeling I got after using this product is like...

larry bobo Wrote:
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> Apostle Dog mentioned back on 9-22 the importance
> of forgiveness in healing bitterness. I know that
> what was taught in TLWF about communication
> dispelling deception has some merit when it comes
> to clearing up misunderstandings. However, where
> there has been an intentional wrong suffered,
> forgiveness seems to be the only path to freedom
> for the victim. It doesn't in any way justify the
> abuser, but it does take away the power the abuser
> continues to hold over the abused - often for many
> years after the fact.

______________________________________________________________________

I find it hard to pray for or forgive wolves. Warning against wolves and false doctrine is emphasized in the NT more that love, unity, or forgiveness. Strangely absent in the NT is any command or example to pray for the wolves other than pray for our enemies who persecute us. Wolves destroy and rob and not sure if that meets the NT definition of "to persecute." Jude 13 and 2 Peter 2:17 say the wolves are "reserved" for darkness and Gal 1:6-9 "They're accursed." Maybe that's why it's hard to pray for and forgive wolves many years after the fact.