paleface:

It didn't register in my brain that I was is a cult. For years I was at constant odds (extreme inner turmoil) with the local ministries. Being obligated (heavy on obligated) to submit to another human, whether an elder or heavy duty spiritual goes against everything in my inner being.

If we're not born free to remain free, then could somebody explain to me how life can be any fun at all.

Edit above: in a cult.

There was a great deal of grooming people's minds to accept whatever came from John...and later Marilyn and Gary. Much of it was to convince everyone that much of what God did, though motivated by love, would appear unacceptable to us. What normal might relate to as abuse, or simply acts of sadism--would be explained away as discipline (aka dealings of the Lord) that would allow us to bear fruit, if we were willing to trust and persevere...which, unfortunately, many of us did.
Now, of course, as we're struggling with all the psychological bs that was dumped on us, it's obvious how duped we were. While I was heavily involved, I really didn't think of our movement as being a cult...since I was heavily brainwashed by the interpretation of scripture that came the pulpit. That said, I seldom used any of the coercive/manipulative tactics employed by the authorities over me when I shepherded people. In fact, I distinctly recalled encouraging the kids in our young adult program to, in essence, get a life apart from the fellowship. Somehow I did know it would be much healthier for than to delivering them over to Rick and company.
note: I'm not going to reread and then edit what I just wrote, since it came from a stream of consciousness--so grammatical errors be damned!



paleface Wrote:
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> So here's the question of the week for you all:
>
> When you were inside, did you ever consider that
> the Living Word might, just might, possibly be a
> cult? Did you have little nagging thoughts in the
> back of your mind? Feelings that it might be an
> unhealthy church.

Notions of God that were repeated by John to give us a certain concept of God, and make it more likely we would not bolt from--what we all know now--was/is a cult.
Note: if if you think they are inaccurate in some way, feel free to edit/correct:

John often repeating the story of how God, early in his ministry, threatening to kill him for his "withdrawal." A warning to those listening, that He would do likewise to us should we reject the word coming from the "man of God."
Note: when I left, within a week or so I received a This Week from a well-meaning member of the fellowship detailing the danger of withdrawing from 'God's word.'

John insisting that when he was starting out in his ministry if he knew of an Apostle he would crawl on his hand and knees to wherever he happened to be to learn from him. This became the mentality of many of us during those days, dropping everything at a moment's notice to follow him. Thank God, aside from giving countless hours to the Kingdom and consistently tithing, I never resorted to getting on my hands and knees...mainly because, even then, I had an assortment of sports-related injuries that to this day have not healed properly

changedagain Wrote:
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>> Now, of course, as we're struggling with all the
> psychological bs that was dumped on us, it's
> obvious how duped we were. While I was heavily
> involved, I really didn't think of our movement as
> being a cult...since I was heavily brainwashed by
> the interpretation of scripture that came the
> pulpit.

________________________________________________________________

Changeagain, do you think G&M were heavily brainwashed and duped and possibly that's why they don't see themselves as cultish?

changedagain's last post:

John insisting that when he was starting out in his ministry if he knew of an Apostle he would crawl on his hands and knees to wherever he happened to be to learn from him.
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I could speculate the whole seductive agenda of learning secrets from wizards did not originate with John. That it was already a "common tool of the trade"
for ministers (whose only livelihood was their church) to keep congregants allegiant to themselves. If TLWF stood by what they preached about Apostles, then why were other existing Apostles in TLWF readily dumped when John died?

It's extremely difficult to picture Jesus crawling on his hands and knees to the High Priest or local spiritual guru for secret knowledge and instruction.

It's also difficult to picture this: Jesus in an outrage flailing his arms and screaming, "Do it or I kill you."

Lord help us.

lily rose Wrote:
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> Changeagain, do you think G&M were heavily
> brainwashed and duped and possibly that's why they
> don't see themselves as cultish?

I don't know, Lily--and that's part of the mystery with them. I have no doubt they're calculating, exploitative, cruel...and have severely disrupted (negatively) hundreds of lives under their watch...but I don't know how they really see themselves. It's scary, but very possible, they believe they are exactly what they project to congregants--groundbreaking ministries who represent what God wants in this world.
BTW, the few direct encounters I've had with them always left me doubting myself, and literally spellbound by how certain they seemed to be about everything. That glare of disdain they have for anyone that shows reluctance to get with their program is something you don't forget.

Well, tomorrow is Sunday morning. Sometimes I think about standing up right in the middle of things and start screaming "we just bind Satan and speak that you are THE kingdom apostle, and we loose you to bring forth a pure word that we may automatically walk in every level of yada yada..." Then, if they don't throw me out, if they just let me sit back down, every time he says anything, any one sentence, scream "THAT'S RIGHT" to the top of my lungs.

I bet my wife would freak. The first one would think it was funny, but this one would absolutely freak.

Actually, if I were to stand up and start interceding for the pastor of that church I go to when I want to, if I started giving him that sort of adoration and praise and worship, I think he would call all the other pastors and elders together around me and cast out the demon. I don't know any other church that would put up with that, it would be like the woman that was following Paul and whoever his sidekick was, I think Barnabas on that occasion, giving them praise constantly, and Paul turned and cast the spirit out. That stuff don't fly in Babylon churches.

Apostle Dog wrote in part: "that church I go to when I want to"

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Those dreadful Babylonian churches where the congregates have all the freedom in the universe!