Apostledoggie,

That guy in the sports coat you wrote about in the parking lot of the Valley Church who offered you the commission was Sam the Sham. You can see him every night on TV offering prosperity, wealth, healing, sight etc. Each charismatic church has their own "special hook."

jhorning posted some zingers. I hope he doesn't mind me reposting some of them.

jhorning Wrote In Part On 1/7/11:
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> In the spirit of full disclosure I am going to
> post the responses I received concerning an
> earlier post. These came on Wednesday, January 5
> via email. The email was sent buy Matt Walkoe, who
> is listed as a Pastor, Producer, Living Word
> Publications, and oversees the school located at
> the Church of the Living Word in North Hills. I don't believe there is any expectation
> of privacy when post are made on the internet or
> sent through an email.

Matt's response:
> > "When John died I seriously considered leaving the
> Valley church because he was the one that
> commissioned me there. However, I had a very deep
> experience with the Lord and He gave my spirit to
> Marilyn. That’s very real to me. When people
> bring up these past issues about Marilyn or Gary,
> I feel like the man born blind in John 9.
> “Whether he is a sinner I do not know; one thing
> I know, that, whereas I was blind, now I see.”
> Gary and Marilyn have to answer to the Lord for
> any mistakes they may have made, but personally
> I’ve experienced a deeper and richer walk with
> God born out of my relationship and connection
> with them. I know that this isn’t real to
> everyone that sat under John’s ministry, and I
> understand that."
>


> So Gary and Marilyn sinned and they MAY have made
> mistakes, but Gary has given me sight?
>
> Colossians describes Christ in part this way: The
> Son is the image of the invisible God, the
> firstborn over all creation, He is before all
> things, and in him all things hold together, He is
> the head of the body, the church; He is the
> beginning and the firstborn from among the dead,
> so that in everything He might have the supremacy.
>
> Please, can someone tell me why God, after sending
> His Son to die for us, would give Matt's spirit to
> Marilyn? To paraphrase Paul; Was Marilyn crucified
> for you? Was she raised from the dead?
>

That is one of the craziest things I ever heard. This guy actually believes that God gave his spirit to Marilyn. I think that shows that down right insanity of the members of Living Word Fellowship, and it also shows the qualifications of Living Word ministries. There is only one qualification, and that is the cultish idolatry and the delusional thinking that their leaders are deity.

I could never make it in a ministry at Living Word, thank God I was smart enough to go back home and shake off the dust of my feet. I only wish I had never heard of John Robert Stevens or this farce of a "church."

Stevens himself had to be a fake or he would not have drawn such a following, and he certainly would have corrected them if he had not relished every bit of the worship he received from them.

AD, I agree. Something went off the track when JRS started to let the congregations exhault him like that. He should have stopped them. I guess it was just too seductive for him.

paleface Wrote:
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> AD, I agree. Something went off the track when
> JRS started to let the congregations exalt him
> like that. He should have stopped them. I guess
> it was just too seductive for him.
ve

I wonder...did he actually fully believe he was Christ in the flesh, the door opener apostle? If so, how much of a role did those close to him have in convincing him of this?
I recall, post-John, being subjected to countless messages regarding the importance of 'Christ in the flesh,' suggesting that even doubting this "truth" was a grievous offense to God. Of course, the first application of this was always to the top leaders. No excuse to those of us that were given to this, or those that still are, but the level of brain-washing was was mind-boggling (pun not intended). I figure I attended over 4000 services/church meetings during my tenure there.

p.s. still my favorite question posed to John from the congregation is this one: 'IF YOU ARE NOT THE CHRIST, THAN WHO THE HELL ARE YOU?'
--Happy Clark

Matt:
> When people
> bring up these past issues about Marilyn or Gary,
> I feel like the man born blind in John 9.
> “Whether he is a sinner I do not know; one thing
> I know, that, whereas I was blind, now I see.”

Of course, so many have the opposite experience--they are able to see matters of a spiritual nature after first disconnecting from Gary and Marilyn.

The whole point of putting a man in such a position as being the ultimate authority is to make them feel good about it, and then manipulate them. You can’t really manipulate a golden calf, they just sit there and look like a very expensive farm animal. But you can manipulate a man. When that man gets all full of himself, he will give special favors to those that made such an idol out of him. See, it works both ways. The inner circle, especially Marilyn could get what she wanted out of John Robert Stevens. The “apostles” in APCO sure got what they wanted, power, money, respect, fear in the hearts of the little people, the people that made them into mini-idols too. There was lots of manipulation in that group.

Man is the ultimate idol. When it boils down to it, the Antichrist is a man, not a golden calf. A golden calf is an idol, but a man is a much worse idol.

Apostle Dog Wrote:
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> The “apostles” in APCO sure got what they wanted,
> power, money, respect, fear in the hearts of the
> little people, the people that made them into
> mini-idols too.

Well, in some cases. The three apostolic ministries I knew were concerned for the welfare of those they ministered to. And once losing the backing of Marilyn and Gary, and subsequently shunned from the fellowship, suffered both financially and in their sense of self-worth. Yeah, while in the ministry they were on a power trip--at least to some extent--but they also seemed to give a damn about those 'under' their ministry, something I found refreshing.

Changedagain I didn't mean all of them were worthless, I knew a few of the APCO bunch that were good too. The ones that were worth anything were out of there pretty fast when the new regime took over, after John was out of the way . Gary Hargrave now, all he had to do was be the perpetual “that’s right,” man on all the tapes. I remember I couldn’t hardly hear the word for him saying “that’s right.” The kiss ups got the whole show, all the money, and the power. Anybody that did care about the people got the door.

Oh, I meant to add, in my last post, that we all know what assets the Lamp of Israel had to convince the apostle to the kingdom that she would be the perfect one to boost him to higher and higher levels.

An idol can be manipulated. People don't put someone on the pedestal just for the heck of it. Once they are up there, they can be useful to the ones that put them there. Next thing you know, the old idol falls and the new idol takes it's place.

Apostle Dog Wrote:
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> At one time, we were fascinated with Living Word
> because of the “word” about resurrection life,
> but now that resurrection life turned out to be a
> dud...


Ha. The Kingdom in 1979 also a dud.

Changedagain, did you attend the Unfolding that was held in San Diego? From what I have read, much bad blood among the brothers began there and continued maybe due to ambition and who would be greatest (have the most power). So that when Gary took over there was an absence of support for him. Possibly some of the brothers left because of that.

The friend I mentioned previously (regarding his arranged marriage) told me that he thought the commission of G&M was questionable and my friend thought it was a coup, a power grab. Also, I remember reading on factnet that Larry Cotton was to have been part of the commission mantle with G&M. If that info is accurate, I think Larry would have added a balance to the mantle. Do you know anything about that?