Invisible and Cloudwatcher thanks for your input and fresh insights.

Invisble your post gave me more food for thought. Your said, "The members were led to believe that by unconditionally obeying the ministry they were giving themselves to a deeper and purer devotion to God--in their serving of God. Before the members of TLW church were led to give the ministry control of their lives - the TLW leaders were not being related to as the absolute spiritual authority over the members lives. (Unconditional Obedience) to the ministry became a"Doctrine" of the TLW Church but it can also be seen as being the precepts of men by what Jesus was saying and addressing in Mark Chapter 7." That's how people were forced to live during the Dark Ages. If anyone is a history buff correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that exactly what the Reformation movement fought against, for depriving individuals their freedom to approach God directly without the involvement, meddling, intrusion of the unbiblical Catholic priests. I understand it that people like their pastor to study and interpret scripture for them; however, in this day and age with the rise of religious cults and secular cults if you don't want to be fooled or abused, IMHO you have to dig deep to discover for yourself authentic spiritual leaders or gurus including the true gospel.

Cloudwatcher yes,it is so difficult to leave a cult and frightening and there is much loss associated with leaving but much to gain in getting relief from the pressure, duress, and harm of the "undue influence." You totally get it about the brainwashing and undue influence. I've learned from your posts. I kind of see it this way.. free will while temporarily distorted and restricted while in the cult can be restored outside of the cult but the process and end result seems to be unique to each individual.

Lily Rose,

You posted......That's how people were forced to live during the Dark Ages. If anyone is a history buff correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that exactly what the Reformation movement fought against, for depriving individuals their freedom to approach God directly without the involvement, meddling, intrusion of the unbiblical Catholic priests.....

Lily,
My perspective is that of a layman.

starting way back in history
I think:

every church that exists - exists because it broke away - from an existing church - having had a major doctrinal or possibly a political disagreement of some kind.

So there are probably many 1000's of different churches today that exist - with their own doctrines, teachings and fellowships which are available for anyone to become a member of - if they wish to.

The way I define for myself ( a cult is ) - any religious institution that is not recognized as being legitimate by some of the Traditional Major Denominational Churches.

But I also have to consider that those Major Denominations of the church each consider their own Institution as being legitimate - but the major traditional denominations - also exist because they broke away from a Major existing church because of some major disagreement.

Invisible that's a good point. Within the Walk I am aware that Francis Frangipane, David Cokas, and Mike Sthuler (he was from Southgate and has a different name now which I can't remember) all broke away from the LW and started their own churches. Maybe there are others we don't know about. There was discussion on the forum that G&M feared that John Miller might have taken a following with him when he left but it appears that didn't happen. Apostle Dog once posted that he wished his small group had formed a church after John died. During my time, I recall many ministries had aspirations and felt a call to be pastors. Then when the second or third generation took over it was as if the first generation was put out to pasture.

For myself I think there are probably many ministries in the world who have charisma and aren't cultish so I don't rely too much on the charisma factor in my thinking about cults. I think most likely charisma is probably in the eye of the beholder. I don't think G&M had/have the charisma factor but I think G was/is a persuasive communicator with the ability to highjack minds.

BTW if I had started a new church after I broke away I would have borrowed from Ravi Zacharias and called it "Let My People Think" and made sure there were no work days. lol



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2017 04:28AM by lily rose.

I think because of our conditioning in TLWF, as well as mainstream Christianity, the first place we tend to look for answers in our spiritual journey is another pastor or church denomination, instead of going directly to Jesus as He taught us we should do. Jesus said in Matthew 23:4-12, “4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. 5 “Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries[a] wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7 they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others. 8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. 11 The greatest among you will be your servant. 12 For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

The beginning of a new life for me was when I finally took seriously, “for you have ONE instructor, the Messiah” instead of pursuing all the competing voices offering something they did not even possess to give. I know the 30+ difficult years I gave of my life to TLWF had very little value to John or Marilyn. The ashes and destruction I received in return for believing a lie are certainly worth warning others about so that they do not make the same mistake. They would feign appreciation as long as they could use you for their benefit, but as soon as you disagreed, all that mattered was getting you out the door so you did not influence the others they were using. Often, what you pointed out would end up being dealt with after you were gone, because it really was destructive – especially as it related to the authority structure. Not everyone that feels pain and speaks up is a Nephilim. In hindsight, the term was nothing more than childish name calling - a control technique our new President also seems to be adept at. Those who have left TLWF know exactly what I’m talking about.

The question that now needs to be asked is, “How did the resurrection life they promised to others, in exchange for their obedience, work out for them?” Of course, they never had it to give – they are now dead – at least as far as this life is concerned. For Gary to claim they are continuing to run things from the cloud of witnesses and to take advantage of others, when he obviously knows better, is beyond me. The fact that he is even claiming to talk to the dead for direction should be a red flag to those who have read what God says about it. Eventually, we all learn the hard way what happens when we place more value on the teachings of men than the teachings of Jesus. I love the cowboy proverb: “Always drink upstream from the herd.” – the very thing Jesus told us to do from the beginning.

Excellent proverb !!!

" I love the cowboy proverb: “Always drink upstream from the herd.” – the very thing Jesus told us to do from the beginning "

LOL - excellent.

Excellent message Larry.

When I read verse 11 and 12 in the context of the whole of Scriptures you quoted to convey - ( that it is Jesus Words to us that we are to keep and to abide in) -In reading your post another thought that came to mind is that - it is to Jesus Himself one humbles him/herself to - to receive, to keep and to abide in His Words of instruction.

larry bobo Wrote:

"I know the 30+ difficult years I gave of my life to TLWF had very little value to John or Marilyn. The ashes and destruction I received in return for believing a lie are certainly worth warning others about so that they do not make the same mistake. They would feign appreciation as long as they could use you for their benefit, but as soon as you disagreed, all that mattered was getting you out the door so you did not influence the others they were using. Often, what you pointed out would end up being dealt with after you were gone, because it really was destructive – especially as it related to the authority structure. Not everyone that feels pain and speaks up is a Nephilim. In hindsight, the term was nothing more than childish name calling - a control technique our new President also seems to be adept at. Those who have left TLWF know exactly what I’m talking about."

Yes--true

Larry who knew a cowboy proverb would be such a hit with Walkers. Hee Haw

Invisible Wrote in Part:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Now you know that in many cases the members of TLW
> were not being "permitted" by the ministry to
> associate any longer with their own parent or
> parents, and the members obeyed the ministry in
> order to keep the commitment they had made to God
> - to unconditionally obey the ministry. The
> members were led to believe that by
> unconditionally obeying the ministry they were
> giving themselves to a deeper and purer devotion
> to God - in their serving of God.
>
> The ministry and the members of TLW were setting
> aside the Commandment of God (To Honor Your Father
> and Mother ) also thus invalidating the Word of
> God to themselves. But in reality by doing this -
> they were submitting to giving their lives to
> serving a Doctrine and Precept of men. In this
> their hearts become far from God and their worship
> of God is in vain.


The A&E investigation into Scientology highlighted the destructiveness of the Scientology practice prohibiting children from relating to their parents who are outside the church. They call it "disconnect," and it's reported that many parents in desperation have raised money to erect billboards on Sunset Blvd near the Scientology Center that says, "Call Me."

The LW does the same thing in perverting and twisting the scripture at Matt 12:46-50. In this scripture Jesus did not say that His mother and brothers were not His family anymore and that He disowned them or that the disciples replaced His mother and brothers as His "new family." He didn't say His mother and brothers weren't important to Him and didn't tell anyone to disown their relatives, shun them, or not communicate with their relatives anymore. Jesus didn't cut off His mother and brothers--He extended His family to everyone who trusts God. You can't honor your parents if you don't communicate with them or spend time with them. The LW's twisting of Matt 12:46-50 takes away the decency and compassion of Jesus's intention in extending His family to all believers.

IMO a huge error on the part of the LW leadership is they don't teach that during the time Jesus ministered it was common for the Jewish Rabbis to use hyperbole in their teaching and Jesus following the Jewish customs of the time used hyperbole in communicating to the Jews and multitudes. If you care to look at the following link, I think you might find some fresh insights into how the LW's literal interpretation of what Jesus said about families is erroneous, misleading and was not the intent of Jesus. Rather the LW scripture twisting is in fact destructive to families: [www.equip.org]