Thank you Sarge for your honest and heartfelt posts. Really love them.

For me, with the whole DR crap, I really got tired to trying to be God to someone, and direct their life. Or make them do something they didn't want to do. It was wrong! wrong! wrong!

It was hard for me to do, exposing myself to the group. I don't know you and you don't know me. But I wanted the group to see my paradigm to give context to my comments. The sense of betrayal is the last vestige I have not shaken from my enounter. Half my life with a group of people should have accounted for something in terms of relationships, but it didn't. So I shake the dust off my sandals and move on. I appreciate this forum to be random retrospective and talking to myself in a group. Thanks for being a mirror.

changedagain Wrote:
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> Thanks for sharing your experiences/background
> with the group, Sarge.

I won't join any church again either. But then I never formerly joined the Living Word Fellowship. My own opinion about the whole mess, is I think whole thing should have closed up and everybody go their separate ways when John Stevens died. The only thing that would be better than it just ending there, is if it had never begun in the first place. I think the whole thing was a flop.

I have no plans of being involved with another church as well. Even if Denzel Washington called me up and insisted I do it--I doubt I would be swayed. Maybe if Harrison Ford, Clint Eastwood, Ryan Gosling, Jenny Lewis and Bill Murray all called on the same day insisting I do it...I might give it some thought.

Although I haven't visited this forum in over a month to read or post, today I received an email that my name was appearing as a poster. While checking on this, I found a healing declaration from TheSarge recounting his time in the LW. Congrads for surviving and still having a walk with God. That's Good News!

I only had time to read the posts for the past day and would like to follow up with Sarge on his comment that he was aware that Martha was embezzling. This is what I remember having worked on and off in the LW accounting. Martha was not authorized to sign LW checks. During the divorce the lawyers were asking for LW financial info and it was rumored that one of the lawyers was raising a charge of embezzlement to counter Martha's claims regarding the finances of JRS. One thing I have learned is there are two sides to every dispute.

Sarge, I am not saying you are lying so please don't get paranoid crazy on me
(and feel as though you have to PM me as one cry baby poster did) because I have doubted your information.

Over the past month I found that not participating in this forum or reading has been really helpful to me in letting go of the past as it relates to the LW. I like what Jan Lane recommended about checking in now and then to see how the extended family is doing.

Lily Rose, no worries. I have no ego!

lily rose Wrote:
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> Sarge, I am not saying you are lying so please
> don't get paranoid crazy on me
> (and feel as though you have to PM me as one cry
> baby poster did) because I have doubted your
> information.

TheSarge Wrote:
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> Eventually the route
> was made to accommodate celebrities like Denzel
> Washington. The truck would stay in front of his
> house upwards to 15 minutes. No was allowed to
> talk to him except who Rick said could.

If I was given permission:
MERRY CHRISTMAS, DENZEL! I'VE WATCHED 'GLORY' 12 TIMES...GREAT MOVIE!!!

First of all, I want to thank TheSarge for posting and vulnerably sharing your experiences in TLWF. I know that I sure appreciate each additional viewpoint that turns on a little more light for everyone. One thing you shared that has been a common experience for those who have left TLWF is, ”I was immediately shunned and the 30+ years of relationships, standing shoulder to shoulder in the trenches, and all the years of service were wiped out as though I didn't exist. In just a snap of their fingers.” You also said, “The sense of betrayal is the last vestige I have not shaken from my encounter. Half my life with a group of people should have accounted for something in terms of relationships, but it didn't”. When you still have the same love for people in TLWF that you always had, it’s shocking to find out the feeling is not mutual if you disagree with what is being taught – especially if you are sincerely after the truth and thought they were too. Those that are still involved in TLWF probably have no idea what you are talking about. The rollercoaster ride of going from having a false sense of significance by being in a band of super sons to the also false sense of insignificance of being all alone is quite traumatic - even though neither is true. The relationships in TLWF are not free, and you don’t really know who your friends are until they are also free.

I would suspect the same is true in our relationship with God. It’s one thing to be carried along by a charismatic leader or peer pressure. It’s quite another to be motivated solely by our personal relationship with God. How many would pray all night for John in the Siege and not even be willing to open a Bible when they are just by themselves and can do whatever they please. Now you finally have the opportunity to find out what is really in your heart. I know that I may be the odd man out on this site, (as well as with other relationships with former members who will not even look at this site) but I love the local church. By church, I don’t mean a system or hierarchy, but people – others in the Father’s family that are found in many churches.

Many of us have 60+ years into this life, and we have learned some very difficult lessons along the way. We know now what happens when we allow a leader to take the place of God or a system to take the place of living relationships. Many who have said they would never again be a part of a church are functioning as a church on this site, and they don’t realize it. The fact that you love and care about people is church. Whatever our gifts happen to be, they are for the Body, not for ourselves. We were never meant to live in isolation. The hand only gets its sense of purpose – and also its life - when it’s connected to the rest of the Body. If we see life the way we did at 20, we’ve just wasted 40 years. There are thousands of 20-somethings that need to hear what we’ve learned and a few leaders that need the lights turned on and their deeds exposed.

Maybe we were shown the door if we spoke up in TLWF, but that has not been my experience in other churches. The Body needs for us to be courageous and speak up, not hide. I bit my tongue once thinking it was submission, and it didn’t work out very well. I’ve also spoken up thinking I’d be escorted out and so be it – it wasn’t my first time around the mountain - only to find some incredible relationships. There are so many people that really love God after suffering terrible hardships - that have been through the fire - and they are a force to be reckoned with – only this time it isn’t in fantasy land.

Larry, that is very powerful and true: "There are so many people that really love God after suffering terrible hardships - that have been through the fire - and they are a force to be reckoned with – only this time it isn’t in fantasy land." And I know the Scripture about not neglecting gathering together. A group is more powerful than an individual. So thank you for those wise words.

However, I'm not yet ready or an organized church participation. I've gone to a couple of charismatic services with friends, and I found myself not knowing how to act during worship! I felt I had to restrain myself so as to not stand out! HA Yep, JRS was right: this Walk has darn near ruint me!

This forum has seen a significant uptick in both activity and content in recent days. Thank you, Sarge, for your valuable contributions and perspective. It never ceases to amaze what far-reaching effects TLW has had on so many lives. Oftentimes the closer you were or the higher you climbed the worse the damage.

Larry B. brought up some interesting points. First, that relationships within TLW are not free, and it is not until freedom is attained on both sides of the equation that you really know who your friends are. Second, that family is found wherever you find it, in or out of church. We currently live in a community where we have the most loving relationships we have ever had, free of all conditions, and something that was never an experience within TLW where the Kingdom was supposed to be relationships.

Relationship was always meant to be founded in LOVE, not doctrine. As I regularly say, ‘LOVE begat more LOVE, and thus we came into BEING.’ When attempts are made from any human level to organize and orchestrate artificial and arbitrary relationships based on anything but LOVE, disaster is always the result. History is replete with examples, be they political, religious, or commercial.

Even though this forum may never result in any face-to-face meetings with its participants, it has already established relationships on a ground common to seeking TRUTH, in whatever form. What better foundation could there be for LOVE to take up residence?