Changedagain,

I did an online search for Hargrave's Oahu residence and found the property tax records (it's a public record otherwise I wouldn't post it) which indicates their home was purchased in 2005 for $1,750,000.00 and they paid an additional $300,000.00 in renovations. There's a pool. The 2014 property tax assessment values the home at $2,858,000. The market value could be higher. Also, the 2/20/14 property taxes in the amount of $4792.00 are past due. I don't know if they live in the home or perhaps rent it, but they are the owners.

I salute you for thinking about the retired pastors, and there are most likely many little people who served for many years not as leaders but as sheep and they possibly struggle financially too in their retirement.

The Hargraves also have a couple properties in So. California but most of the records indicate the home values are less than $500,000.

That is a sweet property, half an acre on a cul de sac ending at the water. Zillow has it estimated at $3.59M. It's all public info and was easy enough to find online, but I have no problem sharing the address if anyone wants to view it.

When arrested, all Jesus owned were the clothes he stood in.

A note about 'sweet properties' such as the one described above:

It isnt only what one must pay by way of taxes.

A big property eats money. And in a multitude of ways.

Roofs need fixing. Pipes and circuits
wear out and have to be replaced.

* Unless the owner does his or her own gardening and housekeeping,
such a property requires maid service. Who cleans the toilets and
shops for the food? Are they paid a fair days wage for a fair day's
work?

* Gardens require upkeep. Do they do it themselves or hire someone?
If so, are they paying a fair days wage for a fair day's work?

"The laborer is worthy of his hire".

*Swimming pools -- require servicing. Often, owners are required by
insurance companies to put fencing, covers and a lock on access
to the pool.

* Property owners may be responsible for maintaining trees
and pavement within the property line, and perhaps
some part of a roadway leading to the property if it is
in the countryside.

* Utilities - water, electricity, gas

* Insurance - property, liability, and insurance costs increase
if the property has a pool. In some places, you must pay earthquake
insurance.

* Furnishings -- carpets, windows, furniture, kitchen equipment, bedding
furnace, washing machine, drier, refrigerator, freezer.

(The latter can be cheaply had if purchased at Goodwill and yard sales (smiling)

Food, paper goods -- costs depend on owner's tastes.

Buyers clubs (such as Costco) can be oh so helpful here.

Then, there are the unexpected incidents.

A mother skunk or racoon starting a family under a porch.

Bees or wasps building a colony too close for comfort.

The specialist called in to help -- he or she reqires payment.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2014 10:42PM by corboy.

Perhaps I have an attitude given that I was one of the ones that helped maintain one of their LA homes, now sold, on a volunteer basis while living just above the poverty line. Doing O.K. now...you know, once I started putting a bit of emphasis on my own life. What a novel concept. It only took me 21 years for that to sink through!

p.s. BTW, did Gary ever change his mind, and grant Miller his pension? Nevermind...bad spirit. Sorry.

lily rose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Changedagain,

> I salute you for thinking about the retired
> pastors, and there are most likely many little
> people who served for many years not as leaders
> but as sheep and they possibly struggle
> financially too in their retirement.

Thanks

>
> The Hargraves also have a couple properties in So.
> California but most of the records indicate the
> home values are less than $500,000.

Yeah, that's in the range. The one on Acre was bought for $565,000 in 2005. Not sure whether they own property in Brasil.

Ephesians 4 talks about foundational ministries being given as gifts to the body so that the body would be built up - not the body being given as gifts to the ministries so that the ministries would be built up as many religious leaders have done. The personal enrichment, whether money or power, at the expense of followers is nauseating. The “upward flow” that is taught in TLWF is exactly opposite to what the scriptures teach. Jesus didn’t come to be served, but to serve and give his life for others. God gives honor to the part that lacks, not degrades and abuses them when they can no longer be used for personal gain. He gives them freedom of choice – not demands they come under His control – unless they freely surrender to Him out of love. However, there does come a day when He separates the sheep from the goats and the criteria for separation is how they treated “the least of these my brethren”.

It’s interesting to me how many people’s lives have turned out for the better after they were no longer under the oppression of TLWF – even without God’s help - just doing common sense things that were neglected for so many years. I know there have been efforts to sanitize TLWF so that it appears as nominal Christianity, but there is a reason people are not told Marilyn is God and must be worshipped up front. There is a reason people are not told initiatially that if they obey her, the reward will be resurrection life. These are the deeper mysteries that are saved for later when you can no longer think for yourself. They are also BS.

Before people give away their lives, they might want to examine how well that worked for John Stevens. Actually, they might want to see how well that is working for Marilyn – you can’t give away something you don’t possess. Ministering judgment towards those who refuse to obey you only comes back on your own head – even if you blame the “disobedient” for your personal rebellion against God. They might try ministering love as Jesus taught – if they are really “Christ in the flesh”. At least the karma will be better.

At some point, the spell is broken and you begin to realize how foolish it all is. Unfortunately for most of us, by the time we came to our senses, much of our lives had been wasted and our wallets were empty. In most cases, the real Jesus gets blamed for something he had nothing to do with and God’s sons are rendered impotent – just as planned.

The LW pastors in Colorado like to drive super large SUVs. When asked about the gas mileage, they said it was no worry, as the church paid their petrol bills.

changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


BTW, did Gary ever change his mind, and
grant Miller his pension?

_______________________________________________________

Great news. According to Linkedln, Miller is not making minimum wage as a Walmart greeter; he's President and CEO of his own company. Go Miller!

larry bobo Wrote:

> I know there have been efforts to sanitize TLWF so
> that it appears as nominal Christianity, but there
> is a reason people are not told Marilyn is God and
> must be worshipped up front. There is a reason
> people are not told initiatially that if they obey
> her, the reward will be resurrection life. These
> are the deeper mysteries that are saved for later
> when you can no longer think for yourself. They
> are also BS.
_________________________________________________________________

M is God and must be worshipped just blows my mind. How could TLWF morph into such BS? I am so grateful GOD says he is constant. This is the deep mystery, God doesn't change.

larry bobo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It’s interesting to me how many people’s lives
> have turned out for the better after they were no
> longer under the oppression of TLWF – even
> without God’s help - just doing common sense
> things that were neglected for so many years.

Yes--so true.