Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
Chaos1952
()
Date: August 14, 2013 07:03AM
I have always wondered if somebody might have profited from the death of JRS, and that maybe there was a reason most have not thought of that his body was not autopsied or touched in any way.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
Chaos1952
()
Date: August 14, 2013 10:22AM
"John claimed to have been transported 7 years into the future to see the Kingdom and to have returned from his several-hour long vision disoriented. One of the girls affiliated with the Blix House later claimed to have been with him that day."
Wow Saw-enough, that girl must have put something on ole John if she got him disoriented. Those Blix girls they say were awesomely anointed, I guess they were right.
Wow Saw-enough, that girl must have put something on ole John if she got him disoriented. Those Blix girls they say were awesomely anointed, I guess they were right.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
Chaos1952
()
Date: August 14, 2013 10:31AM
I think all in all the old Walk was pretty much a typical charismatic church, much like the ones today that do all the animal noises and head shaking and "giving birth" in the floor, you know they have apostles and prophets too. They don't think they are going to become super saints with eternal life without "that Jesus dude" coming though. JRS may have had dillusions of grandeur but he was not in my estimation the scam artists that the new Walk leadership is. I would not put anything past the dynamic duo, including getting John Stevens out of the way if they thought he was going to set up any form of reasonable church government that took away from them the exalted positions they both craved so much. The old Walk was rather silly, but the new Walk is downright dangerous, IMHO...........
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
Chaos1952
()
Date: August 14, 2013 10:43AM
Paleface says: " The lead sheep was supposed to be "Christ in the Flesh" to the submissive sheep. The submissive sheep was to regard the lead sheep's directives as if they came from God. I was there. I heard all of this with my own ears. I also saw the terrible damage it did when it went wrong."
You know, for years when I was in the Walk I got tire to death listening to the submit, submit, submit, and the continuous talk about the various ministries. With all that dominant and submissive stuff being spewed I think there is a serous sado-masochism thang goin on in the Living Word Fellowship.
You know, for years when I was in the Walk I got tire to death listening to the submit, submit, submit, and the continuous talk about the various ministries. With all that dominant and submissive stuff being spewed I think there is a serous sado-masochism thang goin on in the Living Word Fellowship.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
Invisible
()
Date: August 14, 2013 11:49AM
............what is submission any way?
-------------------------------------------
The dictionary definition and meaning of submission - is to yield or surrender ( ones self ) to the will or authority of another.
About 15 years ago, I asked an acquaintance , who was a senior police officer - who explained to me, that if a person is going to a church and chooses to give up or surrender their own will - to do the will of another person and chooses - to allow others to make decisions for them and over their lives, that this is not against the law.
Also, he explained to me, If you want to give yourself and your life and all you have to a cause - you can do this. It is not against the law.
As long as those who are in charge of that cause are themselves subjecting themselves to the laws of the land in all that they do they won't be in jeopardy of being punished by the law..
It is not against the law to give your life to someone else to serve their will and it is not against the law to take another man's life and use his life to serve your will, as long as you are abiding with in the law.
Every one has a free will and if any one decides to surrender their self, to another person, to do the will of an other person - they are free to do so.
People are also free to live their lives as free people who are free to make decisions for their own self and their life as long as they abide with in the laws of the state they are in
People also have the freedom to build a life for their self and for their own family. To at will help any one they see who is in need. To give or not to give, to give away or to keep what is theirs
And if a person or religious organization takes every thing you legally give them, the law is not going to punish them if they did not break the law, in taking or receiving from you, everything you gave them.
The law of the land is the authority that all the citizens answer to. The officers of a church corporation are not above the law nor are any of it's members. The key ministries , know they are not ( thee ) higher authority - this is why they have lawyers to make sure they are abiding with in the law. If they break the law they know they are vulnerable to be punished by the law - even as much as to have their license revoked as a church organization. In order to do business as a church organization they signed a binding legal agreement saying they would operate and do their business under the laws of the State they are located in.
The law does not require you to give up your free will in order to be a member in a church.
At this moment in time - if you wish to serve the will of religious men, you are free to do so and - you are also free to choose not to do so.
Christ died to set men free from the religious requirements men put on one another, those things that are not of God. . The religious leaders had a difficult time in dealing with the freedom that Christ had - He healed the sick on the Sabbath. He was doing no harm yet they opposed His freedom. He lived His life in the religious community as a free man.
Jesus made known where He received the Freedom He was given - to live His own life and the freedom to make decisions for Himself and His Life.
He said no man takes My life, I lay it down and I take it up, this ( Commandment ) I received from My Father. The Father commanded Him to stay free.
-------------------------------------------
The dictionary definition and meaning of submission - is to yield or surrender ( ones self ) to the will or authority of another.
About 15 years ago, I asked an acquaintance , who was a senior police officer - who explained to me, that if a person is going to a church and chooses to give up or surrender their own will - to do the will of another person and chooses - to allow others to make decisions for them and over their lives, that this is not against the law.
Also, he explained to me, If you want to give yourself and your life and all you have to a cause - you can do this. It is not against the law.
As long as those who are in charge of that cause are themselves subjecting themselves to the laws of the land in all that they do they won't be in jeopardy of being punished by the law..
It is not against the law to give your life to someone else to serve their will and it is not against the law to take another man's life and use his life to serve your will, as long as you are abiding with in the law.
Every one has a free will and if any one decides to surrender their self, to another person, to do the will of an other person - they are free to do so.
People are also free to live their lives as free people who are free to make decisions for their own self and their life as long as they abide with in the laws of the state they are in
People also have the freedom to build a life for their self and for their own family. To at will help any one they see who is in need. To give or not to give, to give away or to keep what is theirs
And if a person or religious organization takes every thing you legally give them, the law is not going to punish them if they did not break the law, in taking or receiving from you, everything you gave them.
The law of the land is the authority that all the citizens answer to. The officers of a church corporation are not above the law nor are any of it's members. The key ministries , know they are not ( thee ) higher authority - this is why they have lawyers to make sure they are abiding with in the law. If they break the law they know they are vulnerable to be punished by the law - even as much as to have their license revoked as a church organization. In order to do business as a church organization they signed a binding legal agreement saying they would operate and do their business under the laws of the State they are located in.
The law does not require you to give up your free will in order to be a member in a church.
At this moment in time - if you wish to serve the will of religious men, you are free to do so and - you are also free to choose not to do so.
Christ died to set men free from the religious requirements men put on one another, those things that are not of God. . The religious leaders had a difficult time in dealing with the freedom that Christ had - He healed the sick on the Sabbath. He was doing no harm yet they opposed His freedom. He lived His life in the religious community as a free man.
Jesus made known where He received the Freedom He was given - to live His own life and the freedom to make decisions for Himself and His Life.
He said no man takes My life, I lay it down and I take it up, this ( Commandment ) I received from My Father. The Father commanded Him to stay free.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
paleface
()
Date: August 14, 2013 09:20PM
Welcome Saw Enough and thank you for that post. I agree with it 100%
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
FCSLC
()
Date: August 15, 2013 07:20AM
Quote: Invisible August 13, 2013 11:49PM
Freedom & Submission. Excellent. Liberating. On the level of that which is termed, "self evident."
Thank you!
Freedom & Submission. Excellent. Liberating. On the level of that which is termed, "self evident."
Thank you!
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
GloriousHistory
()
Date: August 15, 2013 09:17AM
I'm also grateful you posted this, Saw enough:
Quote
Saw enough
It would be nice if churches, like doctors, took an oath to "First, do no harm."
The Living Word Fellowship has been marked by a series of abusive relationships and a lack of transparency, dating back to its beginning. For example:
Sexual abuse was common in churches like Anaheim, San Diego, Washington Iowa, the Valley, Brazil, the Bay Area, the Living Word Building and countless others.
Funds were misappropriated in ventures like Brazil and the ill-fated silver mine.
There was always secrecy around the function of the Blix House as a cover for John & Marilyn's relationship while he was married.
Hundreds of people were spiritually mistreted by their shepherds -- shamed, driven out, "blown out," shunned, put on demeaning discipline programs or publicly called out in the name of the work of the cross.
John claimed to have been transported 7 years into the future to see the Kingdom and to have returned from his several-hour long vision disoriented. One of the girls affiliated with the Blix House later claimed to have been with him that day. John may have also fathered a child -- some of these things were commonly talked about by people in the know or by younger kids but who knows if it was ever addressed publicly?
Secrecy surrounding John's last days, when commissions were given and authority changed hands to Marilyn Stevens and Gary Hargrave. Chaos surrounding John's death when some people claimed to feel a freedom and release in their spirits and others angrily took over services to demand John's resurrection because "We need our father back." Gary later announced that John had taken down Satan with his death. This may or may not be believed still.
Manipulative relationships, breakups, divorces, remarriages, affairs, and more remarriages.
The assignment of "designated relationships" where people were instructed to submit to relationships as to Christ. Sometimes this took the form of husbands being told to submit to their wives, pastors to church members, everyone to Marilyn and Gary, old people to young people. Many of these relationships deteriorated into abuse, but the leadership just moved on to the next subject.
Abusive relationships where Marilyn was allowed to vent her anger at the people because they had "violated" her spirit or not paid enough respect. Commissions doled out to those who were the most violent supporters of Marilyn. Angry sermons from the new pastors about either getting with the revelation that Marilyn was Christ in the earth or getting the hell out of the church were common. Mathematicians would be required to count the number of regime changes that have taken place in churches, schools, relationships and businesses in the last 25 years.
Hiring of public relations experts to improve their image. Cleansing their website from all of their defensive "We are not a cult" arguments and "debunking the myths" terminology and presenting themselves as a mainstream Christian church.
Claims that everything is different now, although the same patterns of controlling shepherding structures remain in place.
Always with the claim that they were on the front lines of creating change in the earth. Fasting and prayer to control the outcome of elections. Then when the results were disappointing to most of the people in the congregation being told that it was okay because in reality they are commissioned to control the nations through their prophecy, according to the vision from John. Or now being told that Gary & Marilyn's prayers for the Catholic church resulted in the election of the current pope, who seems almost too good to be true because he believes in weird things like mercy and not being judgmental. Maybe they can bathe in the reflected glory of someone else.
If they were just their own echo chamber and met together to reassure each other that they were awesome, perhaps they would not do much harm. But because they continue to come down with such a heavy hand on people, I do not think it is wrong for people to say somewhere like on this forum, "It seems that these people have done more harm than good."
And for sure, it can be helpful for those who have left to hear that perhaps they are not blowouts or destined for judgment -- maybe they are just free from an organization that might not have been in their best interests, and they are free to seek the Lord personally, to find their own way with the life they've been given. You can't distrust your own intuition and leading and live a confident life. Better to follow it, learn from your mistakes or where you thought you were hearing God but maybe weren't, and enjoy the journey.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
Invisible
()
Date: August 16, 2013 03:32AM
Ref: Freedom and Submission.
In the mind set of things being self evident - glad to have had the opportunity to share this with you and any one who may have gained helpful insight from it. I received more of an understanding from it, not at the time I heard it - but later I received more of an awareness and a better understanding, that I should respect the rights of others to live the life they choose to live.
Now hopefully in writing more I won't touch their right and their freedom to live the kind of life they choose to live , not just these but any one's right to live their own lives.
The acquaintance I referenced in a previous communication I made ( the senior police officer) was never a member of the church but one of his close relatives had attended the church for over a year and when his relative was faced with having to make a decision whether they would submit their life to the shepherds or not - he helped his relative by laying out the reality of what making a decision to become that involved - would mean - to that person's life. That person made their own decision and chose to keep and live their own life. Having some one to really define the reality of what their life would be about - really helped that person - to make their own decision.
My acquaintance knew a lot about the church from his relative but he did not know about the reality of how the ministries used their positions to destroy relationships between their members - and to without conscience destroy the relationships' between ones own family members..
And when I talked with my aquaintenance - his relative had already made their decision to live and be in charge of their own life.
I spoke with him not because I was looking for legal advice, he happened to have looked into the matter for himself because of his own relative's growing involvement in the church. At that time in my life I was distraught and was looking for answers because even though I was no longer in the church - because I had relatives who were still in the church - I was facing another reality - because the ministry was still influencing the relationship my family had with me. if I said anything toward thinking for oneself or pointed out anything that was self evident of being not right - if I said anything about the church other than what they believed to be the truth - to any one in the church, including my own relatives - they would run to the ministry reporting what I had said - and then the ministry would influence my family or people who once had related to me, to further estrange them selves from me. Then in the later years they no longer had to report to the ministry to get counsel from them to know what to do - it had become imbedded in them.
I knew how they functioned in their communications with one another - I had been in the church since the mid 60's, Consistently thru the years -after I had left the church - every time I opened my mouth - privately with family or publically - my own family members withdrew from relating to me. Each time it added to the gap between us or a form of distance manifested itself on their part toward me by not being available for me to contact them and - this lasted for some period of time each time. How they related in this - was never up front, open and honest. In other words no discussion between us was allowed to take place about things pertaining to life. And after many years of trying to bridge the gap - I realized I was growing old.
And now, my relatives in the church are becoming connected in a measure in some ways to me but they are not aware of what is missing between us in being related as family members - because a damage has been done which destroyed the natural relationships that families have with one another in & as being family.
One other thought - In writing previously about not putting your trust or entrusting yourself to man - I was not saying we don't have friends, I myself have a few friends and some of these few friendships have lasted for near 50 years and no less than over 40 years.
In the mind set of things being self evident - glad to have had the opportunity to share this with you and any one who may have gained helpful insight from it. I received more of an understanding from it, not at the time I heard it - but later I received more of an awareness and a better understanding, that I should respect the rights of others to live the life they choose to live.
Now hopefully in writing more I won't touch their right and their freedom to live the kind of life they choose to live , not just these but any one's right to live their own lives.
The acquaintance I referenced in a previous communication I made ( the senior police officer) was never a member of the church but one of his close relatives had attended the church for over a year and when his relative was faced with having to make a decision whether they would submit their life to the shepherds or not - he helped his relative by laying out the reality of what making a decision to become that involved - would mean - to that person's life. That person made their own decision and chose to keep and live their own life. Having some one to really define the reality of what their life would be about - really helped that person - to make their own decision.
My acquaintance knew a lot about the church from his relative but he did not know about the reality of how the ministries used their positions to destroy relationships between their members - and to without conscience destroy the relationships' between ones own family members..
And when I talked with my aquaintenance - his relative had already made their decision to live and be in charge of their own life.
I spoke with him not because I was looking for legal advice, he happened to have looked into the matter for himself because of his own relative's growing involvement in the church. At that time in my life I was distraught and was looking for answers because even though I was no longer in the church - because I had relatives who were still in the church - I was facing another reality - because the ministry was still influencing the relationship my family had with me. if I said anything toward thinking for oneself or pointed out anything that was self evident of being not right - if I said anything about the church other than what they believed to be the truth - to any one in the church, including my own relatives - they would run to the ministry reporting what I had said - and then the ministry would influence my family or people who once had related to me, to further estrange them selves from me. Then in the later years they no longer had to report to the ministry to get counsel from them to know what to do - it had become imbedded in them.
I knew how they functioned in their communications with one another - I had been in the church since the mid 60's, Consistently thru the years -after I had left the church - every time I opened my mouth - privately with family or publically - my own family members withdrew from relating to me. Each time it added to the gap between us or a form of distance manifested itself on their part toward me by not being available for me to contact them and - this lasted for some period of time each time. How they related in this - was never up front, open and honest. In other words no discussion between us was allowed to take place about things pertaining to life. And after many years of trying to bridge the gap - I realized I was growing old.
And now, my relatives in the church are becoming connected in a measure in some ways to me but they are not aware of what is missing between us in being related as family members - because a damage has been done which destroyed the natural relationships that families have with one another in & as being family.
One other thought - In writing previously about not putting your trust or entrusting yourself to man - I was not saying we don't have friends, I myself have a few friends and some of these few friendships have lasted for near 50 years and no less than over 40 years.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
paleface
()
Date: August 16, 2013 05:57AM
Invisible -- it is very sad to hear about how your family has been impacted. I know of many families in the Living Word that have had similar experiences. Just this year, Bruce and Gilee Larson in San Diego have split up a family and forbid the kids from talking to their parents. This practise has been going on in LA for years. This causes extensive emotional damage.
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