Larry, with all due respect to you, this forum is titled Rick Ross Cult Education forum. I think it is beneficial for people to be free to talk and ask questions and learn about John. All of him. The Living Word has been identified as a cult and John, then, was a cult leader. Yes, God probably used him. But from the tone of your posts, you sound like you are rebuking some of us who are asking questions about him. Maybe some folks need to learn more about who John was in order to take him off a pedestal. Maybe some folks need to see how human and prone to error he could be. This should be a free forum and people should be free to "vomit" if they need to without feeling guilty for doing it. Didn't we have enough of that repression and fear of speaking up when were all in the fellowship? Not everyone's in the same place as you with regard to the healing process. Some of us are still in the "discovery" phase. I hope you are not *really* telling people they shouldn't vomit here. Peace. : )

I think a big "red light" moment for me happened in the Anaheim church. JRS was talking and Happy Clark stood up and said "Brother Stevens, you're the Christ". John just chuckled and said something general like "Bless you, Happy".

I've often wondered why John didn't correct Happy for saying that. I've come to beleive that JRS actually believed that he was Jesus reincarnated.

LARRY BOBO, your post 2 very much has helped me understand some things. I was one of those "drunken shepherds" as I said in some previous posts. I think it is true that John's love of God did spill over to us. The one part of Latter Rain theology I think that is not correct, the little part of arsenic in the stew is the part where it is believed that a minister can change the nature of someone else by impartation. I think that is the one thing that John believed that made him make mistakes in setting in office young men that didn't even know Christ, oh they had a great fondness of JRS, they had "John's spirit," the natural side of him is the part they, and me, emulated. I missed the real John Robert Stevens, the part that loved God and had a heart for the people, I believe that. I am one that knows for sure that he changed in focus when Marilyn snagged him completely.

There is really two different WALK's that we are talking about here. Pre-Marilyn was a totally different church. I am not even sure that any of the old crew is there any more. I have heard about so many that have left over the years. I wish there had been a split when John Stevens died and we had of stayed together. But it didn't happen that way. Perhaps we have all needed this thirty some odd gap to re-group.

I think there has always been apostles and prophets in the body of Christ, I don't think that ever went away. I believe John Stevens was an apostle. Apostles are not infallible any more than anybody else. Just as Paul told Peter to his face that he was wrong about some things, that doesn't mean that Peter was a total anti-Christ, (although Jesus did all him Satan once). I really wasn't asking about the sins of JRS to get dirt on him, I just wanted to understand more about him.

Look back at the start of this latest surge of posts here and you will notice there was a three year gap, from 2010 to when it started back up. I was about the third one that started back posting on this forum. It's like all of us have been somewhere and now we are back for more therapy.

Anyway, I don't know why we are all looking at this stuff again, but I think it is because for all of us, God wants to wake us back up a little more.

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paleface
I think a big "red light" moment for me happened in the Anaheim church. JRS was talking and Happy Clark stood up and said "Brother Stevens, you're the Christ". John just chuckled and said something general like "Bless you, Happy".

I've often wondered why John didn't correct Happy for saying that. I've come to beleive that JRS actually believed that he was Jesus reincarnated.

About Happy Clark,

I heard some time ago that Happy Clark died .Happy Clark was an unseemly, uncomely member, one might say a less honorable member in some ways but to me , he was also Jolly and almost entertaining at times. He did carry in his personality a great joy. Happy Clark was out there.

I think most would agree that John knew how to relate to just about every one that came near to relate to him.

1st Corinthians 12:23-25
And those members we deem much less honorable, on these we bestow more abundant honor and our less presentable members become much more presentable, where as our more presentable members have no need of it. But God has so composed the body, giving more honor to that member which lacked, so that there may be no division in the body, so that the members may have the same care for one another.

I do not believe Happy would have been able to experience being corrected publically, and maybe not privately, it may have destroyed him. Every one could participate and be themselves, even if they were extremely immature or if they had things about them that were offensive as an undesirable trait , for the most part. . The over all atmosphere and behavior was that every one was accepted just as they were, back in those days..

Good point. Perhaps John corrected Happy in private. Happy was a bundle of joy. I loved him.

MILLER IS TOAST...THEY LIED ABOUT HIM AND GOT RID OF HIM...

thisweek:

There is no need to put everything in caps.

Please dial it down a bit.

paleface,
To quote what I said - "I realize vomiting may be part of the healing process and perhaps identifying falsehoods is helpful in coming to a better understanding of the truth, but it's not something you want to make a lifestyle of."

Vomiting may be necessary at the beginning of the healing process - it's just not how you want to live everyday life after you get over being sick. Many have spent 20-30 years vomiting and have still not benefited. The thing I loved about jhorning's post is the recognition that focusing on debauchery of the prodigal son doesn't heal anyone - it was the awareness of the love and forgiveness of the father that brought healing. After spending many years myself trying to pick the corn out of the manure and getting no where - discovering it's not even the point, I feel a sense of responsibility to at least share with those on a similar journey. The real point of my post is that John is not the issue - God is. Knowing what was wrong with John will not make you right with God - they are two separate issues.

I think because I posted so much on Factnet, I received hundreds of emails from many who were close to John and had special insights. Many were the same stories from different angles - even from some former apostles. Honestly though, because I was not personally there, it's still just gossip and hasn't benefited except to get me looking to God instead of TLWF for answers. You should feel totally free to dig through the pile - many have done that - and also feel totally free to express any feelings you may have about it - many have done that as well. In the end I think you will find that your own personal walk with God (which is where the Walk started and attracted so many) is where the real answers lie. My encouragement is to feel free to vomit - but don't stay there too long.

Paleface wrote:

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In a similar way, Gary and Marilyn have an inner group that does their dirty work for them. This is sometimes called "Marilyn's Army of Women", (but at times includes men as well). At one time, it was called "The Purples". This inner group are the ones that will do anything for Marilyn. Anything. Maybe its because of religious zeal, or maybe a fear of rejection that motivates their behaviour.

The most dangerous part of a group is becoming a member of the inner circle.

The author of this essay was a member of the inner circle that served and needs and whims of a guru. Though this was a non Christian group, what is described here may echo what others have seen in The Walk.

[webcache.googleusercontent.com]

This is a small quotation from the much longer essay, but gives a flavor of it

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The guardians of the inner circle were thus the only ones who knew the full picture of what was going on. This gave them an incredible feeling of power and responsibility. Lying to both sides of the community was taken to be a kind of sacred puja of service to God. Of course, the people became very twisted up and perverted inside by this life of lying, but they generally took pride in being able to "handle it".

Most devotees couldn't handle it. I've had many conversations with inner circle people about this issue of lying, and it's kind of fascinating to hear people rationalize it. You would literally think that it was some kind of spiritual path to enlightenment to hear them describe it. To them it was almost the epitome of devotion to their Guru, because of the sacrifice it required on their part. To them, telling the truth would have been the easy way out, and they even looked down on me when I advocated telling the truth, as if I were just not advanced enough to understand the subtleties of the art of devotional lying.

and a description of dynamics inside the LDS (Mormons)

[www.i4m.com]

(small excerpt)

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Once they reach the highest levels of the cult pyramid, members are privy to their leaders' darkest actions. Members must also come to terms with the abusive behavior of their leaders.

"Mormon missionaries also experience this cult phenomena first hand. True Believing Missionaries in the field think their assignments are inspired and the Mission President is a prophet.

"Those who end up working in the office learn the President has a dark side that is petty, arbitrary and cruel. Yet those exposed to this still propagate the myth that the President is divinely-inspired leader. This is also common in ward and stake leadership.

20. The Cult Leaders Are Perfection

"The final stage of cult indoctrination is to accept the leaders as the perfect center of the universe, from which all else derives. The "fully evolved" cult member thus understands all the pain and suffering as resistance to the cult leaders' divinity. The leader is the single point of entry for God and perfection in the otherwise imperfect universe.

....Thwarting one's natural tendency toward self-preservation becomes a pleasurable, almost fetishistic obsession. "

to corboy

the inner circle is called apco now...