Psychosis after a Tony Robbins Seminar??
Posted by:
Cosmophilospher
()
Date: August 06, 2004 04:18PM
Robbins Pays More Than $220,000 To Settle Alleged Franchise Rule Violations
[www.ftc.gov]
FOR RELEASE: MAY 16, 1995
ANTHONY ROBBINS AGREES TO PAY MORE THAN $220,000
IN CONSUMER REDRESS TO SETTLE ALLEGED FRANCHISE RULE VIOLATIONS
Motivational speaker Anthony J. Robbins and his company,
Robbins Research International, Inc., have agreed to settle
Federal Trade Commission charges that they misrepresented the
potential earnings of those who bought their franchises for
motivational seminars. According to the FTC, prospective
franchisees paid Robbins Research International (RRI) fees
ranging from $5,000 to as much as $90,000 for the rights to
conduct -- and charge admission for -- seminars featuring
videotapes of Robbins presenting his motivational techniques.
To resolve the FTC allegations, RRI and Robbins have agreed to
pay $221,260 in redress to franchisees, and to buy back seminar
kits that franchisees purchased in addition to those initially
supplied under the franchise arrangement. RRI and Robbins also
would be prohibited from violating the FTC's Franchise Rule in
the future.
The FTC's Franchise Rule requires a franchisor to provide
prospective franchisees with a complete and accurate basic
disclosure document containing 20 categories of information,
including the history of the franchisor, its managers, litigation
history, and information about other franchisees. If a
franchisor chooses to make earnings claims, the rule requires it
to have a reasonable basis for those claims and to provide a
document to prospective franchisees to substantiate them.
The FTC's complaint detailing the charges in this case
states that defendants Robbins and RRI advertised, promoted and
sold franchises to consumers across the United States. The
franchises were to conduct seminars featuring Robbins' "Unlimited
Power" and "Power to Influence" motivational video tapes. The
defendants also furnished new franchisees with a certain number
of seminar kits that contained audio tapes and printed materials
for the seminars.
The complaint alleges that the defendants failed to provide
prospective franchisees with the basic disclosure document as
required by the rule. In addition, the complaint alleges the
defendants represented that the franchisees could sell 25 to 100
seminars per month and could earn between $75,000 to $300,000 per
year. In fact, according to the complaint, few if any
franchisees have been able to sell that many seminars or make
these earnings. The defendants also allegedly failed to provide
the earnings claims substantiation document required by the rule.
The proposed consent decree to settle these charges, which
requires court approval, would prohibit the defendants from
violating the Franchise Rule in the future. Further, the
defendants have agreed to pay $221,260 into an escrow account to
provide redress to franchisees who have not previously settled
with the defendants. In addition, the defendants would
repurchase for $175 each -- up to a maximum of $49,875 -- any
unused kits franchisees purchased from the defendants above and
beyond those initially provided.
The FTC filed the complaint and proposed consent decree in
the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of California,
in San Diego yesterday. The Commission vote to file the
complaint and consent decree was 5-0. The FTC's Atlanta Regional
Office handled the investigation.
NOTE: A consent decree is for settlement purposes only and does
not constitute admission of a law violation. A consent decree
has the force of law when signed by the judge.
The FTC has available a brochure, A Consumers Guide to
Buying a Franchise, to help consumers who are considering the
purchase of a franchise.
Copies of the complaint and proposed consent decree, and the
consumer brochure, are available from the FTC's Public Reference
Branch, Room 130, 6th Street and Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.,
Washington, D.C. 20580.
(Civil Action No. 95-CV-627-H (AJB))
(FTC File No. 922 3054)
[www.ftc.gov]
FOR RELEASE: MAY 16, 1995
ANTHONY ROBBINS AGREES TO PAY MORE THAN $220,000
IN CONSUMER REDRESS TO SETTLE ALLEGED FRANCHISE RULE VIOLATIONS
Motivational speaker Anthony J. Robbins and his company,
Robbins Research International, Inc., have agreed to settle
Federal Trade Commission charges that they misrepresented the
potential earnings of those who bought their franchises for
motivational seminars. According to the FTC, prospective
franchisees paid Robbins Research International (RRI) fees
ranging from $5,000 to as much as $90,000 for the rights to
conduct -- and charge admission for -- seminars featuring
videotapes of Robbins presenting his motivational techniques.
To resolve the FTC allegations, RRI and Robbins have agreed to
pay $221,260 in redress to franchisees, and to buy back seminar
kits that franchisees purchased in addition to those initially
supplied under the franchise arrangement. RRI and Robbins also
would be prohibited from violating the FTC's Franchise Rule in
the future.
The FTC's Franchise Rule requires a franchisor to provide
prospective franchisees with a complete and accurate basic
disclosure document containing 20 categories of information,
including the history of the franchisor, its managers, litigation
history, and information about other franchisees. If a
franchisor chooses to make earnings claims, the rule requires it
to have a reasonable basis for those claims and to provide a
document to prospective franchisees to substantiate them.
The FTC's complaint detailing the charges in this case
states that defendants Robbins and RRI advertised, promoted and
sold franchises to consumers across the United States. The
franchises were to conduct seminars featuring Robbins' "Unlimited
Power" and "Power to Influence" motivational video tapes. The
defendants also furnished new franchisees with a certain number
of seminar kits that contained audio tapes and printed materials
for the seminars.
The complaint alleges that the defendants failed to provide
prospective franchisees with the basic disclosure document as
required by the rule. In addition, the complaint alleges the
defendants represented that the franchisees could sell 25 to 100
seminars per month and could earn between $75,000 to $300,000 per
year. In fact, according to the complaint, few if any
franchisees have been able to sell that many seminars or make
these earnings. The defendants also allegedly failed to provide
the earnings claims substantiation document required by the rule.
The proposed consent decree to settle these charges, which
requires court approval, would prohibit the defendants from
violating the Franchise Rule in the future. Further, the
defendants have agreed to pay $221,260 into an escrow account to
provide redress to franchisees who have not previously settled
with the defendants. In addition, the defendants would
repurchase for $175 each -- up to a maximum of $49,875 -- any
unused kits franchisees purchased from the defendants above and
beyond those initially provided.
The FTC filed the complaint and proposed consent decree in
the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of California,
in San Diego yesterday. The Commission vote to file the
complaint and consent decree was 5-0. The FTC's Atlanta Regional
Office handled the investigation.
NOTE: A consent decree is for settlement purposes only and does
not constitute admission of a law violation. A consent decree
has the force of law when signed by the judge.
The FTC has available a brochure, A Consumers Guide to
Buying a Franchise, to help consumers who are considering the
purchase of a franchise.
Copies of the complaint and proposed consent decree, and the
consumer brochure, are available from the FTC's Public Reference
Branch, Room 130, 6th Street and Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.,
Washington, D.C. 20580.
(Civil Action No. 95-CV-627-H (AJB))
(FTC File No. 922 3054)
Psychosis after a Tony Robbins Seminar??
Posted by:
Cosmophilospher
()
Date: August 06, 2004 04:30PM
[www.advweb.com]
(excerpts)
Here is Tony's plan for you:
Buy a CD set -> attend a seminar -> buy products and invest in his schemes -> attend a seminar
This cycle repeats until you're broke. Tony is a con man, getting rich with his scheme...
...But during the seminars he promotes and sells products that do not work. An example the QLink, a pendant you wear to protect you from harmful waves like those from a cell phone. Yes he actually devoted time from one of his $1,000 seminars to promote this! He tries to sell investment opportunities such as his DreamLife.com (which is now bankrupt and out of business). And he tries to sell more seminars, with extremely high pressure and false 72 hours cancelation policies. Sometimes he says he doesn't have time to finish the material and that the attendees must come to the next seminar for the rest. Sometimes he puts a lot of high pressure on the attendees to pay for the next seminar at a special discount ($10,000 after the discount!). He says they have several days to cancel but the fine print says they can't cancel. He says they have a money back guarantee but getting them to refund the money is nearly impossible. He says he'll be at the seminars but often they're taught by his instructors and he's only there on video...
(cont'd)
[www.advweb.com]
(excerpts)
Here is Tony's plan for you:
Buy a CD set -> attend a seminar -> buy products and invest in his schemes -> attend a seminar
This cycle repeats until you're broke. Tony is a con man, getting rich with his scheme...
...But during the seminars he promotes and sells products that do not work. An example the QLink, a pendant you wear to protect you from harmful waves like those from a cell phone. Yes he actually devoted time from one of his $1,000 seminars to promote this! He tries to sell investment opportunities such as his DreamLife.com (which is now bankrupt and out of business). And he tries to sell more seminars, with extremely high pressure and false 72 hours cancelation policies. Sometimes he says he doesn't have time to finish the material and that the attendees must come to the next seminar for the rest. Sometimes he puts a lot of high pressure on the attendees to pay for the next seminar at a special discount ($10,000 after the discount!). He says they have several days to cancel but the fine print says they can't cancel. He says they have a money back guarantee but getting them to refund the money is nearly impossible. He says he'll be at the seminars but often they're taught by his instructors and he's only there on video...
(cont'd)
[www.advweb.com]
Psychosis after a Tony Robbins Seminar??
Posted by:
Beyond & Deeper
()
Date: August 06, 2004 07:29PM
Hi to all,
Someone put a link in the AR's Forum and there I am!
I am the individual who is very angry at the whole manipulation called Master Coaching (see Coz' quotes above... thanks Coz!)
Nobody can befool me without paying the price for it and they are going to hear me till I get what I want. Actually if they are master coaches, I'm God himself (or herself, sorry). I haven't lost my sense of humour but I hate lies and manipulations that use good will, love, and honnesty as a facade and as a mean to get to their end. It is utterly destructive and if they continue in this way, they will be doomed.
Now let's be honnest. There are some good things in it but as always, the good is being used to get bigger and richer and then gets mixed with the not so good. The result is a bit like a woman or a man who accepts anything blindly and stupidly from his/her partner just because he or her gets a kiss once in a while. You can loose your money and much more if you don't open the eyes and see the facts.
I'm still waiting for the name of the Head of the Coaching Division. Their lawyer, Stephanie Holland told me they should contact me but I haven't heard anything yet nor did not get the name of the person I wanted to write to.
My aim is not to be negative about the whole thing but to bring back some integrity and honnesty into the process by explaining in those line what people should be aware of. Hope this helps and will be glad to tell you about the futur unfoldments.
Beyond & Deeper
Switzerland
Someone put a link in the AR's Forum and there I am!
I am the individual who is very angry at the whole manipulation called Master Coaching (see Coz' quotes above... thanks Coz!)
Nobody can befool me without paying the price for it and they are going to hear me till I get what I want. Actually if they are master coaches, I'm God himself (or herself, sorry). I haven't lost my sense of humour but I hate lies and manipulations that use good will, love, and honnesty as a facade and as a mean to get to their end. It is utterly destructive and if they continue in this way, they will be doomed.
Now let's be honnest. There are some good things in it but as always, the good is being used to get bigger and richer and then gets mixed with the not so good. The result is a bit like a woman or a man who accepts anything blindly and stupidly from his/her partner just because he or her gets a kiss once in a while. You can loose your money and much more if you don't open the eyes and see the facts.
I'm still waiting for the name of the Head of the Coaching Division. Their lawyer, Stephanie Holland told me they should contact me but I haven't heard anything yet nor did not get the name of the person I wanted to write to.
My aim is not to be negative about the whole thing but to bring back some integrity and honnesty into the process by explaining in those line what people should be aware of. Hope this helps and will be glad to tell you about the futur unfoldments.
Beyond & Deeper
Switzerland
Psychosis after a Tony Robbins Seminar??
Posted by:
MantaRayz
()
Date: August 07, 2004 08:49PM
Beyond & Deeper
I believe someone sent you that name about 10 days ago! Did you not get it?
Be Well!
I believe someone sent you that name about 10 days ago! Did you not get it?
Be Well!
Psychosis after a Tony Robbins Seminar??
Posted by:
MantaRayz
()
Date: August 07, 2004 08:51PM
Coz .....
Yer in rare form here Buddy!
Yer in rare form here Buddy!
Psychosis after a Tony Robbins Seminar??
Posted by:
Beyond & Deeper
()
Date: August 08, 2004 01:45AM
NO,
I did not get any name yet.
Stephanie Holland, their lawyer said in a mail.
"I have forwarded the info to that person and they should be getting in touch with you soon" She is talking about he Head of the Coaching Division I believe.
Beyond & Deeper
I did not get any name yet.
Stephanie Holland, their lawyer said in a mail.
"I have forwarded the info to that person and they should be getting in touch with you soon" She is talking about he Head of the Coaching Division I believe.
Beyond & Deeper
Psychosis after a Tony Robbins Seminar??
Posted by:
Cosmophilospher
()
Date: August 08, 2004 02:34AM
[/quote]
Many many people thought Coz should NOT be banned and censored on that forum.
[www.tonyrobbins.com]
Coz was told by the alleged "moderator" that every post he would be making would have to be "approved" by the so-called "new moderators" on that board.
So they would be censoring his viewpoint to suit their purposes.
Now, "moderation" is ok if the moderator is objective, and applies the same rules to everyone.
But SOME of these same new moderators are using multiple identities, and some of them could very well be commissioned salespeople, who are picking off people on that board, and talking them into going to Robbins seminars, for a piece of the action. $$$$
Also, some of these "moderators" are in my view some of the worst/best spinners of the "truth" of some of the most egregious and notorious problems Robbins has had in his Career.
Students of Robbins were discussing/exploring Robbins techniques of Unconscious Influence on his own people, his advanced high-pressure Sales methods, the potentially damaging effects of some of the psychological techniques, his "weird" health claims, and other things of this nature.
People also had some tough questions about his "stories" about "buying his castle" and what were the exact circumstances in that case, to factual issues surrounding his divorce, to "healing a lady with multiple personalities in a few minutes". Issues of that nature, where there seemed to me to be many factual contradictions.
Some people on his forum came to some pretty harsh conclusions as to the "truths" behind some of these "stories". (many key posts have been deleted from these threads)
Does Tony bullshi*t us?
[www.tonyrobbins.com]
[www.tonyrobbins.com]
But its when things get into the nature of his Sales methods, that they get shut down, as that is when things get $ERIOUS.
If people are aware of Robbins Sales Techniques, it screws up the Sales Process, and that could cost those salesmen some serious money. I am talking THOUSANDS of dollars here.
What is the reason that they now censor negative info about Robbins on that forum? Before, almost every week someone would come in there posting about some problem, going into Mania, bad salespeople, or whatever. Now you never see that stuff anymore. B&D started out positive, but after he felt ripped-off from the Coaching con-tract, they DELETED his critical posts!!
That forum now seems to be an extension of total system of "Thought Reform". Its run by Thought Police.
Also, way back then, they deleted hundreds of VALUABLE analytical posts of Robbins when they brought in these "new moderators", some of who could be commissioned salespeople, selling Robbins seminars for profit. I have seen moderators say, "I'll PM you with the details" when someone asks about a seminar.
People with integrity will never submit to being "moderated" by Salesmen and Apologists in LGAT Seminarland.
If these same people wanted to actually have a fair, uncensored discussion of what Robbins is ACTUALLY doing, i would be up to that.
BRING IT ON!!!
Why?
Because i learned all this stuff from Robbins himself! I am telling the truth, and this is why it MUST be suppressed. The Truth can cost those folks some Sales, i guess. Whatever happened to Integrity?
Robbins ideology and story seems to be built on spin, reality distortion and "stories". Robbins has constructed an entire imaginal universe, a Tonyverse Dreamland, where he is the Magician working his Mass-Hypnotic Persuasion on thousands of people.
He has literally created an entire Mythology in the minds of his followers, and he seems to be using every Unconscous Perusasion technique not in the book.
There are very powerful hypnotic tools from people like Milton Erickson, and people have turned them into sales techniques to get rich.
I believe Milton Erickson would be DISGUSTED by the way salespeople have abused his knowledge.
Those tools should be used CAREFULLY and ethically.
They shouldn't be used to get people to sign a tricky contracts for expensive Seminars, and countless other money-making scemes/scams as well.
Bottom line, open discourse and Free Thought must be suppressed on the Robbins forum, as Tony's entire house of cards could come crumbling down in people minds, and sales could be lost. Some people can't handle the truth, whereas some want to hide it for their own advantage.
That is my opinion.
An article about Robbins many years ago called him the "Confidence Man". That somes it all up...
hmmm...that's a good title...
The Confidence Man...
Here are some posts on the Robbins forum. They are still there...for now...there is lots of good info in these threads...
[www.tonyrobbins.com]
Quote
Mozart
Just wondering actually...if Coz himself has been banned from the AR forum or chose to leave of his own accord???? I'm a member over there and was wondering about that. Thanks
Many many people thought Coz should NOT be banned and censored on that forum.
[www.tonyrobbins.com]
Coz was told by the alleged "moderator" that every post he would be making would have to be "approved" by the so-called "new moderators" on that board.
So they would be censoring his viewpoint to suit their purposes.
Now, "moderation" is ok if the moderator is objective, and applies the same rules to everyone.
But SOME of these same new moderators are using multiple identities, and some of them could very well be commissioned salespeople, who are picking off people on that board, and talking them into going to Robbins seminars, for a piece of the action. $$$$
Also, some of these "moderators" are in my view some of the worst/best spinners of the "truth" of some of the most egregious and notorious problems Robbins has had in his Career.
Students of Robbins were discussing/exploring Robbins techniques of Unconscious Influence on his own people, his advanced high-pressure Sales methods, the potentially damaging effects of some of the psychological techniques, his "weird" health claims, and other things of this nature.
People also had some tough questions about his "stories" about "buying his castle" and what were the exact circumstances in that case, to factual issues surrounding his divorce, to "healing a lady with multiple personalities in a few minutes". Issues of that nature, where there seemed to me to be many factual contradictions.
Some people on his forum came to some pretty harsh conclusions as to the "truths" behind some of these "stories". (many key posts have been deleted from these threads)
Does Tony bullshi*t us?
[www.tonyrobbins.com]
[www.tonyrobbins.com]
But its when things get into the nature of his Sales methods, that they get shut down, as that is when things get $ERIOUS.
If people are aware of Robbins Sales Techniques, it screws up the Sales Process, and that could cost those salesmen some serious money. I am talking THOUSANDS of dollars here.
What is the reason that they now censor negative info about Robbins on that forum? Before, almost every week someone would come in there posting about some problem, going into Mania, bad salespeople, or whatever. Now you never see that stuff anymore. B&D started out positive, but after he felt ripped-off from the Coaching con-tract, they DELETED his critical posts!!
That forum now seems to be an extension of total system of "Thought Reform". Its run by Thought Police.
Also, way back then, they deleted hundreds of VALUABLE analytical posts of Robbins when they brought in these "new moderators", some of who could be commissioned salespeople, selling Robbins seminars for profit. I have seen moderators say, "I'll PM you with the details" when someone asks about a seminar.
People with integrity will never submit to being "moderated" by Salesmen and Apologists in LGAT Seminarland.
If these same people wanted to actually have a fair, uncensored discussion of what Robbins is ACTUALLY doing, i would be up to that.
BRING IT ON!!!
Why?
Because i learned all this stuff from Robbins himself! I am telling the truth, and this is why it MUST be suppressed. The Truth can cost those folks some Sales, i guess. Whatever happened to Integrity?
Robbins ideology and story seems to be built on spin, reality distortion and "stories". Robbins has constructed an entire imaginal universe, a Tonyverse Dreamland, where he is the Magician working his Mass-Hypnotic Persuasion on thousands of people.
He has literally created an entire Mythology in the minds of his followers, and he seems to be using every Unconscous Perusasion technique not in the book.
There are very powerful hypnotic tools from people like Milton Erickson, and people have turned them into sales techniques to get rich.
I believe Milton Erickson would be DISGUSTED by the way salespeople have abused his knowledge.
Those tools should be used CAREFULLY and ethically.
They shouldn't be used to get people to sign a tricky contracts for expensive Seminars, and countless other money-making scemes/scams as well.
Bottom line, open discourse and Free Thought must be suppressed on the Robbins forum, as Tony's entire house of cards could come crumbling down in people minds, and sales could be lost. Some people can't handle the truth, whereas some want to hide it for their own advantage.
That is my opinion.
An article about Robbins many years ago called him the "Confidence Man". That somes it all up...
hmmm...that's a good title...
The Confidence Man...
Here are some posts on the Robbins forum. They are still there...for now...there is lots of good info in these threads...
[www.tonyrobbins.com]
Psychosis after a Tony Robbins Seminar??
Posted by:
Cosmophilospher
()
Date: August 08, 2004 04:05AM
I don't think "MantaRayz" has paid much attention to what our friend has been saying all along. He has been TRYING to get these people from Robbins Coaching company to listen to him, and all they seem to have done is either ignore or try to "sell" him, and blame him.
Coz
Coz
Quote
MantaRayz
I believe someone sent you that name about 10 days ago! Did you not get it?Quote
Psychosis after a Tony Robbins Seminar??
Posted by:
Mozart
()
Date: August 08, 2004 10:02AM
Okay Coz-I'll accept that you have studied Tony in depth and have gone to lots of his seminars...you seem quite aware about his techniques and so on.
But with regards to his castle and divorce? How do you personally know what is and isn't true? What are your sources for this information? Your argument is as baseless as those who defend Tony unless either side can provide conclusive proof. If you tell me that you have heard stuff from someone who works directly for him-I'll take your word for it but with a pinch of salt also! No offence intended my friend but with someone so high profile rumors will always fly, good and bad, no matter how honorable (or dishonorable) the person in question.
Also-I believe a middle ground must be found here. People who are total utter Tony fanatics will turn me off instantly but what about people who are totally suspicious of personal development in general also? Okay Coz I know that that is a fairly general statement and I'll retract same once I know your views on personal development themselves. But any posts of yours I've read seem to be so full of searching for ulterior motives and underhand techniques. I'm quite curious as to whether you actually set goals, go for them and enjoy them for crying out loud!!! On this site I saw a profile on Deepak Chopra and there was a link to how he may or may not have procured sex with a hooker and so on. Why put that here? I could have read that in any tabloid magazine if I wanted and if he did and it's true then people will decide on the worth of his work based on that or whether they still want to source inspiration and ideas from someone who did this. It does reek of character assassination and reaching for something to hang him with.
I read somewhere else Coz that you said about how you mentioned Tony uses techniques to enhance a persons mental faculties that you found destructive, like calling problems 'challenges'. That is not unique to Tony. Olympic and professional athletes from all sports have been aware of such matters for years now, like how interpreting their 'failures' as stepping stones to success is much better than saying the actual phrase 'I failed.' Or saying they have a challenge to work on rather than a problem? Like it or not people WILL react better to 'challenges' than problems.
Also, with regard to his live seminars. I attended UPW in 2003. After the sunday part of the event I too was approached by sales people trying to get me to sign up to Mastery University. They tried the usual stuff that you have mentioned, like asking what is important to me and trying to link that to MU. So what?! You really have to nuts to hand over ten grand that YOU DO NOT HAVE just because someone says it can solve all your problems. That is just naive in the extreme and it's illogical to lay all the blame at the feet of the salespeople who are doing the job they're paid for and probably have family to feed and houses/cars to pay for. Having said that, I have yet to meet a salesperson I felt comfortable with :wink:
But people have to take responsibility for their decisions. I won't apologise for saying that anyone who goes to Tony's event and pays for MU on a credit card or a check and do not have the finances to pay for it is an idiot. Sure people will try and sell you Wealth Mastery as the solution to THAT problem (or challenge!) but people need to decide before they go to such an event how much money they're willing to sell at it. Coz, I attended, enjoyed myself, made some great friends but just because someone made MU sound very attractive doesn't mean I wanted to go. I do not have the finances for such a thing and can think of many other, far better places to invest such an amount of money. Also I believe that there is no substitute for hard work and clear, identified goals for a persons life.
I have goals...some very small daily goals, some bigger medium term ones and some huge life ones. And if I don't achieve them? So what!! I have already decided that I'm going to be happy. Life can be hard enough as it is why make it harder than making problems more than they are? You can't take your problems or successes with you when you leave this earth-life is to be enjoyed and lived to the full and I don't see my goals as the be all and end all of everything. Rather, the journey is what is important. Who I become along the way, what I contribute, how many people I help and am kind to and hopefully leave the place in better condition than when I found it.
Sorry for waffling! To sum up, too much focus on one extreme totally negates the benefits of either side. I like this forum and website because it highlights the dangers of a lot of movements out there....contd on part two.
But with regards to his castle and divorce? How do you personally know what is and isn't true? What are your sources for this information? Your argument is as baseless as those who defend Tony unless either side can provide conclusive proof. If you tell me that you have heard stuff from someone who works directly for him-I'll take your word for it but with a pinch of salt also! No offence intended my friend but with someone so high profile rumors will always fly, good and bad, no matter how honorable (or dishonorable) the person in question.
Also-I believe a middle ground must be found here. People who are total utter Tony fanatics will turn me off instantly but what about people who are totally suspicious of personal development in general also? Okay Coz I know that that is a fairly general statement and I'll retract same once I know your views on personal development themselves. But any posts of yours I've read seem to be so full of searching for ulterior motives and underhand techniques. I'm quite curious as to whether you actually set goals, go for them and enjoy them for crying out loud!!! On this site I saw a profile on Deepak Chopra and there was a link to how he may or may not have procured sex with a hooker and so on. Why put that here? I could have read that in any tabloid magazine if I wanted and if he did and it's true then people will decide on the worth of his work based on that or whether they still want to source inspiration and ideas from someone who did this. It does reek of character assassination and reaching for something to hang him with.
I read somewhere else Coz that you said about how you mentioned Tony uses techniques to enhance a persons mental faculties that you found destructive, like calling problems 'challenges'. That is not unique to Tony. Olympic and professional athletes from all sports have been aware of such matters for years now, like how interpreting their 'failures' as stepping stones to success is much better than saying the actual phrase 'I failed.' Or saying they have a challenge to work on rather than a problem? Like it or not people WILL react better to 'challenges' than problems.
Also, with regard to his live seminars. I attended UPW in 2003. After the sunday part of the event I too was approached by sales people trying to get me to sign up to Mastery University. They tried the usual stuff that you have mentioned, like asking what is important to me and trying to link that to MU. So what?! You really have to nuts to hand over ten grand that YOU DO NOT HAVE just because someone says it can solve all your problems. That is just naive in the extreme and it's illogical to lay all the blame at the feet of the salespeople who are doing the job they're paid for and probably have family to feed and houses/cars to pay for. Having said that, I have yet to meet a salesperson I felt comfortable with :wink:
But people have to take responsibility for their decisions. I won't apologise for saying that anyone who goes to Tony's event and pays for MU on a credit card or a check and do not have the finances to pay for it is an idiot. Sure people will try and sell you Wealth Mastery as the solution to THAT problem (or challenge!) but people need to decide before they go to such an event how much money they're willing to sell at it. Coz, I attended, enjoyed myself, made some great friends but just because someone made MU sound very attractive doesn't mean I wanted to go. I do not have the finances for such a thing and can think of many other, far better places to invest such an amount of money. Also I believe that there is no substitute for hard work and clear, identified goals for a persons life.
I have goals...some very small daily goals, some bigger medium term ones and some huge life ones. And if I don't achieve them? So what!! I have already decided that I'm going to be happy. Life can be hard enough as it is why make it harder than making problems more than they are? You can't take your problems or successes with you when you leave this earth-life is to be enjoyed and lived to the full and I don't see my goals as the be all and end all of everything. Rather, the journey is what is important. Who I become along the way, what I contribute, how many people I help and am kind to and hopefully leave the place in better condition than when I found it.
Sorry for waffling! To sum up, too much focus on one extreme totally negates the benefits of either side. I like this forum and website because it highlights the dangers of a lot of movements out there....contd on part two.
Psychosis after a Tony Robbins Seminar??
Posted by:
Cosmophilospher
()
Date: August 08, 2004 12:26PM
Mozart, you make some interesting points.
But unfortunately, they just don't stick. But of course you are entitled to your opinion, and I hope things work out for you.
But here's the reality.
Tony has been questioned about his "stories" time and time again. My point about his "stories" is to WAKE PEOPLE UP. They look at him as some sort of Miracle Man. He is not. He is not only a man, and he is a fallible, flawed person, just like the rest of us.
Ok, what about all of his "stories" in his tape sets? Did you listen to what he admitted recently in "The Power To Shape Your Destiny" about them? If you believe his "stories" without any solid proof to back them up, I feel very sorry for you. Talk and "stories" are cheap. I need to see the hard evidence of these claims.
My point is to point out the Dark Side of all this. I have nothing against "self-improvement" or even Self-Actualization. What I don't like is when this impulse in people is exploited by these Self-help Gurus.
Personally, I am doing much better in life, AFTER I have moved beyond Robbins. Some of those psychological tools CREATE psychological dysfunction in people.
I have explained how using MUSTS to create stress in people is step 2 of the sales process, for instance. (create MORE PAIN in the customer, so you can heal them with your services).
As far as Tony Newspeak, what I am speaking about is much different. He has created a "private language" by redefining words. This creates "Groupthink" in his followers. Its a technique of "Mind Control" to create a comprehensive vocabulary to only be used by the "in group". Control their words, and you can control their thoughts and minds and behaviors.
Unfortunately, your last part of your post below, is way off the mark. Do you notice that you are focused on "you"?
I am talking about VULNERABLE PEOPLE.
These people are not "idiots".
I saw many of them just getting HOSED by the supersalespeople. Average folks, who actually believe things other people tell them. They are not "idiots", they are vulnerable people who are being RUTHLESSLY exploited by some of the most talented manipulators on this planet.
I see Robbins using HUNDREDS OF THE MOST POWERFUL TOOLS OF SOCIAL INFLUENCE IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD on people, and he is a Master at it. In my view, he literally "hypnotizes" them as he is claiming he is de-hypnotizing them.
Certain people are VERY "suggestible". These are the people who can totally get taken for a ride to bankruptcy. (get the money to come ANY WAY YOU CAN.)
I knew a simple, honest decent guy, who believed whatever his Guru would tell them, and LOST EVERYTHING to the Guru, and the Guru did not give a sh*t. The Guru showed CONTEMPT towards him. He lost his house...EVERYTHING to the Guru. The poor guy was in a Trance for about 3 years, and then he woke up, and it was too late. This happens all the time.
This is not about "you" or "your experience".
Sharks and Wolves LOVE Gurus like this as they teach them how to do it to other people!!
I am talking about the very real harm being caused to many people who do NOT know what is going on.
It is a sociopathic attitude to say, "well, some people are suckers, and they deserve what they get".
That is the attitude of the advanced super-salespeople.
BLAME THE VICTIM.
Every sociopath thinks like that.
I am putting a heads-up to people to THINK TWICE before you sign on the dotted line.
This has not even scratched the surface of the PSYCHOLOGICAL DAMAGE that can occur to people in these types of more in-depth seminars.
An LGAT seminar is literally a high-priced "brainwashing" session.
If you want to "rah-rah Robbins" then go ahead and do it in his forum. You might be doing it for 10+ years.
But if you want to see behind the curtain, then study what these LGAT seminars are all about.
Robbins is so talented, he can make strangers "feel like Tony is their best friend".
Ever wonder how bizarre it is for all these people who have listened to Tony on tape and never met him to "feel he is their best friend"?
That is NLP that did that. You can use NLP to get people to feel like that.
Read the traits of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. One of the key traits for this is lack of empathy.
[www.mental-health-today.com]
Remind you of anyone?
I am not trying to "convince" you of anything. I cannot compete with Tony's Juggernaut.
These high-priced seminar products are "scams". They are NOT what they say they are, they are something else altogether. Most people do NOT get the results they promise, and actually feel WORSE later on.
Almost every psychological technique they use is destructive and not helpful.
They are Selling Illusions for the highest price people will pay.
They have designed the "Ultimate Seminar Products" which are just smoke and mirrors.
Look at the Q-link Robbins is now endorsing![www.clarus.com]
There are much better roads to self-improvement than Tony Robbins. He has no professional accreditation in this field, that i am aware of. If he does, please let me know.
Of course, those who "believe" in Tony cannot even comprehend what i am talking about.
But many are Skeptical.
I say, be VERY Skeptical about Tony Robbins, and watch out for the salespeople, and stand guard the door of your mind.
Once Tony gets in there, its almost impossible to get him out.
Coz
But unfortunately, they just don't stick. But of course you are entitled to your opinion, and I hope things work out for you.
But here's the reality.
Tony has been questioned about his "stories" time and time again. My point about his "stories" is to WAKE PEOPLE UP. They look at him as some sort of Miracle Man. He is not. He is not only a man, and he is a fallible, flawed person, just like the rest of us.
Ok, what about all of his "stories" in his tape sets? Did you listen to what he admitted recently in "The Power To Shape Your Destiny" about them? If you believe his "stories" without any solid proof to back them up, I feel very sorry for you. Talk and "stories" are cheap. I need to see the hard evidence of these claims.
My point is to point out the Dark Side of all this. I have nothing against "self-improvement" or even Self-Actualization. What I don't like is when this impulse in people is exploited by these Self-help Gurus.
Personally, I am doing much better in life, AFTER I have moved beyond Robbins. Some of those psychological tools CREATE psychological dysfunction in people.
I have explained how using MUSTS to create stress in people is step 2 of the sales process, for instance. (create MORE PAIN in the customer, so you can heal them with your services).
As far as Tony Newspeak, what I am speaking about is much different. He has created a "private language" by redefining words. This creates "Groupthink" in his followers. Its a technique of "Mind Control" to create a comprehensive vocabulary to only be used by the "in group". Control their words, and you can control their thoughts and minds and behaviors.
Unfortunately, your last part of your post below, is way off the mark. Do you notice that you are focused on "you"?
I am talking about VULNERABLE PEOPLE.
These people are not "idiots".
I saw many of them just getting HOSED by the supersalespeople. Average folks, who actually believe things other people tell them. They are not "idiots", they are vulnerable people who are being RUTHLESSLY exploited by some of the most talented manipulators on this planet.
I see Robbins using HUNDREDS OF THE MOST POWERFUL TOOLS OF SOCIAL INFLUENCE IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD on people, and he is a Master at it. In my view, he literally "hypnotizes" them as he is claiming he is de-hypnotizing them.
Certain people are VERY "suggestible". These are the people who can totally get taken for a ride to bankruptcy. (get the money to come ANY WAY YOU CAN.)
I knew a simple, honest decent guy, who believed whatever his Guru would tell them, and LOST EVERYTHING to the Guru, and the Guru did not give a sh*t. The Guru showed CONTEMPT towards him. He lost his house...EVERYTHING to the Guru. The poor guy was in a Trance for about 3 years, and then he woke up, and it was too late. This happens all the time.
This is not about "you" or "your experience".
Sharks and Wolves LOVE Gurus like this as they teach them how to do it to other people!!
I am talking about the very real harm being caused to many people who do NOT know what is going on.
It is a sociopathic attitude to say, "well, some people are suckers, and they deserve what they get".
That is the attitude of the advanced super-salespeople.
BLAME THE VICTIM.
Every sociopath thinks like that.
I am putting a heads-up to people to THINK TWICE before you sign on the dotted line.
This has not even scratched the surface of the PSYCHOLOGICAL DAMAGE that can occur to people in these types of more in-depth seminars.
An LGAT seminar is literally a high-priced "brainwashing" session.
If you want to "rah-rah Robbins" then go ahead and do it in his forum. You might be doing it for 10+ years.
But if you want to see behind the curtain, then study what these LGAT seminars are all about.
Robbins is so talented, he can make strangers "feel like Tony is their best friend".
Ever wonder how bizarre it is for all these people who have listened to Tony on tape and never met him to "feel he is their best friend"?
That is NLP that did that. You can use NLP to get people to feel like that.
Read the traits of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. One of the key traits for this is lack of empathy.
[www.mental-health-today.com]
Remind you of anyone?
I am not trying to "convince" you of anything. I cannot compete with Tony's Juggernaut.
These high-priced seminar products are "scams". They are NOT what they say they are, they are something else altogether. Most people do NOT get the results they promise, and actually feel WORSE later on.
Almost every psychological technique they use is destructive and not helpful.
They are Selling Illusions for the highest price people will pay.
They have designed the "Ultimate Seminar Products" which are just smoke and mirrors.
Look at the Q-link Robbins is now endorsing![www.clarus.com]
There are much better roads to self-improvement than Tony Robbins. He has no professional accreditation in this field, that i am aware of. If he does, please let me know.
Of course, those who "believe" in Tony cannot even comprehend what i am talking about.
But many are Skeptical.
I say, be VERY Skeptical about Tony Robbins, and watch out for the salespeople, and stand guard the door of your mind.
Once Tony gets in there, its almost impossible to get him out.
Coz
Quote
Mozart
Also, with regard to his live seminars. I attended UPW in 2003. After the sunday part of the event I too was approached by sales people trying to get me to sign up to Mastery University. They tried the usual stuff that you have mentioned, like asking what is important to me and trying to link that to MU. So what?! You really have to nuts to hand over ten grand that YOU DO NOT HAVE just because someone says it can solve all your problems. That is just naive in the extreme and it's illogical to lay all the blame at the feet of the salespeople who are doing the job they're paid for and probably have family to feed and houses/cars to pay for. Having said that, I have yet to meet a salesperson I felt comfortable with :wink:
But people have to take responsibility for their decisions. I won't apologise for saying that anyone who goes to Tony's event and pays for MU on a credit card or a check and do not have the finances to pay for it is an idiot. Sure people will try and sell you Wealth Mastery as the solution to THAT problem (or challenge!) but people need to decide before they go to such an event how much money they're willing to sell at it.
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