I have been reading alot of postings from DiverGuy. Its amazing how he can't see how he is showing up with what he is addressing in others.

Finally coming to my senses after destroying my life with applying Klemmer to my life. As I remove the cloud of Klemmerize from my mind.

It is so apparent the relational destructiveness that gets enmeshed in a person who embraces Klemmer and its philosphy.

I am ashamed to admit I bought into this mindset for almost 2 years and even promoted Klemmer to people by getting them to attend these seminars. I even staffed many of these seminars and was part of the mechanism that I am now confronting as being extremely humanistic and destructive that needs to be avoided at all costs by people.

I am so glad the cloud of Klemmerize has finally been removed from my mind.

Things are so clear as I look back with 20/20 hindsight of my attending and going through all 4 seminars.

I now see how people get sucked into cults unknowingly.

Whoaaaa

Quote
Rswinters
I have been reading alot of postings from DiverGuy. Its amazing how he can't see how he is showing up with what he is addressing in others.

Finally coming to my senses after destroying my life with applying Klemmer to my life. As I remove the cloud of Klemmerize from my mind.

It is so apparent the relational destructiveness that gets enmeshed in a person who embraces Klemmer and its philosphy.

I am ashamed to admit I bought into this mindset for almost 2 years and even promoted Klemmer to people by getting them to attend these seminars. I even staffed many of these seminars and was part of the mechanism that I am now confronting as being extremely humanistic and destructive that needs to be avoided at all costs by people.

I am so glad the cloud of Klemmerize has finally been removed from my mind.

Things are so clear as I look back with 20/20 hindsight of my attending and going through all 4 seminars.

I now see how people get sucked into cults unknowingly.

Whoaaaa

Anyone here any more about Klemmer? Has this been in any newspapers or the press?

The only thing I could find about " Klemmer and Associates " were what looked like some very short articles in some newspapers - that advertised public courses Klemmer was going to be having, so not real objective reporting there.

Has anyone else found out more about them?

And how are they related to this Wilhite guy from the first post in this thread?

After Going through all 4 of their seminars and spending two years of my life being a strong supporter involved in helping as a volunteer staff on their different seminars.
I saw a company that has made an art of covering the negative. Not sure how they compare to other LGAT's but Brian Klemmer seems to be a very keen company owner that has learned the fine art of controlling public information with a strong ability of knowing how to manipulate and control the information that is delivered to the public.
Just like all the other LGAT's Klemmer & Associates has the same destructiveness that exist in these other LGAT's.
You just have to dig a lot deeper, and find those willing to stand up and oppose Klemmer.
I have first hand experience in this area. I also saw the destruction in other peoples lives and in their relationships as shared many times over on this website.
Just because Klemmer & Associates doesn't have that much negative press out there. Keep in mind this LGAT mindset that is in challenge on this website creates the destruction that has been shared by many that have been shared.
No matter how much candy coating is placed on the tools presented by a particular company. The outcome is the same across the board.

Here is an example; The bizarre part is that the couple I know here don't even see the destructiveness of Klemmers philosphy on their own lives. Its plain as day to the outside observer who knows them, and the details shared here.

I know of two Klemmer & Associates graduates husband & wife with 3 kids. I know them personally and they got involved in Klemmer a year before I did. So, they have been heavily involved with Klemmer for almost 4 years both are jobless living in a house they can't afford with a mortgage over 2 thousand a month and over 80 thousand in consumer debt also. They both are strongly in support of Klemmers philosophy and continuing to staff and promote Klemmer to people.
They both have been jobless for almost 3 years and trying to chase the dream of abundance that Klemmer keeps promising.
They both keep biting and spewing out the LGAT language that we have all come to hear on this website that has created this type of destruction in lives.
Here is the most absurd part of this story. The last I check this man and wife are still buying Klemmers philosophy that is just like the rest of the LGAT's.
Klemmer keeps convincing these two that they just need to change the meaning. If anything is addressed about what they have created in connection to Klemmer. Then the song and dance about Klemmer just presents tools, and how people choose to apply is their choice.
Thus the insane LGAT logic loops goes into swing we have all become so very aware of with these people involved in these destructive groups.

This coming July 2007 would be two years for my stepping into Klemmer and the couple that I shared about I believe by what they told me have been involved around 3 years give or take.

Sorry, I was rounding the dates and was more concerened in telling the destructive story versus checking my dates. I reread the post and noticed the error.

Sorry for that.

Klemmer & Associates doesn't have to address any negative accusations from former participants. Their participants take care of this dirty work and thus leaving Klemmer in a place as a company to wash hands of any negative fallout that occurs.

Like I said in several posts throughout this website about Klemmer & Associates. Brian Klemmer is a very smooth operator in keeping negative about his company from the public eye.

Here is a email reply to a fellow Klemmer Graduate of all their seminars. I went through levels 2 through 4 with this person. He sent me an email that was addressing my stand with exposing Klemmer to the public.

I posted links to Rick Ross Institute and I made strong declarations on the many forums that I was part of being from my being involved these past two years in Klemmer.

I will post what was sent to me if there is interest. But, what I wanted to post here was my reply to this person who was trying to get me to see the error of my ways and to come back into the Klemmer (LGAT) philosphy and mindset for my life.

Yuck, Yuck, Yuck. I will pass.

Here is my email relply that I sent back to him.


Re: look up and thoroughly read posts. Then we might have a talk...

Rick Ross Institute on the web. Look it up and read all the relational destruction from this Klemmer philosphy that is basically the same as the majority of LGAT's.

If you can read all of these posts and not hear the pain that this new age philosphy is doing in relationships in our society as a whole. Then you have been sucked in and are just as delusional as the ones refusing to see the pain of their behavior is creating with others as this philosphy is embraced by a person with alot of people in our society.

Rob, I want nothing to do with Klemmer as a company. They lost any and all credibility with me as they chose to operate without integrity, and consistency in how they handled my situation around how I was coached in Sam Camp, and my wife going through at a different time frame and was coached in a manner that opposed how I was coached. Plain and simple.

There was opposing coaching styles applied that took a already destructive marriage and pushed it over the edge. My coaching influence was to look at marriage with divorce as not an option, and Michele's coaching influence kept her in the mindset of a victim and why remain in a bad marriage. Totally opposite, opposing, and contradicting coaching influences to be applied in a already bad marriage.

Klemmer is not professionally licensed in psychiatric care, nor professional marriage therapists. Yet they choose to operate as such while having us sign legal waivers releasing them from any harm caused by this aspect. They state in waivers they are not, and then commence to be in seminars. THIS IS BULLCRAP...

Klemmer needs to be more accountable and responsible when dealing with marriages that are in conflict. I challenged them to take on a broader, and more responsible approach in future seminars. I confrontred them on this, and even sent Brian Klemmer an email on this matter. Klemmer is not even open to considering this aspect. This is plain and simple a lack of accountability, and a refusal to be responsible for how influential they are in peoples lives. Especially in marriages. Klemmer needs to take credit for all aspects that are created from seminars in peoples lives. Not just the credit for the good, but the bad as well.

Well, low and behold. All of my issues that I ran into in this regard has been consistently experienced by many, many, many others. Plus they have been ongoing for many years as you will note the many years this website has been in play. Look at the dates on these posts as you read them also.

This aspect is what is at the core of the many posts on Rick Ross Institute forum.

Look up the site, and read. Get your eyes off how Klemmer has helped you only. LOOK, LOOK, LOOK and read the overall relational harm and destruction from people choosing to be so self focused on creating self pleasure in their life.

Relationships are what makes this world, and this is exactly where the destruction is at in this garbage that is being dished out around some very good and useful tools that Klemmer is handing out.

I do not deny the tools as themselves in Klemmers seminars as being bad.

I am calling the context in which these tools as bad. Because of what it is producing overall in peoples relationships overall.

Cut the bullcrap attitude of fixing focus on me, or you. Look overall bud. Look

Not within the Klemmer bubble either. Look at the overall world aspect. Look at how overall in our society this mindset is having.

The Secret is taking a very valid principle and misusing it for selfish means and this is destroying our fabric of our society.

open your eyes, and look at the bigger picture.

I read this newsletter already. I still am sorting out what is good things for me to apply, and I am tossing out the garbage selfish mindset philosphy parts though.

You may choose to not contact me any further, and I am okay with that.

I will be participating in all that I can to expose Klemmer, and other LGAT's and the destruction they are creating in our society overall in the big picture of things.

I am not going to play small, and keep my eyes fixed just on me and how I have, or have not done whatever with these tools.

I am a world player, and I will take on my responsibility to expose this huge desception occuring.

Thanks anyway,

As you can tell. I am not afraid to be known by those in Klemmer & Associates. I have not given my name on this website. Yet, there has not been one word that I have posted on this site and the messages that I have posted.

Not one word am I afriad of facing within a court of law. I have been sharing my experience of Klemmer & Associates and what I believe about this company which is very similar to all the rest of these LGAT's addressed on this website.

Believe me, I have shared enough details that I know without a doubt that who I am is known by those who have chosen to read my posts.

I am not afraid of having my name be attached to my posts. I just choose not to come out and say it is all.

Those who have been connected to the circumstances that I have refered to in my posts will know who I am

I just wanted to make it clear that I am not being timid, or afraid to be known by those who want to say I was not involved in Klemmer & Associates and am making things up.

Thanks

I don't know how to do the links and all. But what rrmoderator posted on this thread on 11-25-2006 09:25 AM

Is very applicable here with connection to what I have been posting.

Especially around

13 liabilities of encounter groups, some of which are similar to characteristics of most current mass marathon psychotherapy training sessions:

So true, so true. Especially reading it from the angle of being a former graduate of 4 levels of seminars around this destrutive training.

I am definitely a casualty that is sorting out the mess within professional counseling at present.

I just got a reply from the guy I sent my email to that I posted.

Here is the logic that is ran into when things fail in LGAT's. It is never the LGAT's problem.

It is always how a participant chooses to be influenced by these supposed tools that are not either good or bad. Regardless the context they are delivered within.

Here it is:

HI ***,
I'm not sure where to even start. I hear a lot of anger and frustration from you and it sounds like things have not gone the way you wanted them to. But, maybe you can help me have a clear picture of what you did want out of your relationship. I'll tell you I didn't know whether you were coming or going half the time. Sometimes I heard things were the best with you two and then things were horrible. It seemed like you where on one crazy roller coaster of a ride.
I read a bunch of the posts and frankly all I saw and heard was blaming. The odd thing though is it seemed everyone there made the choices that they had already wanted to make. I can't tell you what anyone was coached or told to do other than myself. I was never told to make any specific life decisions. I was only coached to take action towards goals that I had chosen. Klemmer NEVER picked my goals or anyone else's that I know of. You know what, they asked me about different areas, including relationships and you know what happened? I said I thought about it (a relationship goal) and , "NO", I don't want to have a relationship goal. That was that. Why do some people have great happy results and some have unhappy destructive results? I don't know the full answer. Have you ever heard the term, "the devil made me do it." I'm sure you have. The devil can't make anyone do anything and neither can any group or coach. That is where you and I disagree at the moment. No one can make me do anything I don't want to do, even with encouragement. I also feel that too many create good things for this to be bad. Does money corrupt, power corrupt, the internet corrupt? Personnaly I think it's boils down to what kind of person I (or they) am. There are plenty of evil minded selfish wealthy people just as there are plenty of generous benevolent wealthy people. So are we going to say it's the money's fault and try to get rid of it? I won't tell you that your not feeling what you feel or how to feel. I hope you find some peace and hapiness. Your still a friend (a stubborn one) and my brother. If I can help, let me know....
Rob W