Suspect,

yep, it does sound preachy, and my feelings are completely invalidated by your statements.

'shad'

further, suspect, my friend's boyfriend dumped her yesterday, she is an absolute wreck. He also stated that he noticed a huge change in her, and not for the better. She has been totally destablized, half the time she does not know what she is talking about, she has mood swings that she never had before Landmark, .... on some level she knows that Landmark is to blame, but she is not able to figure it out because these QUACKS have totally messed with her mind. It is sad, frightening and disgusting, and I think your are full of self-serving, patronizing nonsence .

It IS NOT helpful to talk about how great your experience has been, when there are so many people on the message boards here expressing otherwise. Then add insult to injury by making it sound like the people who have not been to the sessions are somehow deficient. I hope you are never my therapist! (or my friend's, when she finally admits that she needs one, after the mess Landmark has made)

'shad'

suspect wrote:

Quote

I am a licensed therapist

What kind of therapist? A massage therapist?

If you are a psychologist or in any way working in the field of mental health, please provide your license registration number and other details, so that people who are already traumatized and suffering know where NOT to go for treatment.

Also, you wrote:

Quote

If you have gone and are feeling disturbed by stuff that got "stirred up" in there...open up and share with a good friend or find a therapist

How in the name of Zeus is someone supposed to do that, when they have been brainwashed to never tell anyone anything about the processes or experiences in the training, aside from the "effects"?

Please try to step out of your "coming from the heart" endorphin bliss and use your intellecual abilities to actually think about what Discovery does, how they do it, and why they do it.


You wrote:

Quote

And although I don't like most of the music they played and wouldn't choose to listen to the artists otherwise, I do listen to it from time to time, because it softens me up and helps me take a deep breath and get into a better frame of mind (kind of like a good run) and remember a lot of wonderful people who I met. That's it. So...I hope, at least, the whole CD thing has been de-mystified!

Yes, thank you, it has been demystified. You use it to re-trigger your discovery high, exactly what they provide it for.

Two more links in case you're interested.

Pathology as personal growth:

[www.culteducation.com]

Mary Polaski (psychologist):

[www.culteducation.com]

Thanks for the sane words, saneagain, to our friendly neighbourhood "therapist"...I could not articulate what I was feeling myself when I read "suspect's" comments...I have been vicariously traumatised by my friend's association with Landmark....

"suspect" sounds to me like a "Plant" if you know what I mean. I have been over to the landmark's message boards, did not register, but read the rules. Pretty interesting, and TYPICALLY CONTROLLING.

MESSAGE TO ALL promoters of Landmark/EST, Insight, Impact....go away, go mess with your own heads and leave us along, we are hurting enough without your so called "Help"...it is not helpful, and it is not wanted.

'shad'

This will be my second and final post, as requested by Shadow. I just wanted to clear up a couple of things.

One important clarification: although I am a licensed therapist, I would NEVER recommend a training I've been through personally to any client. And I will not nor have not recommended the training I attended to anyone with whom I work. NEVER. EVER. Major ethical conflicts of interest. So, I just want to clear that up.

Secondly, I don't believe that when one is in therapy, things MUST get worse before they get better...I've just noticed (in my personal experience in therapy, experiences of friends, family members and colleagues, etc.) that often, things MAY get worse (in terms of folks feeling temporarily sadder or lower functioning as they grieve a loss, fight an addiction, experience a major life transition, whatever). The point you bring up about solution-focused and cognitive behavioral training, Yasmin, is well-taken. But every licensed therapist is obligated to offer informed consent, which includes the risks and benefits of therapy...and one of those risks are that things may sometimes feel worse for a while.

Also, I didn’t attend Landmark. I realize that many of these LGATs have similar themes. I just wanted to clarify since some of the responses to my post referenced Landmark quite a bit.

Regarding the use of music and MY OWN personal experience here…I’ve been listening to music my entire life to trigger emotional responses within me. When I want a boost to feel energized while exercising, sometimes I listen to the same music I listened to in high school. When things aren’t going well with my husband, sometimes I’ll put on music from our wedding to help me step back and take a breath. This is just something I do and have always done—it’s not the training.

I do want to mention again that I don’t agree with every method used by the training I attended. And I did have some concerns about some of the attendees ability to handle what emotional baggage gets stimulated. I do have concerns about people opening up their life to change without professional follow-up. I will continue to consider this carefully as time passes and I evaluate the long-term effects of the training on me and those with whom I attended.

SaneAgain…thank you for the links. I read the Polaski series and it is concerning. I read a few of the articles before posting—not many. I will really wait it out a year or more to see if these changes I’ve experienced have been a superficial endorphin bliss and are only based on that high. I do see that this could be possible, and am hoping that I just learned a few tools for me and my life. I’m not hooked in with the training at all in terms of being active with it. Just went and came back and have been living my life. No massive external changes…I didn’t spend loads of money…I haven’t changed my social circles. This is just MY experience, and that’s what the original poster, “free” asked for. But I do hear that people have had some really awful experiences and I will be wary and appreciate the warnings.

I’m not connected in any official capacity to the training I attended. The reason I even posted was because I was responding to the original post I saw on this link by “free” which asked, “Has anyone had experience with Discovery Training in Dallas, TX? As far as I can see they are an LGAT but probably not as intense as PSI or Landmark Education.” Someone asked for another’s personal experience with the training, so I shared mine. That’s all. But, Shadow, since you’ve asked me to go away, I will not post again and respect that. I’m sorry about whatever happened with your friend and Landmark and hope things get better.

I had a good experience. I understand that for many, this may not be the case.

Take care.

Suspect, thank you for taking the time to read some articles. I am relieved you are not recommending the courses to clients.

May I ask you to consider one more thing:

If you ever get a client who has had a negative experience after the training, even if they don't directly link that to the training, could you consider refering them to someone more neutral? Based on my own experience, it would've been very traumatic for me to go to a therapist and find them (maybe unconsciously) dropping bits and pieces of lgat jargon and concepts, or even saying openly that they had attended the same courses. If there was any kind of secrecy or confidentiality agreement on your course, please consider the possible implications of this for someone seeking help.

Lastly, a few things you said indicate that you have an underlying assumption that people who do not respond well to the training are somehow already unstable or maybe weak or 'not ready'. May I ask that as you think about the training and its effects, that you set this assumption aside and play devil's advocate: imagine that is NOT the case, and see what other possible causes may come to light. This is not to say that pre-existing problems would not be exacerbated, I'm only asking that you consciously look for other possible explanations, because the 'already unstable' explanation is quite clearly a contributing factor in cases where it is true, but does not explain the majority of cases. And it raises a lot of interesting things to think about, which should interest you.

PS The problem with the music as a trigger is not that its a trigger for a nice memory, but that its a trigger for the conditioning / brainwashing, whichever word seems less crazy.

Hi Shadow, I know what you mean about sounding like a plant.

Suspect, the problem is that every single post we've ever seen on this site from someone supporting an lgat says the same thing as your's did. Some of them do turn out to be trolls, people working for the lgats and posting here in an attempt at damage control. Rather than be offended or imagine that Shadow is paranoid, please have another look at your first post and compare it to those by Maxui, Arad, fatherof3, otter and beaver. Also consider which parts of it may have caused offense, and which parts of it were discovery jargon or concepts - the parts match up.

It may seem irrelevant to talk about Landmark but all these courses traces back to est, now known as Landmark, and the core concepts and language and processes are the same.

Maybe also take some time to look at the PSI thread, where the main problem is relationships, which are not covered in the links I gave you. Based on the posts on this website, it looks like damage to relationships is the most common problem caused by these groups.

Thank you for acknowledging that you do have some concerns, despite your own good experience.

I think the user name “suspect” is very appropriate for this person who appears to be supporting this LGAT. Discovery HAS attempted mind control and tried to dictate who and how my wife spends her time with as well as the priorities in her life. Discovery is based on the same model as Landmark, Lifespring… There are even former members of Lifespring in the training staff. The group HAS attempted to mesh the term family with her support (that is a term we settled on since they are not family) group. Our therapist pointed this out when my wife stated she has a new family, and justified it as a different kind of family. They are not family. The group is encouraging this type of thinking through a structured list of who to call every Tuesday to check on them and keep them “living their contract” and “thinking with their heart”. Others higher up the chain of command are calling her to offer the same "encouragement". My wife has changed her social circles and said she is closer to these people than couples we have been friends with for years. She is fixated on this group, and contends they are the only ones her understand her!
Just as Shadow pointed noted, my wife experienced a huge change. She is now unstable, sometimes she cannot carry on an adult conversation, she has mood swings, and strikes out much like a small child would when they don’t get their way.

This group messed her up and I came here for support and hoping to glean information that might help her recover. Posts like Suspects are unwanted and do not help.
My wife emailed the group to see if anyone else was experiencing problems with spouses. She insisted there would be no reply……………… several out of the 50 or so in her group have the same issues. We have agreed on boundaries about who calls and how to respond to them.
One person in the group wrote he was thinking about her situation (meaning the problem I was having) and encouraged her to just think from her heart and go to the next training. How could someone who really cares encourage her to continue the behavior that is causing such stress?
My wife agreed to not listen to the music or interact with the group for a week. I have noticed a big change for the positive. Don’t get me wrong, it is still going to be a rough and long road, but removing the unhealthy influence has helped.
I have spoken to representatives of Discovery and they agreed damage to relationships is a potential problem. Also I read and article from 1970 that discussed individual having a problem with “reentry” into a relationship after attending a LGAT.
Suspect if you are still on here, I would also like your license/registration number. I am sure some people in Austin would love to speak with you about your involvement and get your side of the story.

EC

Quote
suspect
I can completely understand how, if you haven't gone...but a family member has...you might feel excluded or feel left out of a powerful experience your loved one has had. :-)

No suspect, you don't completely understand. In fact you don't have a clue.

I don't feel "left out of a powerful experience", I thank God Almighty that I dodged a bullet by not going to the seminar with my husband.

It's not being "left out of a powerful experience". It's being left out of my husband's [i:393bf815ae]life[/i:393bf815ae].

It's being replaced by strangers as the primary relationship in his life. (And isn't it interesting that the "graduates" are almost always set up with opposite sex people. This is not a coincidence.)

I have no idea whether you are really a therapist who has been brainwashed or whether you are the person in charge of marketing. Either way, everything you wrote sounds like the P.R. materials for every freakin LGAT there is.

If you really are just a person who went to the training, you have just demonstrated how LGAT's take unique human beings and turn them into interchangeable drones.