duxdeluxe:

You are here with an agenda.

And that agenda is as an apologist for both Sterling and MDI.

You have demonstrated this repeatedly through your posts here.

I would not recommend Sterling to anyone under any circumstances at any time.

It is not what any competent ethical doctor would order for anyone, nor is it what any therapist should ethically recommend.

Scientology sent out its volunteers to hi-profile disasters such as 9-11 and New Orleans, which garnered the group attention and some press. Sterling has done the same for years through its volunteer group.

See [www.culteducation.com]

You have demonstrated on this thread several things about MDI and Sterling.

Essentially, that MDI people are often produced by Sterling and that they cannot be relied upon to be objective about Sterling.

MDI sounds at best like "Sterling light."

But anything connected with Sterling is not something that should be recommended to anyone for anything.

If you wish to support MDI this is your choice.

But to anyone reading this thread, it should recognized that LGATs have a deeply troubled history and Sterling has one of the worst.

MDI by association is suspect to say the least.

RRModerator,

I stated my agenda on another post. It is certainly not to appologize for anything. It is to invite feedback and criticism based on actual experience not on uneducated opinion. And before you take offense, by uneducated I mean with out actual first hand knowledge. Not what some one said anonymously or what you believe based on what you have read but based on what you have actually experienced.

For example, 10 years ago I was diagnosed with MS. Not a day goes by without someone offering me some therapy or drug I should try. However, I am the only one who can truly know what my body is going through and how to best treat it. Even if my choice is one that someone else with MS might not share. Even my neurologist recognizes that and all he can do is show me my MRI's and offer me possibilities. I need to determine if the side effects of the drugs are worth the potential pay off.

It is not unlike what I have experienced through some of the work I have done with MDI and other organizations. There are times when what I discover about myself can be uncomfortable and painful but I am the only one who can decide what I am going to do with that discovery. I can't imagine living a life in avoidance of pain and discomfort, it would mean just keeping myself locked in a room.

I am a little concerned that you feel qualified to make a statement like "no ethical doctor or therapist would...."

I suggest you read Robert Moore on the importance of male rituals. www.robertmoore-phd.com

Moore is a Jungian professor at the University of Chicago, well published, and well reviewed. He has done considerable work with the Mankind Project (another group targeted by this board) and speaks highly of them. I believe Bill Moyer, Joseph Campbell, Robert Bly, James Hillman, Sam Keen and many others share Moore's view. That doesn't make them right and you wrong. All it does it highlight that there are a multitude of opinions out there.

By taking a black and white, right/wrong stance on this forum don't you see that you are doing the very thing you chastise other organizations for doing ... you are trying to control the opinions and actions of others not based on your personal experience but on your opinions and what you think is the right path.

I have read the posts on this forum about Landmark, the Mankind project, Sterling and others and think the most effective posts are those by people who went through the process and can articulate why it either did or did not work for them. There is a lot of truth on both the pro and con side. I urge you to encourage the dialogue and not to feel the need to add your opinion. As the moderator of this forum you have unchecked power to determine what gets on here and how it is subsequently spun. I'd like to think that there is enough information on here to allow people to come to their own conclusions.

If my agenda is anything it is to further the dialogue because like it or not there are people who can tell you how each of these organizations positively affected their lives. That doesn't mean everyone should do it but people should be aware of the option and make their own choice.

As for your steadfast devotion to qualified doctors and therapists, I'll remind you there was time when electroshock therapy was considered an effective treatment by doctors and homosexuality was considered a curable "disease".

Even doctors learn from their mistakes. And today you will find therapists and doctors disagreeing on the appropriate treatment for just about anything. Not long ago western medicine looked at acupuncture as voodoo but there is nothing that has helped me more with my MS and now my insurance company gladly pays for my treatments.

There is this great quote from Andre Gide the writer, humanist, and moralist who received the Nobel Prize for Literature in 1947.

"Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it."

I'd like to think that is one of the guiding principles behind MDI. And if anything I am certain I have yet to find the truth but I am not about to stop looking and questioning.

And again thank you the generosity of this forum.

Howard Spierer

Unabashed apologist for the freedom of thought.

Living life large with passion and heart.

duxdeluxe:

I have been receiving complaints first had about Sterling from past participants, concerned spouses, families and friends for more than ten years.

Sterling has a horrible history of complaints, bad press and is generally seen as a fringe group and not well respected.

It is not necessary for someone to drive drunk, smoke or attend Klan meetings to know it's a bad idea.

Research through reading and due diligence is the way many thinking people make well informed decisions, first hand experience is not necessary.

For example, as a supposed attorney you should know that is not necessary for an expert to attend the meetings, seminars and programs of a group or company to render expert testimony.

I have been accepted as an expert witness in ten states, including US Federal Court.

IMO -- Sterling is a cult-like group that uses coercive persuasion to achieve undue influence over participants, which is essentially done to make money for Justin Sterling, as Sterling is a business.

I have worked with mental health professionals, licensed counselors, social services and law enforcement regarding cults and cult-like groups for 25 years.

IMO -- it would be highly unethical for a doctor or therapist to recommend Sterling in any way, shape or form.

Again, you are not here to help anyone other than yourself and your group.

You hope to muddy the water, bother people here and generally are attempting to subvert this thread.

It is telling that someone like you would come here to do that, but there it is as a fact on this thread.

Frankly, what your posts also point up, is that regardless of education, you say that you are an attorney, people can be taken in by LGATs like Sterling, Mankind Project and Landmark Education.

Dear duxdeluxe,
Your comment to the moderator more than concerns me.

"I am a little concerned that you feel qualified to make a statement like "no ethical doctor or therapist would...." "

This message board is for all who come for support and healing. The moderator has run through the gamit of seeing and hearing about all the devastation and destruction that these cults, especially the large LGAT cults have done to people, so as to criticize his ability to judge them is futile.

He, in my opinion, is more than qualified to detect cultish behavior. Period...end of story.

Pick and choose as you may but don't preach to anyone how it's done wonders for you. Every individuals quest for healing is unique, I have to agree with you on that, but it's dangerous grounds when you support a group that has literally destroyed lives in it's process of operation.

Remember...a legit group would leave not one broken in it's wake. The leader would go down with the ship to save every last soul before his own.

Everyone has a choice to what their purpose is during their very personal walk on this planet. That's the truth of the matter. Personal. It's no one elses business to dictate or come up with miraculous answers to who you are inside. You already are perfect if you have a genuinely caring soul about what happens too you and your loved ones.

These LGAT leaders are more evil in nature than the convicts locked up in our prisons. At least the murderers and rapists show their true colors loud and clear.

These cult leaders walk amongst us like they're God himself, slipping in, then out of a person's unsuspecting soul, sucking the life out of them like a fucking venomous spider leaving behind all but the flimsy shell of their victim. Does that sound God like?

In my opinion, I would chose a group that cares for the well being of all it's members equally, instead of filling your head with disgusting crap, disguised as something empowering.

I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to literally throw up all the disgusting shit that was told to me...all the stuff in my memory bank I wish I never had to keep in my brain. But it's there...as a reminder to remind people like yourself to not get close to those preditors. And a reminder to you that someone like Rick Ross knows what the hell he's talking about. A huge Amen to him.

Freedom Fighter

wow - it can really get intense when these apologists appear here. I haven't read the whole thread but there were some stories in the beginning about landmark. One person was diagnosed with bipolar disease. I think landmark produces manic-depressives en masse. You think you have found the answer to all sorts of problems and you fell god like.

I don't know enough about MDI and Sterling. But MDI seems to be an "off shoot" of Sterling - this goes on all the time. Landmark/est was "created" from Scientology because Werner Erhard thought he could do it better. Then there are many many "off shoots" from Landmark and on it goes.

Thanks RR for engaging in this and providing this forum - I am just amazed at the stupidity of the apologists - always when they come here they spout the same jargon "you base your opinions on heresay" "you didn't participate in the forum so you don't know what you are talking about"....

Usually it ends up with them bailing out because they never really address valid questions with a valid response. But it lies in the nature of a mind controlled human being. You have to defend your beliefs even if they suck...

nettie
a brainwashed entity who is clearing the planet from now on. Tom Cruise and I are sooo goood friends. NOT!

STERLING Institute-MDI_Bad for the ladies
Dear DuxDeluxe,
Do you have daughters? Sisters? Nieces?
Do you think it's OK for men in the Sterling Institute of Relationship and Mens Division to advocate using women, practicing having "sex only" relationships?
This is something that is well-documented and a focus of discussion in your "weekends". Men are discouraged from having decent, honest relationships unless they've used and tossed out a few FIRST.

Is this kind of shallow and dishonest behavior really necessary before a man can "find the source of his power"? Does that power come from taking power away from another human being? Believe it or not, while there are differences between the sexes (viva le diference), we are first and foremost human beings who desire to be valued, not used.

just wanted to tell you, your response to duxdeluxe was awesome.