Current Page: 2 of 17
Landmark and litigation re: France 3 video - false claims
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: November 02, 2006 02:54AM

[www.redherring.com]

Quote

RED HERRING, The Business Of Technology

Google, YouTube Video Challenge

Rights group attacks self-help group’s Google and YouTube ‘cult’ video demands.
October 31, 2006

An international self-help organization has subpoenaed YouTube and Google Video for the identity of the individuals who uploaded a French-made video that the group believes infringes its U.S. copyright, and that subpoena is being challenged by a U.S. digital rights group.


The case revolves around a French documentary that portrays the Landmark Forum, an international educational group, as a cult, a portrayal the group sees as damaging.

The documentary, entitled Voyage to the Land of the New Gurus, includes hidden camera footage purportedly from inside a Landmark Forum event in France, as well as from inside the Landmark offices in France.

The forum charges that the documentary also includes material from its manual, which the organization said is protected by U.S. copyright law, so when the documentary showed up on YouTube, Google Video, and Internet Archive, the San Francisco-based Forum sprang into action.

The organization subpoenaed the three web sites hosting the video for the identities of the uploaders.

According to the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a San Francisco-based digital rights organization challenging the subpoenas, the forum has the right to subpoena the material without a lawsuit under the rules of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA).


Free Speech Masquerade

But the EFF sees this as a free speech case masquerading as a copyright infringement case.

“This is a classic example of using a bogus copyright claim to squelch free speech,” EFF Staff Attorney Corynne McSherry said in a statement.

“To the extent that the documentary uses any Landmark material, that use is clearly non-infringing,” she added. “Landmark is simply trying to use the streamlined DMCA subpoena process to obtain the identities of its critics.”

Google is challenging the subpoena issued to Google Video. The search king, which is in the process of acquiring YouTube, refused to provide the uploader’s identification pending a ruling on its challenge.

According to the EFF, YouTube notified the user of the subpoena and is giving the user the option of legally challenging the subpoena.

“Sharing videos on the web is the latest example of free speech flowering on the Internet,” EFF staff attorney Kurt Opsahl said in a statement.

“Unfortunately, it is being met by a simultaneous rise in the use of baseless legal claims as an excuse to pierce anonymity and chill speech,” he said. “This kind of intimidation has to stop.”

Legal Accommodations

U.S. law has to find accommodations for online video as the technology grows in popularity, according to Roger Kay, principal analyst of Wayland, Massachusetts-based Endpoint Technologies Associates. Copyright is only the first such issue, but gradually issues of free speech and privacy are starting to emerge, sometimes in conjunction with copyright.

“Copyright is usually a compensation and commercial protection issue, not exclusively a means of preventing others from saying something about you,” said Mr. Kay. “In most cases content owners want to get paid. Google should be quite familiar with copyright and payment.”

EFF is also challenging the forum’s assertion that the video contains the organization’s manual.

“It is a news documentary critical of the Landmark organization in France,” the EFF’s research said. “Moreover, even if Landmark’s copyrighted works were visible in the documentary, any such limited and transformative use of a copyrighted work for purpose of criticism, commentary, and news reporting is self-evidently fair use and, therefore, non-infringing.”

Contact the writer: CMedford@RedHerring.com

Options: ReplyQuote
Landmark and litigation re: France 3 video - false claims
Posted by: joe6 ()
Date: November 02, 2006 05:09AM

Quote
nutrino
I believe this is a superb example of a new culture shift beginning to be felt.. the enabling technologies like YouTube's video servers, are radically changing power dynamics between "closed systems" and the public domain... Landmark's gigantic conceptual error is that this is nothing more than a series of local brushfires that have to be stamped out before they spread, when in fact it is a wholesale paradigm shift in HOW a culture operates... which is supremely IRONIC as Werner "Fearless Leader and Godlike One" Erhard was incessantly harping on the power of...... shifts ! There was this great shift coming, you see... Well, Mr. Erhard, at long last you've got your shift....

Well, Landmark better start stamping faster. The video on Daily Motion is over 1000 views now, with what looks like 100 of those in the last day.
And concerning the new "shift", what would happen if Google/You Tube had to give Landmark the "identiy" of the user anyway. Wouldn't this just be a random email address? What, are they going to sue an email address?

Options: ReplyQuote
Landmark and litigation re: France 3 video - false claims
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: November 02, 2006 05:52AM

Quote
joe6
And concerning the new "shift", what would happen if Google/You Tube had to give Landmark the "identiy" of the user anyway. Wouldn't this just be a random email address? What, are they going to sue an email address?

No, they can trace any person using the "IP address" which cross-referenced through the person's ISP account, will reveal who they are.
But that would not apply if the video was uploaded from a "public computer" at some internet cafe that does not require personal information to use their computers, and there are other exceptions as well.

But according to the statement, the Internet Archive does not keep server records, so in that case there appears to be no information there.

Here is another blog entry about the Landmark abuses.

[www.privacydigest.com]

Quote

DMCA Subpoenas Should Not Be Abused to Silence Speech.

The much maligned Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) allows a copyright holders to unmask an Internet user's identity based on a mere allegation of infringement without filing an actual lawsuit or providing the user any due process. DMCA 512(h) is troubling enough when used in cases of actual infringement, but even more troubling when used to stifle critical speech -- and far worse when the content at issue is about the subpoena-seekers, not by them.
Today, EFF announced that it is fighting back against Landmark Education's attempts to abuse DMCA subpoenas to Google Video, YouTube and the Internet Archive to identify people who posted a video documentary critical of the organization.
The French documentary, entitled Voyage Au Pays Des Nouveaux Gourous (Voyage to the Land of the New Gurus), is not copyrighted by Landmark, but it does contain hidden camera footage from inside the Landmark Forum. To the extent that Landmark has any copyright at all at issue, such limited and transformative use of a copyrighted work for purpose of criticism, commentary, and news reporting is self-evidently fair use. While Landmark may believe that the documentary is unfair (as asserted in its letters), the DMCA is not an appropriate way to identify critics.
Landmark's efforts are being challenged on multiple fronts. The Internet Archive is fighting its subpoena, and EFF filed official objections on its behalf. EFF will also file a motion to quash the subpoena issued to Google Video, on behalf of the anonymous speaker who uploaded the video. Google has advised Landmark that it will not produce the requested information pending a ruling on that motion. YouTube sent notification to the user about its subpoena, and is giving the user a reasonable opportunity to move to quash it.
The video is also available on the French video site, Daily Motion. It is unclear whether Landmark has sought identity information from Daily Motion.
You might recall that EFF helped Verizon successfully limit the scope of DMCA 512(h) when the RIAA attempted to attain the identities of P2P file sharing users. The D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals held that the provision doesn't apply to content residing on individuals' own computers. But 512(h) still does apply to content on an>even more reasons why substantive reform of this provision is necessary.

Options: ReplyQuote
Landmark and litigation re: France 3 video - false claims
Posted by: critical_thinker ()
Date: November 02, 2006 10:58AM

I'm curious to know if Rick Ross can read or write French?

Options: ReplyQuote
Landmark and litigation re: France 3 video - false claims
Posted by: ajinajan ()
Date: November 02, 2006 05:45PM

it's mentioned on yet another site :

[b:5589d1c5f3]Landmark Forum Violates Constitution and Federal Law by Trying to Chill Speech[/b:5589d1c5f3]
PressZoom.com
[presszoom.com]

Options: ReplyQuote
Landmark and litigation re: France 3 video - false claims
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: November 02, 2006 09:51PM

No I don't speak French and did not translate the video dialog to create either the subtitles or transcript now available through the Internet regarding the France 3 report about Landmark.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Landmark has humiliated itself once again through its abuse of the Digital Millineum Act and will lose in its attempt to abuse the act to go against its critics.

Art Schreiber apparently learned very little from his last legal defeat.

Maybe he will eventually have a "breakthrough" and realize that his days of intimidating critics on the Internet are over.

Options: ReplyQuote
Landmark and litigation re: France 3 video - false claims
Posted by: Brad69 ()
Date: November 02, 2006 10:11PM

As a matter of interest, I spoke to a person who does translations from French to English for a living.

He described the work done on the Landmark video as 'pristine'.

Among words used on the thesaurus on Microsoft Word for pristine: Immaculate, Perfect, Faultless, Pure.

Enough said. The translation was accurate.

Options: ReplyQuote
Landmark and litigation re: France 3 video - false claims
Posted by: nutrino ()
Date: November 03, 2006 03:05AM

Quote
critical_thinker
I'm curious to know if Rick Ross can read or write French?

Go to your dictionary and look up the definition of [b:95eaf993ad] pathetic[/b:95eaf993ad] .

Landmark has achieved the exact opposite of its' intentions. It has manufacured a [i:95eaf993ad]cause celebre[/i:95eaf993ad] of global proportions, making itself look like a herd of clueless jackasses...

I gots some real bad news for youse... was in the UK recently, and they have popular books, like the kind you can buy in airports, that are "deconstructing" LGATs.... like, you know.... and here's the interesting thing, my critical thinker friend, they ARE tallking about Landmark, which they don't name directly, but given their descriptions, which do appear to be directly inspired by the ummmm.... "conversation" here on the Rick Ross board, it's hard indeed to mistake WHO they are talking about, and they go into fairly specific detail about the style and structure of "a LGAT which shall not at this time be named by name"....

So, wake up and smell the rotting corpses, especially the rotting corpses the Erhardians are dragging around with them in their little red wagons, [b:95eaf993ad]there is an international listening of UP YOURS that is getting sharper by the day[/b:95eaf993ad] , [i:95eaf993ad]and my listening of their listening of your listening is that a real sharp shift is right around the corner[/i:95eaf993ad], and it won't be particularly sympathetic to you listening...

Options: ReplyQuote
Landmark and litigation re: France 3 video - false claims
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: November 03, 2006 03:19AM

These Landmarkians seem to be beyond irrational when it comes to Rick Ross. I looked at their litigation from before, and they found some phony "expert" to try and say that Rick Ross was writing all of the critical comments about Landmark in these forums himself, and pretending to be all these different people! That has to be one of the most asinine things I have ever seen alleged in my life. Anyone can see that there are many people all over the internet who are criticizing Landmarks methods, and that dozens of people come to this site to speak their minds.
Obviously, its was a specious attack, just to try to shutdown this website.

Also, anyone notice that the letter by Art Schreiber to Google, YouTube, etc, was extremely poorly written? Lets face it, that was a very poorly written letter from a lawyer, full of irrelevancies, and almost rambling in parts. What sane company would hire a lawyer who wrote rambling letters full of irrelevencies?

Its a completely specious claim Landmark is making about this video.
First, they don't own the copyright for that video! The French network does. That video is not Landmarks property!
Next, any idiot knows that a NEWS program is legally allowed to use portions of various materials as part of a story. You would have to be brain dead to not know that.

Landmark knows that their claims are ridiculous. Perhaps it is a make-work project for certain legal people to make a higher personal income?
But it appears to simply be about attempting to harass, and intimidate people, and try to censor Landmarks critics.
Its just like their seminars.
Take some regular people, and then attack, humiliate, and try force them to submit.

It appears that Landmark will destroy itself with its own methods.
Just wait until a '60 Minutes' type piece about them comes out in the USA.
This will lead to a large class-action suit against them, and hopefully will put them out of business.

Options: ReplyQuote
Landmark and litigation re: France 3 video - false claims
Posted by: ajinajan ()
Date: November 03, 2006 03:35AM

this from SLASHDOT:
[yro.slashdot.org]
Quote

An offshoot of the [b:a177d9b224]Scientology cult known as The Landmark Forum[/b:a177d9b224] is using the DMCA against YouTube, Google and The Internet Archive because of a scathing French documentary about Landmark being shared on those sites. It aired in France to 1.5 million people, a month later Landmark pulled out of France. Story at the EFF's site [eff.org] and other news sources.

The video with English subtitles is available via BitTorrent at PirateBay [thepiratebay.org], search eMule for "Inside Landmark Forum" or view it online at DailyMotion [dailymotion.com].

and don't forget the other news sites:
[www.axcessnews.com]
and
[www.securitypronews.com]
and
[www.p2pnet.net]
and
[www.redherring.com]
and
[presszoom.com]
and
[www.privacydigest.com]
and
[www.eff.org]
and
[www.cultnews.com]
and
[www.culteducation.com]

I wonder when this will get picked up by more major mainstream media press outlets.........

Options: ReplyQuote
Current Page: 2 of 17


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
This forum powered by Phorum.