Ali5683

Yes Impact's presentation of all things Pagan/New Age has some shady overtones.
I totally agree about the affair thing, as I was THIS close to having one myself when I was involved in LMT. I know of several people that left or got the boot related to affairs that happened at the top, so to speak. I know a specific gal that Hans had extramarital relations with. SO YEAH...stay away.
I totally get the need for therapy, too.
Thanks for coming here to share.

I have a question.

This is the Cult Education Forum, right? What does an education about cults entail? Does it mean people learn basic psychological concepts to help them avoid cults in general, or is it just about venting about one cult in particular (i.e. Impact) that took advantage of them and cost them a lot of money but didn't solve all their problems as promised -- but rather created lots of new problems? Is the development of critical thinking skills a part of that education or no?

While I recognize that we are all individuals with different beliefs and experiences, the belief in New Age concepts that several posting here have expressed seems antithetical to a cult education. Here's my take, FWIW. Getting people to rely on their feelings as a way of determining truth seems to be a common denominator in cult recruiting and retention efforts. "You can't trust your mind. Listen to your heart. Stop thinking so much because it's getting in the way of finding your truth ... Drink the Koolaid." Another oft-repeated idea I heard again recently from another cult, "Where there is doubt, there can be no faith." The clear message is STOP THINKING and GIVE US YOUR MONEY. People who think for themselves do not good cult members make. They question, they doubt, they use reason and logic, and they trust their own minds more than some leader spewing some ethereal feel-good hope that they want to believe in but have no way of knowing.

Making people distrust their own minds is a cult's proverbial foot in the door. Promising people things that cannot be known or proven in exchange for loyalty is their MO. Making people feel guilty or inadequate such that they will succumb to the delusion rather than admit they don't know has worked for centuries. All the LGATs do it. All cults do it. Critical thinking seems the only weapon (or shield if you prefer) a person has to keep them from falling for the bullshit.

So call me crazy or too opinionated or whatever you want. But I'm calling "bullshit" on the pandering to and promoting of New Age beliefs on this board. It's fine to believe whatever you want but it's not fine to promote the same kind of thinking that got people sucked into the rabbit hole to begin with, especially in a forum that is here to educate and help people recover from just that kind of "thinking."

There was actually someone who almost had an affair with Hans or did have an affair with Hans? That's just gross!! There are so many people who worship him as a God. It's crazy. I did go to the All Grad training in Salt Lake and it was just a waste of a Saturday. Hans talked forever and although many people look up to him a lot got up to use the restroom because they were falling asleep. I was one of them. LOL

Early on I noticed how ridiculous it is to "staff" a training because they don't pay there staff anything and they get little sleep and food. Not to mention they treat them like crap!

They always say that more than 140,000 people have gone through the training but if you do the math it doesn't add up. Here is how I figure:

They've been open since 1985. That is 288 months. Even though 100 don't go through Quest every month lets use that number anyway. 100 X 288 = 28,800 people in about 29 years. But, they have had other trainings in other parts of the country. So it's safe to maybe add another 20,000 just to be safe. So, if my math is correct then it's safe to say that only 48,800 people have attended the training. Not more than 140,000. Not even close. They mention this all the time. I laugh because of how untrue it is. Anyone else been curious on this number? lol

I definitely agree with you on the "no thinking" crap. At Impact they are constantly correcting people on there language. If someone says any of the following words: think, believe, help, right, wrong, hope, try, want, need, understand. There may be more but those are the most used. Think and believe are replaced with feel, help is replaced with assist, there is no right or wrong only what works and doesn't work, there is no hope, there is no try either you do it or you don't, you can want but you'll never have if you just want, need is replaced with deserve and understand is replaced with get and the saying goes "understanding is the booby prize of life. All cult like and mind control stuff. It's sad that so many people don't see it.

The last time I staffed which was February I had already decided I didn't agree with the majority of what Impact preaches. But I felt obligated to be there. Classic sign of manipulation. But after talking to many people who have "chosen out" of the training all together it was so clear to me. I was thinking the whole time because as jk.genesis said in the last post "People who think for themselves do not good cult members make." I didn't do so well here. lol Gee, I wonder why.

Anyone have info on LMT? The processes they use or anything? I know in LMT 1 they dress up in colors of each chakra. LOL Lame! Anything else?

I just want to say it makes me happy to see more people leaving impact and finally seeing what is really going on.The persuasion is extremely powerful and once they sink their hooks into you it is hard to break away.People tend to be to credulous and this makes us very vulnerable to brainwashing.I just want to say that people can believe in what ever they want spiritually or religiously but only with full disclosure and the ability to use critical thinking in
making a decison on whether you want to participate or not.Methods used are unethical and I think should be illegal.If you've broken away and are still under the influence read books combatting cult mind control by Steven Hassan to start and then cults in our midst by Margaret Thaler Singer and research about how the great life foundation and impact were once one in the same and about the lawsuits and why they split up and the lawsuits over the property in oakley.And research where LGATS came from and who ran them and check out and what kind of people they were and the trouble they caused many.Check out Guy and Edna Ballard that will lead you to Godre Ray King and Mount Shasta and cougar meadow and lemurians and crystals .Read what Guy and Edna's group did to a lot of people.Basically they were charlatans who conned a lot of people.Check out ELizabeth Clair Prophet and her group and what they did and where they ended up and what she had her followers believing.Check out lifespring ,landark ,est,scientology and you'll see they all use a lot of the same methods to recruit and that's just to name a few these types of groups cults are all over the country and they seem to be operating under the radar.As for what goes on in lmt they go deep into new age theosophy which isn't new by any means.They use violet flame decrees they chant they meditate they conduct healing circles.They go deeply into trances and visualize and continue to be conditioned without knowing it.I know a lot more on the subject but don't claim to be an expert by any means I was just deeply involved and am thankful for this thread and my abililty to break free.I did a lot of research as you can see and it helped me back up my gut feeling about what was being done to me and others.I just hope somehow someway the things I do will help all the people I know that are still involved in the trainings.

jk.genesis: I think I met you in IRL at the 08 exmo conference. Please don't take offense at what I have to say.

You said it is just this kind of thinking that get's people sucked in in the first place. That is narrow minded and you are generalizing. New Age philosophy runs a wide continuum, and there are almost as many different opinions as there are people who dig some of this stuff. Here is what 'New Age' is, from "BeliefOMatic"

An umbrella term for a wide range of personal and individual beliefs and practices influenced primarily by Eastern religions, paganism, and spiritism.

• Belief in Deity
God is the impersonal life force, consciousness, ultimate truth and reality, the incorporeal, formless cosmic order personified within all people and matter. God is all and all are God.

• Incarnations
Most believe there are no particular incarnations to worship, as all in the universe are embodiments of God.

• Origin of Universe and Life
The universe, life, and matter were not created by God but "are" God. The universe and life emerged out of the creative power of the eternal universal life force.

• After Death
Some believe in continual rebirth--no death--as life is spirit. Some believe that our souls rest for a time before deciding on a new body (or bodies). Heaven and hell are states of consciousness, self-imposed, due to ignorance of God as all.

• Why Evil?
No original sin, no Satan, and no evil. Most believe people make "mistakes" when they are ignorant of the power of goodness, which is God, within themselves and others. Some believe evil is perpetuated through accumulation of past-life wrongs and spiritual ignorance.

• Salvation
Salvation lies in the realization of oneness with the impersonal life force. Awareness can be heightened through methods that induce altered states of consciousness, e.g., hypnosis, meditation, music, drugs. Spiritual "tools" include crystals, tarot cards, amulets, channeling, fortunetellers and psychics. Some believe the salvation of humanity will occur when a critical mass is reached, when people converge in experiencing their oneness with God and with each other. This will bring a New World Order or new Planetary Order, resulting in oneness of civilization and one-world government, peace, and harmony.

• Undeserved Suffering
Suffering is the result of greed, hatred, and spiritual ignorance in a person's, or humanity's, past lifetimes, which returns as suffering (karma). Suffering is sometimes viewed as occurring for a specific purpose, to further spiritual growth and learn a life lesson. Suffering is also seen as illusory, in that it results from attachment to bodily pleasure and pain, and only the universal life force within, God, truly exists.

• Contemporary Issues
Abortion is not condemned, as there is no official doctrine. Generally, adherents are supportive of a woman's right to choose abortion.

Now, how is this philosophy being pandered and promoted here on this board? Are we, who left Impact, telling you this system is IT, the Super way, the one true system? We are not dominating the tone of the conversation with it. The main focus is and remains: Impact. There have been 147 pages and many personal experiences relayed in the hope that it might save someone else. It is ok to empathize with someone else who just posted their story for the first time. Emotional Intelligence is a known force. It is ok to feel along with critical thinking.

Also, are you implying that it is not appropriate to vent on this forum? In order to educate oneself, you first have to understand the trauma, abuse, and mindjob you've endured and then you are sufficiently motivated to try and figure out how not to let this happen to you again. I am insulted by your comments that infer that this would not be the place to vent. In fact, it takes a lot of courage for former members to speak out here about their negative experiences, because I know for a fact that leaders eyeball this arena. How many places on the internet do you see that tells anything about the abuses of impact? That's right, just this one and a couple others. The rest of the sites are all put up by Hans's minions, and there's a ton lately. Can you be tolerant that it takes a long time to sort through WTH you believe after you've put all your energy and life into that cult and isolated yourself from your family and friends? Wouldn't you want to vent? Couldn't your coping skills be just a little underdeveloped? I am grateful this place even exists. Existential Crises have even lead some former cult members in general to end their lives, so try to be more understanding and tolerant that some of us are sorting through what we believe. Just like in leaving Mormonism, I had to go through a process of asking myself, "well, do I still believe in Jesus?" Trust me, I wouldn't be here if I didn't want to educate myself. I have read all 147 pages of this thread now. I have read Hassan's mind control book.

American society itself, would fall prey to what you call exactly 'this kind of thinking.' Belief in the supernatural is everywhere, and there are some rather nasty examples of extremism that you and I could converse about. I don't think cutting off emotions is healthy In figuring out what I believe, cutting my feelings off isn't healthy. We humans are all wired to search for meaning in our lives. The mysteries of the human mind extend far beyond what you, are I, or anyone can be certain about. Logic and scientific, left brain thinking is useful, but it is not the answer to everything, nor could it be. While I believe that a religious framework has its downfalls (um, dueling religious wars, intolerance in God's name) belief in the supernatural isn't always dangerous. It can be comforting and peace-promoting. So basically a balanced body, mind, and soul connection is what I seek in my pursuit of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Is there any kind of support group for those who have gone through LGATs? I am struggling with some things and it would be so nice if someone put something together like that. Anyone know anything?

Thanks. :)

I wanted to share here about an interesting message I personally received from Hans recently. I found it more funny that anything because I believe that no one is above anyone no matter what. I truly believe we are all equals on this planet so for someone to actually tell me they are above me and that they ARE God, makes me laugh.

There is a legal issue that Impact has nothing to do with but has gotten involved in so my attorney is handling it. But Hans decided to call me and his exact words in part of his message are "I will not support you or the law in that and the law has no claim whatsoever over Impacts get togethers." Interesting huh? He actually thinks he is above the law.

There is more to the story that I am open to sharing to those who would like to private message me if that's ok. If this site has that option. Don't feel quite comfortable going into too much detail here.

I have been doing some research on Psychotherapy Cults and Impact falls right into what the description is. Impact claims they are not a cult but they say those who deny they are cult usually are a cult. There were so many times that people, including staff and the trainers, brought up the word cult. They would say "cult comes from the word culture so we're not a cult." Cult actually comes from the word cultus, meaning "care" or "adoration." Something else to consider:

"By cultism we mean the adherence to doctrines which are pointedly contradictory to orthodox Christianity and which yet claim the distinction of either tracing their origin to orthodox sources or of being in essential harmony with those sources. Cultism, in short, is any major deviation from orthodox Christianity relative to the cardinal doctrines of the Christian faith."

Repeatedly Impact will claim they are not a religion in any way yet they constantly talk about God, spirituality, New Age beliefs, practice meditation, talk about the Christ consciousness, etc. Hmmm, sounds a lot like a form of religion to me.

Anyway, doing all this research on cults has got me thinking a lot about Impact. And thinking back on the trainings and my experiences. The first three trainings have less cult like processes than the higher levels of training. However, the first 3 trainings are there to open people up to the Impact way so that when they do move on to LMT they will believe everything Impact tells them. Cults tend to demand large amounts of money. LMT is about $3500 per person and they are required to staff and do all this work for Impact. Basically taking a lot of time away from family and there life.

Anyway, just wanted to share my thoughts for the day. :)

Jeez, where is everyone?

I had a thought after coming across a post in this forum. [forum.culteducation.com]

It's about the music they use at Impact. I know for a fact that they sell copyrighted music for $85 or so for the whole set. They call it "Impact Music." It's famous artists such as Celine Dion, Yanni, Enya, John Denver, Natasha Bedingfield, etc.

Has anyone looked into this further to see if something can be done?

Ali5683,
I'm here I look every day and have for quite some time .I disagree with your feelings that quest,summit and liftoff aren't so cultlike they are the mind control or thought reform that needs to be subtle so people aren't aware as to what is going on.All of the first three trainings use hypnotism,trancing,sleep deprivation,confusion,hunger,peer pressure,quilt and fear in order to move people through into the next level of training.I was at the all grad training at the U and saw alot of people that I miss.Although I thought the training was the same old stuff and they seemed to cut it short for some reason.They didn't even get through all the material in the pamphlet maybe because they noticed people were falling asleep.I am also having problems with sorting things out in my life.I just want you to know that someone is listening when you post on this thread and don't hold back and let it out.