Disgruntled wrote:
For me what really pushes my buttons on these people who choose to come to this website is how they attempt to minimize the destruction that has occured in many of our lives.

Especially by bragging, about how it worked for them and then spinning into what is the harm that was done question.

Talk about having a steam roller come rolling over me and telling me that my conflicts with Klemmer, and the many ohter conflicts of others with their own LGAT experience which are carbon copies of one another. As we have been discovering in our breaking the silence of what goes on in the seminars in each of these organizations.

This lack of compassion, and empathy for other peoples psychological health has to be the most appalling aspect for me.

Definitely shows me how a person can become so hard hearted to not see the harm in following the orders of Hitler as they attempt to irradicate the Jewish nation without challenging the rightness of it as soldiers.

I know this is an exteme example. But this lack of compassion, and empathy of some of these people and their posts are in my opinion not much different in severity.[/quote]

[b:f5c303af1b]I would have to disagree with your statement above. I dont think by people coming on here and talking about having a good experience means that they are being insensitive. That is not my intention and i have mentioned how my own experience was completely different from others on here. That is not being boastful just stating that not everyone has the same experience. I feel like you are being a little defensive and need to not be so angry. I am saddend that you had a bad experience and wish you the best but because we all have been to different LGAT's also means that our experiences were different. No LGAT is the same except the mechanics of it most likely. You cant get the same experience unless you have the same exact trainer at the same time. So there is no need to feel like a victim. We are all wonderful people in a great discussion.

fatherof3[/b:f5c303af1b]


"Disgruntled" is not the author of your quote. You can reply with the correct attribution by using the "quote" box at the upper right of the post. Then edit as you wish by snipping and using the brackets.

EZ[/color:f5c303af1b]

Fatherof3,

In many cases trainees attempt to say that because they have a good experience, then the training just "didn't work" for the other person. By using the term "didn't work" in that way many trainees are minimizing true damages that have been incurred by other former trainees. Its not the sharing of perceived positive experiences but rather the sharing of those experiences as a way to compensate for the people who have been completely screwed by the program.

The mechanics and intent of the Trainings did not change significantly during the entire time that I was involved and as far as I could tell there had not been any significant changes during the few years prior (Note: I do not consider the changing of a song of the introduction of a new stretch to be significant). Due to the pettiness, hypocrisy and backbiting that I observed from many of the trainers (and in particular Sally Berger) I find it unlikely that they will have improved their processes. I saw the people at the top at their worst, behind closed doors and out of earshot of the other trainees. They are completely dishonest individuals. I watched as they vilified many trainees unfairly (never me, since that's what some people will probably think) in order to make themselves pack leaders. I watched them use their "natural knowing" and attack trainees for doing things that the trainee never did. Every time a trainee or trainer would walk away from the program, the remaining trainers would go into immediate spin control mode and make that person out to be a physical incarnation of the Devil himself. If the people at the top are dishonest conmen (and women) then how can a program run by them [b:b477939a50]ever[/b:b477939a50] be a positive influence in the world?

Robert Paisola makes a career of being a conman. His business consists of taking advantage of the uneducated and extorting money from the more affluent through cyber-piracy. He is a despicable human being.

While people experience things differently, Impact is quick to point out and ridicule the people who are experiencing it the wrong way. The Impact Trainings teach accountability but their actions speak so loudly that no one can hear what their saying. As a result the trainees, as a group, end up becoming some of the least accountable people in the world.

During my involvement with the trainings, I never saw a single person receive any kind of longterm benefit. I saw many people pass through the first 3 levels, then have nothing change for them once they left (at least the ones that I kept in contact with) and I saw many others pass through the TIT trainings and claim to have huge successes in the training room (for the approval of the trainers I suppose) then have [b:b477939a50]HUGE[/b:b477939a50] breakdowns in real life. I guess its all about spin control but the people who were most involved with TIT were consistently the most judgmental and the most unstable but they were conditioned to not see their glaring hypocrisies and inadequacies. In response to your comment about listening to the experts, the TIT people were supposedly the standard that everyone else was being held to and they were nothing more than a pig with lipstick. After awhile the pig started to smell worse and got even more disgusting because it never saw that is was living, playing and rolling around in its own sh*t.

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formerimpactgrad
Fatherof3,

they were nothing more than a pig with lipstick. After awhile the pig started to smell worse and got even more disgusting because it never saw that is was living, playing and rolling around in its own sh*t.

Great thread formerimpactgrad. I agree with everything you mentioned. I do understand that they arent as wonderful as they protray themselves to be. I noticed some of the faults as i was going through the training. I like you quote about the pig with lipstick. I am in sales and i usually say [b:1a0f910c9e]You can put a dress on a pig but its still a pig. [/b:1a0f910c9e] I also understand about Robert. I read the links that were posted about him. I have always said that you can find something to learn out of everything in life. Even if it is bad or evil. For instance when its bad you appreciate what you have and thank God that you didnt have to become that person. Maybe im weird but i always learn something out of every situation i am in. I have never been quick to judge (at least in my mind my mouth might suggest otherwise some times :roll: ) and always sit back and absorbe everything that i come in contact with. I want to thank you again for your wonderful response to my posting.

fatherof3,

Thank you for your responses. While I may not always agree with you, or a number of other people for that matter, I do appreciate your sincerity. Welcome to the thread.

I understand that in the end it will be your own observations and experiences that will lead you to make whatever decisions you choose regarding the Impact Trainings. I think I've used the "pig with lipstick" analogy before as well as the "monkey in a tuxedo". I try not too repeat myself any more than necessary but it really seemed to fit with the TIT analogy. Having gone through those trainings myself I am sickened at the thought of anyone else going through and witnessing (or worse yet getting sucked into) the hypocrisy, denial and manipulation that exists among the trainers and trainees at that level.

I just ask that you withhold judgment on your experience at the Impact Trainings. My assertion has always been that what happens inside the training room only matters in so much as it effects a person's life outside of the training room. Most Quest, Summit and Lift-off trainees or recent graduates claim to experience miracles during or just after their Impact experience but it is in the weeks and months following their trainings that most come to realize that Impact has made very little difference in their lives. It is my belief that Impact schedules their trainings in such a way that they are able to keep up the necessary contact that the mental conditioning requires just long enough to suck a few thousand dollars out of every trainee. Since you are still wrapped up in their web you have not had the opportunity to see if Impact has really added value from any kind of long term perspective.

I guess I'm just asking you to "be open" to the possibility that while you may not have experienced the mental anguish that many others on this thread have experienced, you may find yourself realizing in several months that everything that happened behind those doors was completely pointless for you and very harmful for some of the other trainees that went through with you.

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fatherof3
I have always said that you can find something to learn out of everything in life. Even if it is bad or evil. ... Maybe im weird but i always learn something out of every situation i am in.

You're not weird in any sense for this, I learn what [i:094eb9e395]not[/i:094eb9e395] to do all the time from bad sources, examples and experiences. Impact is a very, very good example of this for me.

The road to wisdom?
- Well, it's plain
and simple to express:
Err
and err
and err again
but less
and less
and less.
~Piet Hein, "The Road to Wisdom," Grooks, 1966

There is only one thing more painful than learning from experience, and that is not learning from experience. ~Laurence J. Peter

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. ~Douglas Adams, Last Chance to See

I only hope that someone else can learn from my bad experience with Impact, but without all of the pain I had to go through. Unfortunately several of those I have shared it with say things like: "I don't want to hear anything negative. I only want to hear positive things because that's what makes me feel good inside."
I'm not talking about someone who occasionally filters out negative things because they're having a difficult time or for another legitimate reason... I'm talking about someone who wants to filter out or reject ALL the negative ALL of the time (this could be in life in general, or just censuring one subject like Impact). They are only shortchanging themselves, setting themselves up to be taken advantage of, and choosing ignorance. Thoughts on this?

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formerimpactgrad
fatherof3,

I guess I'm just asking you to "be open" to the possibility that while you may not have experienced the mental anguish that many others on this thread have experienced, you may find yourself realizing in several months that everything that happened behind those doors was completely pointless for you and very harmful for some of the other trainees that went through with you.

Thank you again for a great response. Actually i will tell you that right now i already know that it i was some what pointless for me. Most of everything I heard i have learned from books and experiences. I actually have seen the negaive results. People try to say it is because the person didnt stay but i feel differently. I pray that no one in my group will have to have any harm from any of this and i will do what i can to keep it from happening. I do understand that it is possible because i have read lots and i have learned more then i knew 1 week ago about all these LGAT's from all of you sharing. I hope that my knowledge now will assist in keeping some of my close friends from having bad experiences.
Thank you all.

fatherof3

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fatherof3
[b:eb9f6cecbf]I would have to disagree with your statement above. I dont think by people coming on here and talking about having a good experience means that they are being insensitive. That is not my intention and i have mentioned how my own experience was completely different from others on here. That is not being boastful just stating that not everyone has the same experience. I feel like you are being a little defensive and need to not be so angry. I am saddend that you had a bad experience and wish you the best but because we all have been to different LGAT's also means that our experiences were different. No LGAT is the same except the mechanics of it most likely. You cant get the same experience unless you have the same exact trainer at the same time. So there is no need to feel like a victim. We are all wonderful people in a great discussion.

fatherof3[/b:eb9f6cecbf]

First off, in case you did not correct it. I am the one you quoted.

Second, You obviously have not read in depth of this website.

Third, every point you have made in this post has been addressed already.

Keep digging, and reading. It has already been established as people are breaking the secrecy that these LGAT's are carbon copies of each other.

I beginning to wonder about your intention on this website. Please open your eyes, and get them of of yourself. Open them up to the destruction in others lives.

This is not the same as buying a candy bar and then find you don't like it and go back and buy another.

Peoples psyches are being messed with, and great harm is being done.

You say it did not happen to you and many others. Well, read, read, and read. It is happening to others, and it is happening with extreme similarity across the whole landscape of LGAT's.

Please for the love of God. Take your eyes off of yourself, and look at the destruction and harm being done.

Yes, I too see the good at a self focused level that has been good. But, I can't see it when I broaden the focus.

Thanks to my soon to be ex-wife. Which how she chose to apply her experience in the same LGAT as me with the contradictions that came from the Klemmer in what was produced in our marriage led to the destruction of it in her application. Versus the remarriage of us from my application of it.

You can read my posts, and get the bigger picture if you want.

I did a search online and this is the only place I could find that posted the truth about Impact. Thank You!!!

I feel terrible. I participated in Impact for several years at all levels and then realized it wasnt what it appeared to be.

I have led many others down this path.

My life is mostly great but I know others have been harmed by my angeling and staffing. Does anyone here know how I begin to talk to them and show them the truth?

I also need deprogamming in many areas. Any success stories on how I can do that too?

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Rswinters

First off, in case you did not correct it. I am the one you quoted.

Second, You obviously have not read in depth of this website.

Third, every point you have made in this post has been addressed already.

Keep digging, and reading. It has already been established as people are breaking the secrecy that these LGAT's are carbon copies of each other.

I beginning to wonder about your intention on this website. Please open your eyes, and get them of of yourself. Open them up to the destruction in others lives.

This is not the same as buying a candy bar and then find you don't like it and go back and buy another.

Peoples psyches are being messed with, and great harm is being done.

You say it did not happen to you and many others. Well, read, read, and read. It is happening to others, and it is happening with extreme similarity across the whole landscape of LGAT's.

Please for the love of God. Take your eyes off of yourself, and look at the destruction and harm being done.

First thank you RS for correcting me about the quote. Second I think the same goes for you because all you do is attack everyone that comes on here if they say they have had a good experience. I have opened my eyes thank you for being concerned. I am listening and taking in everyones comments. Plus if you read my last posts you would see that i said other wise. When i said a lot of people i have seen came out okay yes i was wrong atleast i admit it. Eximpact was kind enough to teach me (without being negative) before i say stuff like that i need to wait and see what really happens because even thought it doesnt happen right away several months afterwards is when most people see the affects. My eyes arent on myself and i find that offensive for you to judge me without knowing anything about me. I dont come in here and rip on you because of your beliefs. I never said it was as unimportant like buying a candy bar. I did say however that every LGAT is different from the trainers to the trainees and so forth. I am not saying that any of them are right I just said for someone to talk about a different class shouldnt be comparing it to Impact it isnt a fair comparison. The mechanics are the same yes but not the learning. You are correct i have not read in depth this website i didtn know that was a requirement to have a discussion. When i have the time i will. I am learning about the distruction and harm. I have only seen one person so far that it has damaged out of my group. I AM STILL LEARNING but when you become defensive like you are it makes me wonder what your intentions are. There are better ways of getting your point across then attacking others. I thought you might have learned that from your experiences in your trainings.

fatherof3