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maurice

To Rswinters: dont' apologize to Moneytrainer. No one should ever apologizes to those people. You said nothing but the truth.

cheers to that!

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Disgruntled
I think the only thing Robert didn't lie about was that Impact changes lives. He got that right.

Yes, quite. May I ask what you are disgruntled about with regards to Impact, or do you have a personal beef with Paisola?

Thanks formerimpactgrad, Rswinters and army-of-me for your comments and for sharing with me.

army-of-me summed up what happened in the first four hours of day one in Quest pretty well. It was sickening to sit through all of that, and as soon as Justin was inciting a mob to "take care of this" I had had enough. I kept looking down the row at my wife, who was sitting about 6 people away from me, and mouthing over and over "This is wrong, I'm going to leave." She kept shaking her head and saying "No, please stay." Several times after saying, "This is wrong, I'm leaving" I would add, "You know it's wrong, too. You know it's wrong." She would then nod her head in recognition. I really believed that when I got up to go, she would know how strongly I felt about it, and would come out too, but she didn't. I felt horrible that I didn't say or do enough to persuade her to leave with me. That was how I was feeling the night I was trying to get my two older kids off of the parking lot, but this time, I had everything to lose if they didn't come. I was incredibly desperate, as only a father can be when he sees his children in great danger, to get them off of their property and safe within my care. If Hans thinks that it's sick to care for one's own kids that much, then I feel sorry for his.

I've tried really hard to get my wife to explain to me what it was that they had her doing and saying in both Quest and Summit. Her continued, but unwarranted feeling is that because I'm angry with what Impact did, she thinks I'm angry with her - I cannot convince her otherwise. She has only spoken about a couple of things. My intent was to help her discover for herself how she might feel about what she said or did under other/different circumstances so that she could make a more objective opinion about Impact - to find out that some of what they made her say or do, she would find was completely out of character for her, that she wouldn't do or say things that they compelled her to do or say, and that she wouldn't sit through hours and hours of verbal, mental and emotional abuse for anyone else. It's extremely hard for her to admit that she might have been even remotely sucked in to it - brainwashed - for lack of a better term. She continues to think that I want to twist or manipulate every experience she had there into something "bad" - invalidating anything she got learned from her experience.

It think it would be helpful for me to read a comprehensive outline of what they do in each of the trainings, from someone who has done them, in order to understand what happened to my wife, and to be able to talk about some of these experiences with my wife without having to make her feel like she has to re-live the hurt that she now understands she caused me to feel, but at the time, was completely oblivious to, from trying to remember "everything (she) did."

P.S. formerimpactgrad - great symbolism with the all-seeing I.

While quite shocking, this "Quest mob" mentality is the ultimate goal of not only Impact, but the LGAT format in general. Group dynamics are a complicated form of classical conditioning, and over the last 40 years or so the techniques have become sophisticated. The trainers at Impact justify this unethical behavior and dishonorable treatment of people because, well, we are the enemy. In their eyes, [b:6907cb4a4b]ALL people[/b:6907cb4a4b] are base creatures with nothing better to do than ruin each others lives and propagate anger, hate and malice. So, in order to bring them around and make them loving, decent human beings and gods again, you have to be stripped of your humanity so that you can progress. I spent many, many, MANY hours in the back of the training room, and I remember seeing the trainers approve of shocking behavior among the trainees, but because it served their purpose they allowed it, occasionally saying something like, "It must be this way" or "Can you see how the world has poisoned that trainee? He was a cancer on this group..." etc.

They justify this hypocrisy because they believe they are at the top of the moral food chain and the trainers LITERALLY believe they [b:6907cb4a4b]are gods[/b:6907cb4a4b] that are doing God's work. They rationalize horrible injustice in the name of their holy war against the "ego mind" and they will tell you in Quest that war "doesn't work" but in TIT you would have attained enough enlightenment to learn that Impact is literally at war. Behind closed doors, the trainers speak a very different language than what you hear inside the training room. There is an obstinate, absolute intolerance for anything that is not "of the light". That means, anyone who has not taken the trainings people. 99.99...% of human kind. They profess unconditional love for all humanity, but only appear to show it to the "good trainees", and even then it is a foul, perverted thing. Is there another definition for "unconditional" I am not aware of? Because Impact does not know the meaning of the word (plus I think the idea of "unconditional love" is a logical paradox).

I would personally and profoundly like to welcome all of the recently new Impact antagonists to the board, I crave to hear your experiences, opinions and emotions concerning this nonsensical LGAT gibberish.

P.S. damagedbyassociation, although I give much credit to formerimpactgrad for his contributions, that picture was not one of them :P :D

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exImpact
Follow this link if you would like to see what I did last night. (I inverted the colors to avoid infringing on copyright) :D

[img341.imageshack.us]

Can you modify the image to have LGAT versus I being only in the cross hiars in this image?

In my case it would have a K in the cross hairs.

But, as I have discovered its not just Klemmer, or Impact that needs to be in our cross hairs. It is all LGAT's.

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Rswinters

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exImpact
Follow this link if you would like to see what I did last night. (I inverted the colors to avoid infringing on copyright) :D

[img341.imageshack.us]

Can you modify the image to have LGAT versus I being only in the cross hiars in this image?

In my case it would have a K in the cross hairs.

But, as I have discovered its not just Klemmer, or Impact that needs to be in our cross hairs. It is all LGAT's.

Sorry, I am not sure what you mean about cross-hairs, the image is taken from the Lord of the Rings movies. I put the Impact logo "I" where the all-seeing "Eye of Sauron" is supposed to be. Not sure if the metaphor translates too well for another LGAT :D

Out of curiosity? Is it just me, or are many of you who have been deeply harmed by impact, or any other LGAT company finding these resent posts since yesterday on this thread stirring up the pain of your own pain with being involved in an LGAT company.

I may be more sensitive to this due to the fact of what I am dealing with in professional counseling. But, I have been experiencing alot of anger over the arrogance, and the relational destruction that has been created from these LGAT's in these recent posts that have been shared.

I am considering taking a break from this website not because I am in disagreement with what is being shared. It is however touching on the severe emotional wounds from my very recent enmeshed involvement with Klemmer, and my being in the process of a divorce that is a result of Klemmer on my remarriage. I am also finally dealing honestly with some terrible abuse that I endured growing up in my childhood with my mother.

I will not go into depth on the details. Because I do not want to be a victim in my life to this stuff. I want to be responding to life, and not reacting as I have done my whole life.

I was ripe for the picking by Klemmer & Associates as they played upon what was not working in my life by dangling a golden carrot in front of me in there promises.

Only problem is that golden carrot keeps staying out of reach with Klemmers response of keep reaching, keep reaching.

Well, its time to stop reaching and accept my limits. I am not a god, nor do I want to be one. Neither is anyone else for that matter.

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exImpact

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Rswinters

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exImpact
Follow this link if you would like to see what I did last night. (I inverted the colors to avoid infringing on copyright) :D

[img341.imageshack.us]

Can you modify the image to have LGAT versus I being only in the cross hiars in this image?

In my case it would have a K in the cross hairs.

But, as I have discovered its not just Klemmer, or Impact that needs to be in our cross hairs. It is all LGAT's.

Sorry, I am not sure what you mean about cross-hairs, the image is taken from the Lord of the Rings movies. I put the Impact logo "I" where the all-seeing "Eye of Sauron" is supposed to be. Not sure if the metaphor translates too well for another LGAT :D

I did not make the connection. Thanks now I do.
By the way, LGAT does fit. Your focus has been to expose Impact, and if you have been reading some of the recent posts. There has been a huge discovering by some over how these various LGAT's operate with carbon copy formats of seminars.

It's like you can change the company name in these posts, and read the various techniques, and methods used by companies as interchangeable in all LGAT's.

Yes, I know one company paints it red, and another yellow. The "it" is still the same thing though. This aspect of these LGAT's being basically carbon copies of each other has been very healing for me in my walking away from Klemmer in my life.

I am not insane, and Klemmer is insane. Ths website confirms this in spades.

Thanks. I really appreciate you all for being so bold and sharing your experiences here.

exImpact wrote:

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In their eyes, ALL people are base creatures with nothing better to do than ruin each others lives and propagate anger, hate and malice. So, in order to bring them around and make them loving, decent human beings and gods again, you have to be stripped of your humanity so that you can progress.

This is exactly the attitude of the trainers on inquest and I think it is the point of things like the lifeboat process, where people are pushed into situations where they behave badly then got told they are disgusting people, so that they need quest / impact whatever to make them good and decent again. Aside from the arrogance and immorality of this attitude, it doesn't work. The people who were bitchy or bastards on my inquest were just as bitchy / bastardy afterwards as before - only afterwards they had new quest tools to use.


Around quest they say we are all just full of sh*t, its human nature, and the only way out of it is to clear, clear, clear and the only way to do that is by attending and assisting on the trainings.
I don't know if the quest people think they're god but they definitely act as if they have the moral authority of gods and are cleaner better people than the general population.

Maurice wrote:

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I've just read Saneagain's post about the feedback thing. It was the most disgusting thing i have ever heard of... I don't remember anything that horrible in landmark (who knows? maybe in the other courses i didn't go on to sign up to there is something like that).

Thanks for this and for in the process proving that you don't have to do inquest or impact to be a decent compassionate human being.

I think there is a split in the lgat world, between the organisations that are in it purely for the money (I'm guessing Landmark fits there) and those who are "true believers". Impact it seems are true believers in their own godliness. Quest south africa is a combination; the basic course is the money spinner and the "hook" run by Buster and inquest, the advanced course, is run by his wife Wendy, who seems to be a true believer, on a crusade to save the world with very extremist ideas about how to do that.

Thanks exImpact, that was a very clarifying and insightful post.

Sorry about the mistake exImpact. That's two personality mistakes I've made, and I just joined. Thanks for the image.

Also, Rswinters, I think I can relate to some of your troubles. Those are what brought me here to this forum, and I've found some relief in being able to read other's experience and know that I'm not alone in my feelings, thoughts and anger toward an LGAT.

Take Care