PS I don't exclude myself from the bitchy / bastardy traits. Its part of the colour of human life - imagine Shakespeare if everyone was a clear light-filled jargon-sprouting holier-than-thou forever abundant prat! How boring life would be... but there's a huge difference between grandiose power-hungry trainers deliberatley engineering bad behaviour in others in order to control them, and the day-to-day conflict and quabbles of normal humans going about their lives best they know how.

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SaneAgain
I think there is a split in the lgat world, between the organisations that are in it purely for the money (I'm guessing Landmark fits there) and those who are "true believers".

There is no split there. It is all crap, and the results show it loud and clear.

Like it has been said countless times, and has been pointed out very clearly many times on this websites.

LGAT's philosophy/business model, mindse or whatever way you want to say it is the problem.

It doesn't work, and you can't tweek it to make it work. The only way to make it work is for LGAT's not to exist since they are operating within the psyche realm in peoples lives in these seminars.

The only safe place to do this type of work is within the confines of a safe professional psychological realm with a trained, and licensed professional who is held legally liable for malpractice in the mental health realm.

True believers are just as destructive as the ones in it just for the money.

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Rswinters

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SaneAgain
I think there is a split in the lgat world, between the organisations that are in it purely for the money (I'm guessing Landmark fits there) and those who are "true believers".

There is no split there. It is all crap, and the results show it loud and clear.

Like it has been said countless times, and has been pointed out very clearly many times on this websites.

LGAT's philosophy/business model, mindse or whatever way you want to say it is the problem.

It doesn't work, and you can't tweek it to make it work. The only way to make it work is for LGAT's not to exist since they are operating within the psyche realm in peoples lives in these seminars.

The only safe place to do this type of work is within the confines of a safe professional psychological realm with a trained, and licensed professional who is held legally liable for malpractice in the mental health realm.

True believers are just as destructive as the ones in it just for the money.

In my opinion anyone who would disagree with this aspect have not experienced the emotional trauma, and abuse as those who go to these seminars looking for a quick fix, and short cut to finding emotional peace in life from the emotional pain arising from undealt with deep emotional wounds by wanting to make the source of the pain be others. Versus looking at the source being within themselves, and how they are unhealthy emotionally and attaching themselves to extremely unhealthy people such as these LGAT's in the hope of bring resolution to the pain.

Not all people fall into this catagory. But many do who attend these seminars. I am one of them, as I went to an LGAT (Klemmer & Associates) seeking the answers that are only found within the professional Psychological arena in our world.

LGAT seminars are false prophets declaring they have the answers for these psychological problems that exist in our society.

Oh, I am sorry. LGAT's do not deal with psychological problems. RRRRIIIIGGGGGHHHHHTTTT.

That is what they say, and then turn right around and operate in this realm only after having you sign a release where they will not be held liable for damage in this realm.

LGAT's refusal to acknowledge they work within the pyschological realm in peoples life is just their crap philosophy at play in changing the meaning on things to work for them in being deceptive in this matter.

LGAT's operate 100 percent within the pschological realm in participants lives. That is a fact, not an opinion.

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Rswinters

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exImpact

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Rswinters

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exImpact
Follow this link if you would like to see what I did last night. (I inverted the colors to avoid infringing on copyright) :D

[img341.imageshack.us]

Can you modify the image to have LGAT versus I being only in the cross hiars in this image?

In my case it would have a K in the cross hairs.

But, as I have discovered its not just Klemmer, or Impact that needs to be in our cross hairs. It is all LGAT's.

Sorry, I am not sure what you mean about cross-hairs, the image is taken from the Lord of the Rings movies. I put the Impact logo "I" where the all-seeing "Eye of Sauron" is supposed to be. Not sure if the metaphor translates too well for another LGAT :D

I did not make the connection. Thanks now I do.
By the way, LGAT does fit. Your focus has been to expose Impact, and if you have been reading some of the recent posts. There has been a huge discovering by some over how these various LGAT's operate with carbon copy formats of seminars.

Rswinters,
I think the picture is simply intended to be a clever, satirical [i:9f96913d6b]joke[/i:9f96913d6b], thats all. I don't think that when exImpact said other LGAT's wouldn't work for the picture, that he was saying Impact isn't like other LGAT's. Impact is the only one who uses a big letter "I" for their logo, and he replaced the [i:9f96913d6b]eye[/i:9f96913d6b] in the original picture. :wink:

thanks for the good laugh ex :lol:

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damagedbyassociation
Sorry about the mistake exImpact. That's two personality mistakes I've made, and I just joined. Thanks for the image.

Also, Rswinters, I think I can relate to some of your troubles. Those are what brought me here to this forum, and I've found some relief in being able to read other's experience and know that I'm not alone in my feelings, thoughts and anger toward an LGAT.

Take Care

Personality mistakes? Bah! No need to scrutinize yourself to such a degree here. Honestly, I am feeling no small amount of levity due to the long overdue presence of [i:d13ff861ce]valuable and relevant[/i:d13ff861ce] contributions from more than just a few of us that have been posting from the "inside Impact" perspective. I'm just glad you are here!

In a previous post on the LDS (Mormon) perspective on Self-Awareness Groups (aka Impact), I realized that I neglected to include another text addressing the concern. Again, my intention is not to alienate anyone, I just think that it includes an honest look at what LGAT's are really about, regardless of religious affiliation. Also, it is specifically written for a large demographic group of Impact's clientele.


LDS VIEW ON SELF AWARENESS GROUPS (aka Impact Trainings):
[/size:eee2e76549]
“Policies and Announcements,” Ensign, Mar. 1994, 80

The following is from the Church Bulletin, 1993-2:

Caution Concerning Self-Awareness Groups

There is increasing concern regarding Church members’ involvement in groups that purport to increase self-awareness, raise self-esteem, and enhance individual agency. Many of these groups advocate concepts and use methods that can be harmful. Some falsely claim Church endorsement, actively recruit Church members, charge exorbitant fees, and encourage long-term commitments. Some intermingle worldly concepts with gospel principles in ways that can undermine spirituality and faith. Although participants may experience temporary emotional relief or exhilaration, old problems often return, leading to added disappointment and despair.

Church leaders and members should not become involved in self-awareness groups or any other groups that imitate sacred rites or ceremonies. Similarly, members should avoid groups that meet late into the night or encourage open confession or disclosure of personal information normally discussed only in confidential settings.

Church leaders are not to pay for, encourage participation in, or promote such groups or practices. Also, Church facilities are not to be used for these types of activities. Local leaders should counsel those desiring self-improvement to anchor themselves in gospel principles and to adopt wholesome practices that strengthen one’s abilities to cope with challenges. Members are invited to consult with their bishops or stake presidents when seeking appropriate sources of counseling.

Here's the link to this information: (scroll down to announcements and policies)

[tinyurl.com]


Please use Tinyurl when you post a link this long.

EZ[/color:eee2e76549]

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exImpact
Disgruntled wrote:
I think the only thing Robert didn't lie about was that Impact changes lives. He got that right.


Yes, quite. May I ask what you are disgruntled about with regards to Impact, or do you have a personal beef with Paisola?

Does anyone else think that Disgruntled may be disgruntled because he/she keeps getting booted from the board for setting up different accounts in an attempt to manipulate the conversation to topics outside of the purpose of the thread?

If it is the same person, I guess I'll just throw in my two cents and say that while he/she has not said anything to warrant removal recently, it is the dishonesty and manipulation associated with his/her methods that continuously gets him/her booted.

In response to the post as to whether or not Hans Berger went through Lifespring, I wanted to respond to tell you that a friend of mine went through Lifespring the same time Hans was there. She told me that at every break, he went out of the training room to furiously write down the processes. It was shortly after they finished Lifespring that Hans began Impact. When my friend told me about her experience, Lifespring had 3 Groups like that of Quest, Summit and Lift Off. She did not learn anything about the processes that the TIT trainings had in them. I am assuming then, that Hans created the upper trainings of Impact unless someone else here has better information than that.

damagedbyassociation....I was sickened and appalled to read your experience you had with Quest. I could hardly believe what happened to you and your children and that they would be so bold as to take a stance with you regarding your wife and children. It seems to me that those at Impact are starting to feel a bit threatened...as they were willing to come out of the center and try to keep you from YOUR children. It seems to me that what they did there was illegal in every sense of the word. Your children are YOUR children. That would have been devastating to any child. I am truly sickened by what you experienced. I am really sorry.

In my Summit group, one of the women had lost a son to suicide. We had several men jump up to her defense and scream at the trainers and then leave the room. The words said to her were cruel, mean and uncalled for. I am sickened to think that I stayed and continued to participate. It is no wonder to me that we all became impact zombies. I lost my ability to think for myself. Looking back, each participant was a carrot being dangled for the purpose of teaching the rest. When a trainer saw an opportunity to “hang” someone, they went for the juggler vein..and proceeded to destroy the human psyche in not only the trainee but everyone who would dare to speak out.

I had a very different experience with the Lifeboat experience. Several years before I attended Impact, I had gone through a lot of abuse in my marriage, had gone through a divorce and out of exhaustion and the suffering of abuse, had landed in a psychiatric hospital. When I went to Impact, I was ripe for the mind numbing experience I had there. Somehow, I managed to stop myself after Quest, Summit, Lift-off, and Inner Woman I. I posted earlier how I didn’t feel the need to continue with new “information.” When I experienced Lifeboat, I took the experience to the limit. I begged to live. I begged to live for my children. I became VERY selfish and it was mortifying to choose my life over others who had small children. It became real to me. I received 7 sticks and was one of the 4 to be saved. It was incredibly bittersweet. I numbed out and tried to stay in my joy. I felt like I had been on the Titanic and didn’t care about anyone or anything but me. The whole thing made me sick. What makes me sicker now, is the realization that I wanted the trainers to pat me on the back....give me that “unconditional love.” I didn’t get it. I was left with my sticks...and had to live with the fact that I didn’t care about anyone but me. I have never been that kind of person. It is really hard for me not to beat myself up for allowing myself to continue with the trainings. ICK...it really does make me sick.

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formerimpactgrad

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exImpact
Disgruntled wrote:
I think the only thing Robert didn't lie about was that Impact changes lives. He got that right.


Yes, quite. May I ask what you are disgruntled about with regards to Impact, or do you have a personal beef with Paisola?

Does anyone else think that Disgruntled may be disgruntled because he/she keeps getting booted from the board for setting up different accounts in an attempt to manipulate the conversation to topics outside of the purpose of the thread?

If it is the same person, I guess I'll just throw in my two cents and say that while he/she has not said anything to warrant removal recently, it is the dishonesty and manipulation associated with his/her methods that continuously gets him/her booted.

For me what really pushes my buttons on these people who choose to come to this website is how they attempt to minimize the destruction that has occured in many of our lives.

Especially by bragging, about how it worked for them and then spinning into what is the harm that was done question.

Talk about having a steam roller come rolling over me and telling me that my conflicts with Klemmer, and the many ohter conflicts of others with their own LGAT experience which are carbon copies of one another. As we have been discovering in our breaking the silence of what goes on in the seminars in each of these organizations.

This lack of compassion, and empathy for other peoples psychological health has to be the most appalling aspect for me.

Definitely shows me how a person can become so hard hearted to not see the harm in following the orders of Hitler as they attempt to irradicate the Jewish nation without challenging the rightness of it as soldiers.

I know this is an exteme example. But this lack of compassion, and empathy of some of these people and their posts are in my opinion not much different in severity.

Another truth that robert talked about is that we all experience things differently. It is just like the scriptures. We all get different things out of it when we read them. That is why there is so many different versions of the Bible and so many different churches. I believe that is why i still feel like i had a good experience and i am not brainwashed. There was a lot of things that i enjoyed.

Yes Quest is mostly about degrading and putting everyone down but Summit and Lift off are about building you back up. It is just like boot camp. I am sure there are some people that come out of boot camp or military that have problems also. I think even thought what i read about Robert he had some valid points that maybe he was not meaning what he said it was still a decent point of view.

I am in a business that if my customers dont do it the way I tell them they dont have much of a chance to succeed. I feel that it is the same with anything. If you dont listen to the experts then you have a easier chance of not making it or having problems. I am not saying that is the way it is with everyone because there are some that are exceptions.

I would like to know when most of you went through the Impact training if you are willing to share because I also know that with time companies can improve and they most likely dont stay the same. I wonder how much difference there is between 5 years it would be interesting to see if there is any change.

I am working on getting my 10 comments so bare with me lol

I would like to hear others comments :D