This site had a section for people who loved LEC, a section for people who felt neutral and a section for people who reported problems.
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www.sciquill.com]
(quote)Visitor Feedback
Updated 17 March 2003
This is a complete record of comments, stories, and criticisms submitted by readers (identified by first name only—no email addresses will be posted). I have left them unedited except for bleeping out the more colorful language. I've also added my responses, which vary in tone depending on my mood. Due to high volume, we are not accepting new feedback at this time. Thanks to all those who contributed!
Your feedback comes in three flavors:
I Hate Landmark (133)| I Love Landmark (45) | I'm Just Weird (or indifferent) (26)
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"I Hate Landmark!"
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Date: 17 March 2003
Subject: Education?
From: Chris
Landmark Education? Unfortunately, I took two courses before finding your info on the internet. Its not that it is all bad, but considering that the methods are really like practicing psychology without a license it should be considered fraud. Yes, some get something out of it. The ones I worry about are the ones that are allowed to take it that have severe emotional problems. That is irresponsible. Yes, they are not completely open. Everthing I have read complaining about it is true. The worst parts are irresponsibility about disturbed people, heavy proselytizing, and attempts at mind control. They prey on the weak that need real healing, just like Scientology. Once I read about the history of Werner Erhard I knew immediately he was a phony used car salesman who saw an easy scam.
NoLandmark replies: You don't even need severe emotional problems to get hurt by Landmark; in fact you need a strong and healthy emotional makeup just to defend against their methods.
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Date: 17 March 2003
Subject: landmark
From: kiompie
First of all thank you for posting your site on the web, it is great to have my suspicions confirmed.
Today, I had my own Landmark experience here in Belgium. We were asked by a friend to go to one of the introductory meetings, he wanted to know our opinion about the guy who was presiding over the meeting. So we went there, the three of us, to see what all the fuss was about.
There were actually two Landmark guys, a younger one who did the presentation and an older guy who seemed to be some kind of supervisor. We were the only guests.
First, we had to write down our names and phone numbers on a piece of paper, so they could contact us later in the week for an "evaluation" of the evening. Next we were given a brochure and a few sheets of paper for the "exercises". The younger guy then started to give his presentation in order to show us how Landmark would make our lives better. We had to take one sheet of paper and divide it into two columns, the right one for listing things in our lives that "worked" and the left one for things that "did not work". At this point I interrupted the speaker and asked him why I should provide this very personal information to somebody I did not know, why he thought he could help me with my problems and what kind of an organisation I was dealing with. He then started babbling about how my past was my future and how they would turn that around by removing the past and opening me up to the future. I was told to just do the exercise and see how it worked. When my friends voiced similar concerns, the older guy stepped in to convince us the exercise would reveal all the benefits.
So, we dutifully wrote down a few things that we thought were "not working" and were invited to talk about them. The younger guy helped us out by telling a sob story about how he used to have a problem with his little brother - too boring and predictable to repeat here . The three of us started to comment on the definition of the phrase "not working", giving examples of times when "not-working" things were actually a positive phase people had to go through, etcetera. In short, we were sabotaging their strategy with all kinds of philosophy. Again, the older guy stepped in to lead us back on the right track. We then went on to discuss the things that were "working" in our lives. All the time, the speaker was pressing us to give a clear example and not to get side-tracked. It was all very childish, something you would do to fourth-graders, and we were constantly being told how nice and great it was that we were "sharing". I cannot remember how many times the younger guy thanked us for what we said, but it was getting pretty irritating and way too obvious.
Anyway, after that we had the "you do not know what you do not know" rubbish, including a pie chart showing all the knowledge in the world and how little we knew. At the end of the presentation we were told how great Landmark was, how many people were already being helped all over the world and how we had to sign up. They were really putting pressure on us to commit. We all gave different arguments about why we did not want to commit and had to explain, over and over again, why not. That is their trick. As soon as you start, politely, explaining why you do not feel the Forum could be beneficial to you they start to question/undermine your motives and your beliefs. All very friendly and nicely, but in a way very offensive.
When I said I already had some good friends who were helping me with my issues - and that I had already come a long way in solving them - the older guy started to harass me with this "that is your story" talk. Like I was fooling myself and my friends did not know what they were doing!
It was the typical "you do not believe because you do not want to believe" routine. He insinuated that I refused to face my issues, that I was stubborn and self-delusional. I then told him I could see right through their strategies and that they should come up with something better in order to convince me, but to no avail. He went on ad nauseam.
In the end I pocketed the piece of paper with my name and telephone number - to avoid future harassment - and left with my friends, who also thought the whole thing was utterly ridiculous.
I now know two things. Firstly: Landmark preys on vulnerable people. And if you do not think you are vulnerable, they will try and convince you that you are and that you need their help. You definitely do not!! A lot of the stuff they say makes sense, but there is nothing new. There are many other - free - places you can go to for information and help. Secondly, the friend who arranged this meeting for us is going to be sorry he did.
NoLandmark replies: Thanks for the insights. Landmark hates those like you who would dare stand up for yourself.
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Date: 14 March 2003
Subject: Your Forum
From: Jessica
Man, you've got those suckers NAILED. Well done. I have a Bachelors' Degree in Anthropology, and exposing the intentions of an organization such as Landmark Education is the ultimate philanthropic effort for today's society in my experience.
My best friend was recently approached by a "graduate" member of Landmark, and she being soft-spoken and not altogether strong willed allowed herself to be continually coerced by a new "friend" and a brigade of callers to put down a deposit on a Landmark Education seminar scheduled to take place in her area. She's got a good head on her shoulders, but has a very difficult time saying "No" to anyone, especially strangers. I think this stems from her need for acceptance from the general public, and this is the exact kind of mindset most malleable to a manipulative organization such as Landmark. Coincidentally (and fortunately) her mother attended an EST seminar many years ago, and my friend's father immediately made the connection when she went to him with her concerns regarding the situation she is in now. Apparently her mother had to go through considerable deprogramming to unlearn all the poisonous propaganda fed to her by the members of EST, and thanks to my friend's trust and respect in her father she decided to put a stop to her affiliation with her Landmark "friend" and fend off future phone calls from their people.
Not everyone has people they can truly trust or rely on, and according to statistics there are enough people hurting and confused to keep the cash flowing through Landmark Education's veins. I applaud your efforts to prevent individuals from getting sucked into a downward-spiraling case of dependency to which there is no physical end.
Please let me know if I can do anything to help.
NoLandmark replies: Glad your friend got out. It's funny that Landmarkians also consider themselves philanthropists...and they really believe it.
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Date: 13 March 2003
Subject: pre-landmark issue
From: Kam
A good friend of mine paid for me to do the forum. I absolutely do not want to do it, but be claims "My word is my word" and once Im a Landmarkian i will realize that when I say Yes it means Yes. As well, the $400 bucks is already paid for.
I know that they don't brainwash per-se, but what can I do to safeguard myself?
NoLandmark replies: Don't let them convince you that everything you've learned in life thus far are "stories" that should be ignored in favor of Landmark's philosophy. And always ask yourself whether their technology is designed to help you or to get your money.
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Date: 13 March 2003
Subject: Landmark Forum and the Red Fags, my play
From: Stephen
Hi, just wanted to thank you for the link from your site to my play "Land Mark Forum and the Red Flags". I originally had the short play on my playwrighting site: stephenpeace.homestead.com, and it didn't get that many visits. But the visits it did get were from "Formicans", usually, the top tiered Formicans who stood to lose money if their ideology and brainwashing was questioned. One guy was really nasty and we traded e-mails for a few times. He was obnoxious and called me a "whiney assed piece of BLEEP!" for having written my play. I think my parting shot was that I was going to set up a site that made finding my play easier. You have helped me in my quest. It is interesting how many hits I have had since this link was established. I hope he was bing 'authentic", and can see that his "rackets" are now being exposed. I now have hits on the play from all over the world, and most of them are off of the link at your site. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK. --An interesting side lite to the play and the woman who invited me to the meeting is she recetly said that it was a "waste of time and she wished she had the thousands of dollars she spent on it back".
NoLandmark replies: I am a fan of theater.
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Date: 12 March 2003
Subject: landmark
From: Becky
Take it from a fifty year old, well educated, open minded woman: DON'T GET INVOLVED WITH LANDMARK EDUCATION. AT BEST YOU WILL SPEND MANY MISERABLE HOURS IN THEIR UNPLEASANT COMPANY AND CUT YOUR LOSSES.
If you think you would enjoy making reservations at an exclusive, expensive restaurant and then sitting down to be served cockroaches sauteed in cat urine, while the waiter smiles & convinces you it is Strawberries Jubilee, then go ahead and PAY LANDMARK YOUR $400 PLUS and bon appetit!
I participated in one of LANDMARK'S DISGUSTING WEEKENDS and the result so far has been fPOST TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER.
THESE PEOPLE ARE CROOKS AND THEY SHOULD BE PUT OUT OF BUSINESS FOR PERSONAL HARM AND DECEPTIVE TRADE PRACTICES! SPEND YOUR MONEY ON SOMETHING FUN AND BENEFICIAL - FLY TO CANCUN & DRINK PINA COLADAS IN THE SUN -- IT WILL COST ABOUT THE SAME AND BELIEVE ME YOU WILL GET A LOT MORE OUT OF IT!
NoLandmark replies: But then where will I get my cockroaches in cat urine fix? Yum!
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Date: 5 March 2003
Subject: london
From: Colin
Thanks for a great site. No doubt Landmarkians are directed here to guage tactics of defence etc.
I'm in London and also concerned about a friend who has been drummed into it. Luckily I had had a "fruitcake" experience by a cult in the States many years ago so as soon as I met people from the Forum huge great alarm bells started ringing!
Like Joe from London I am interested in meeting non-Landmark people who want to combat this disease.
Any suggestions?
NoLandmark replies: I'd be thrilled if Landmark were actually directing participants to this site, but I think instead participants are told you can't get any information about Landmark on the web. I have thought about setting up a listserve for us nolandmarkians. You can set one up for free with Yahoo Groups.
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Date: 4 March 2003
Subject: Landmark experience
From: Josh
I met a beautiful woman at a party a few weeks ago and we exchanged phone #s. Which was great because I have no friends in this part of the country and am lonely. We hung out a few times, including a big party at her house. She is very outgoing, I'm introverted. Then she told me about landmark forum. I realized that a lot of the gibberish philosophy she had shared with me was regurgitated Landmark ideas. I agreed to go to an into lecture last night. I read the Nolandmark forum to prepare myself.
The insight exercise we did at the meeting was harmless enough and somewhat insightful. But the emphasis on recruitment left me with a bad feeling in my gut. At the beginning of the meeting they told us to turn off the little voice in our heads. I turned to my friend and said that I call that voice, "thinking." At the end of the meeting there was a really heavy duty segment about living in the now and not the future. And taking the class now living more fully instead of putting off our future.... It was all couched in very fluffy doubletalk. People had shared the whole evening and everyone seemed sincere, though shameless about sharing all their emotions (is anyone modest anymore?) Some people said they, "got this," or "got that." I recognized that was Landmark language they had been hypnotized with.
I still haven't eliminated the possibility of taking this class sometime. Though I don't cotten to warming a chair for 16 hours a day and sleep deprivation. My friend really tried to get me to sign up for a class immediately. I'm seriously wondering if this person likes me for who I am or only for my potential that Landmark can supposedly bring out in me. Time will tell. It turns out she has been an assistant at 10 of these trainings.
I'm taking my phone off the hook for a few days to avoid any phone calls from her or Landmark about these programs. She tends to ramble on for an hour at a time anyways.
If this is so fufilling why can't these people be happy instead of trying to recruit others into their group? If one really can see the value intrinsic in people, then one should see that people are already complete and can find their own path and own happiness.
What a turnoff.
NoLandmark replies: One must remember that the philosophy isn't designed to make people happy; it is designed to retain and acquire paying members. To reach this goal, it cleverly ties member happiness to the very acts of volunteering and recruiting. That is why your friend cannot accept you as you are--if she did it wouldn't help fill Landmark's coffers now would it?
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