Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
Daughter of Dorcas
()
Date: January 26, 2011 04:14AM
Many of us saw what you call "a large dragon" some of us have referred to it as the elephant in the front row. It was a Jezebel spirit. I would suggest you do a little light reading. It is still there.
D of D
D of D
Quote
jesuschristismydelight
This my opionion about the Stewardship Campaign:
I only gave a small donation once because I never felt right about the whole thing.
Too many pastors without wisdom are spedning their time building their own material brick and stone temples and, in the process, wounding and scattering sheep and neglecting the true temple, the one not made with human hands. The stupid race to builld costly, oversized churches, towers, Christian playgrounds, and recreation centers is the grief of God. All those hours spent poring over plans, on-site, raising money, and running about should have been spent in prayer and the study of God's word. Does God get the glory when a shepard has to fleece the sheep to build his dream project, then continue to fleece them to keep it afloat. The shepard was all wrapped up in their own dream and neglected the sheep. This a serious thing when it has not been mandated by God.
The very holiness of God is affronted by a shepard who use God's Word as a club to extract money. There is a big difference between a shelter and a showplace. Some want a large showplace because competion comes into play and ego demands a monument to self-achievement, something that makes a statement to others.
True men of God build as a last resort. I felt lost when we left the sanctuary and relocated to the middle school on Sundays. It was too large and did not feel homey like the sanctuary. Others felt the same way as I did. Plus all the time and effort volunteers spent on the set-up and tear down in lieu of time with their families.
Do any of you that donated to the Campaign feel this way? And yes, I do agree that an audit is appropriate even though I was not a campaign participant.
What I meant about the enemy within our walls was I saw a large dragon within the sanctuary tearing it apart and reeking havoc within some years ago. There were other warnings prior to that in visions and dreams I received which I do not want to go into.
The open meeting with the members of the church in regard to the accusations made about Pastor Jackie was sickening. That was sooooooooooo wrong.
And yes I am grounded in the word of God. I have not felt a release from the Lord to leave yet. If the Lord tells me to leave I will and I will go to the church he leads me to. God Bless.
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
jesuschristismydelight
()
Date: January 27, 2011 04:28AM
Quote
buddyQuote
jesuschristismydelight
This my opionion about the Stewardship Campaign:
I only gave a small donation once because I never felt right about the whole thing.
Too many pastors without wisdom are spedning their time building their own material brick and stone temples and, in the process, wounding and scattering sheep and neglecting the true temple, the one not made with human hands. The stupid race to builld costly, oversized churches, towers, Christian playgrounds, and recreation centers is the grief of God. All those hours spent poring over plans, on-site, raising money, and running about should have been spent in prayer and the study of God's word. Does God get the glory when a shepard has to fleece the sheep to build his dream project, then continue to fleece them to keep it afloat. The shepard was all wrapped up in their own dream and neglected the sheep. This a serious thing when it has not been mandated by God.
The very holiness of God is affronted by a shepard who use God's Word as a club to extract money. There is a big difference between a shelter and a showplace. Some want a large showplace because competion comes into play and ego demands a monument to self-achievement, something that makes a statement to others.
True men of God build as a last resort. I felt lost when we left the sanctuary and relocated to the middle school on Sundays. It was too large and did not feel homey like the sanctuary. Others felt the same way as I did. Plus all the time and effort volunteers spent on the set-up and tear down in lieu of time with their families.
Do any of you that donated to the Campaign feel this way? And yes, I do agree that an audit is appropriate even though I was not a campaign participant.
What I meant about the enemy within our walls was I saw a large dragon within the sanctuary tearing it apart and reeking havoc within some years ago. There were other warnings prior to that in visions and dreams I received which I do not want to go into.
The open meeting with the members of the church in regard to the accusations made about Pastor Jackie was sickening. That was sooooooooooo wrong.
And yes I am grounded in the word of God. I have not felt a release from the Lord to leave yet. If the Lord tells me to leave I will and I will go to the church he leads me to. God Bless.
(Thank You for your reply and being honest. It takes courage to come out and share your story. Feel free to share more. I am very interested in hearing your insights. I need help with understanding how Jeff Barnes has changed and what false doctrine he has kicked out of the church.
Is he still promoting the director of Marketplace Ministry. How will Jeff continue when some of the people who attend still imbrace some of the false doctrines. In your opinion do you feel like there is still alot of people who still attend who still feel Mike is the victim and that still feel like he did no wrong. Do you feel like this change in new direction would have taken place if Jeff would not of recieved the Letter from the other churches. How do you feel about Jeff and his support of Mike and his attack on people who tried to confront Mike about all the false doctrines. Do feel Jeff lacks discernment when in comes to false doctrine. Do you know what doctrines Jeff feels were wrong. How do you feel about the the money given to Mike when he left Marysville. Did you feel like it was difficult to stay when Mike kept bringing in false teachers like Casey Treat,Dr. Increase and others. Thanks for taking the time to respond!
Buddy:
I understand what you are referring to on the Marketplace ministry. I heard some things spoken and it was "the faith movement verbage" (health and wealth message) which I am so against. When I was a baby christian many years ago I was drawn in to that by a friend for a short time. God showed me how deceitful it was thank goodness and I ran out of that. It is so destructive and is a cult. Yes, it was difficult for me when M&C was allowing it brought within our church. The Marketplace people are no longer at our church and TP is not teaching it. I can't speak for Jeff on the false doctrine. I do believe that his eyes were opened to this and he no longer allows this. If this was continued be be taught after M&C left I would no longer be at TP. In the past I have talked to some former people who used to attend TP prior to the "faith movement" seeping into TP. I believe some of them bought into this scam due to some of the TV evangelist's. I shared my story with them and they were very angry with me. Believers wrapped up in this cultic teaching are harder to reach with the the pure gospel of surrender and sacrifice than those who have never heard of Christ. Teachers have poisoned the sheep with this perverted gospel.
I feel it was wrong for M&C to be given the money to leave TP.
M&C I believe were on track for a long time but I feel that ambition,pride, ego and competion came into play including their abuse of authority. I believe they were self appointed apostle and prophet and they started wanting to make a name for themselves in lieu of God. This truly saddens me.
I've seen a lot of good changes in Pastor Jeff and the sorrow and hardship he has been through. I believe he has learned a lot and has been humbled much through the mess he was left with. It taked time to make changes, but he has been doing so i.e. new elders, advisory board, etc. I'm still backing him because I believe he loves God and just had a poor mentor. I believe he is trying to rectify all the mistakes that were made.
I have not heard Pastor Jeff support M&C. He is stilling trying with others to clean up the debris left behind.
To: D of D. Maybe you should do some light reading also based on the above..
To: undeniablylivid: I am no stranger to what the word of God states and am grounded in the word of God. Through the years I have sat under pastors that teach the pure gospe of Jesus Christ. Why, because God saved me out of the New Age Movement years ago and brought me to himself, From there he did not let me be deceived once again by the "Faith Movement" which was a familiar spirit from new age. When I was first saved and saw the destruction new age does to a person, I asked God to never let me be deceived again. He has honored that request. I love my Lord Jesus Christ very very much.
God Bless to all.
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: January 27, 2011 04:37AM
jesuschristismydelight:
You say, "I've seen a lot of good changes in Pastor Jeff..."
But you have still not specifically answered the questions previously posted.
You say that there are "new elders" and an "advisory board."
Does this mean that TP now has an elected board, which is mandated and required by its constitutional bylaws?
If so do advisory board members serve fixed terms and then stand for reelection?
Explain the election process, who voted, etc.
Can the board fire Pastor Jeff?
Does the board control the budget and decide specifically what salaries and expenses will be paid or does Pastor Jeff?
Is there an independently audited financial statement that is published annually and distributed to all donors, which discloses in detail all the salaries, expenses and compensation paid out from church funds?
Do you know what the total compensation salary and benefit package is that Pastor Jeff receives?
How is he accountable to the general membership of the church?
What checks and balances currently exist to avoid an abuse of power?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2011 11:40PM by rrmoderator.
You say, "I've seen a lot of good changes in Pastor Jeff..."
But you have still not specifically answered the questions previously posted.
You say that there are "new elders" and an "advisory board."
Does this mean that TP now has an elected board, which is mandated and required by its constitutional bylaws?
If so do advisory board members serve fixed terms and then stand for reelection?
Explain the election process, who voted, etc.
Can the board fire Pastor Jeff?
Does the board control the budget and decide specifically what salaries and expenses will be paid or does Pastor Jeff?
Is there an independently audited financial statement that is published annually and distributed to all donors, which discloses in detail all the salaries, expenses and compensation paid out from church funds?
Do you know what the total compensation salary and benefit package is that Pastor Jeff receives?
How is he accountable to the general membership of the church?
What checks and balances currently exist to avoid an abuse of power?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2011 11:40PM by rrmoderator.
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
Daughter of Dorcas
()
Date: January 27, 2011 10:22PM
The Moderator has raised some obvious issues that have NEVER changed about TPC. jesuschristismydelight many of us have been gone long enough where we will not be goaded or antagonized by someone who chose to stay in an unhealthy and abusive church when if you had listened for the still small voice of the Lord you would have heard the voice telling so many folks to flee. While wounds still hurt, many of us have turned the corner in our recovery from spiritual and personal abuse as a result of our attendance at TPC. If you want to defend Jeff, that is your choice and right. However, do not get defensive or combative with the posters on this forum when they raise the issues that we all have had with TPC which have not been corrected or changed. The honeymoon is over Jeff had a chance to make the changes that needed to be made to put TPC on the right track to being a healthy church and he did not do it. So you should not be surprised that criticism of Jeff Barnes appears on this forum.
D of D
D of D
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
buddy
()
Date: January 28, 2011 04:36PM
Turning Point Elders
Chris Johnston
Ken Hale
Wendi Davis
Dan Crawley
David Rech
David Scarth
Wayne Hageman
(There seems to be a person missing from the deacons list from the ten , also under(common interest groups) Marketplace Ministry it seems that the directors picture and information is missing!)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2011 04:49PM by buddy.
Chris Johnston
Ken Hale
Wendi Davis
Dan Crawley
David Rech
David Scarth
Wayne Hageman
(There seems to be a person missing from the deacons list from the ten , also under(common interest groups) Marketplace Ministry it seems that the directors picture and information is missing!)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2011 04:49PM by buddy.
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: January 28, 2011 10:25PM
buddy:
How does someone become an elder at TP?
How are they removed?
Is there any meaningful financial transparency?
How much salary and compensation is Pastor Jeff paid?
How does someone become an elder at TP?
How are they removed?
Is there any meaningful financial transparency?
How much salary and compensation is Pastor Jeff paid?
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
jesuschristismydelight
()
Date: January 28, 2011 10:34PM
Quote
Daughter of Dorcas
The Moderator has raised some obvious issues that have NEVER changed about TPC. jesuschristismydelight many of us have been gone long enough where we will not be goaded or antagonized by someone who chose to stay in an unhealthy and abusive church when if you had listened for the still small voice of the Lord you would have heard the voice telling so many folks to flee. While wounds still hurt, many of us have turned the corner in our recovery from spiritual and personal abuse as a result of our attendance at TPC. If you want to defend Jeff, that is your choice and right. However, do not get defensive or combative with the posters on this forum when they raise the issues that we all have had with TPC which have not been corrected or changed. The honeymoon is over Jeff had a chance to make the changes that needed to be made to put TPC on the right track to being a healthy church and he did not do it. So you should not be surprised that criticism of Jeff Barnes appears on this forum.
D of D
The ramication of the elders was accomplished last Sunday and a business meeting was held afterwards. Questions were addressed to Pastor Jeff about the Stewardship funds. He addressed these questions honestly and appropriately to everyone's satification.
I made a comment on a previous blog which I retract; (agreement an audit should be done). Please forgive me. The accounting is correct.
I am not aware that M&C were given $50K when they left. I am not privy to that information.
One question I have is: I believe all of you prayed to the Lord prior to giving your funds to the Stewardship Campaign. If the Lord laid it on your heart to give including the amount you were to give; were you not giving it to Him. Therefore, why would you want it back. You honored the Lord by giving it to Him. Please clarify.
It seems that some are still angry with things that occurred. I don't feel that Jesus would want this for you. I pray for your wounds and want the best for you all. Please forgive.
Some questions addressed by all would be best anwered by Pastor Jeff. He would be glad to answer them for you.
Sorry D of D that you felt I was being defensive. That was not my intent. Please forgive me.
Pastor Jeff is making changes at TP. He is only one person that was left with quite a mess to clean up. It takes time.
God Bless.
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: January 28, 2011 11:03PM
jesuschristismydelight:
You are being evasive and not answering questions.
You seem to be here only as an apologist without any intention of having a meaningful discussion.
Apparently the elders at TP are selected and not elected.
As an active member of TP you certainly know if there was an election and if so how it was conducted. But you have chosen to ignore the questions asked and provide no meaningful detailed answers.
This is very telling.
Apparently no independent audit has been done and distributed to donors, or you would have received one.
You offer nothing on this important issue, which would reflect meaningful change, other than Pastor Jeff "addressed these questions."
This seems to mean that no one in the church really knows where the money goes other than whatever Pastor Jeff and those he has decided to share that information with at TP.
It's no wonder that people are concerned "about funds" given "to the Stewardship Campaign."
When people contribute to a supposedly nonprofit tax-exempted church they expect an even better accounting than if it their money were given to some secular charity.
After all it was given to honor God not man.
How has Pastor Jeff "honored the Lord" by seemingly keeping secrets about the finances of TP?
When people expect accountability it isn't because they are "angry."
Read your bible.
Jesus said that many would come in his name, but he would not know them. And he specifically warned about wolves in sheep's clothing that would attempt to exploit believers.
Paul rebuked apparently corrupt leaders rather strongly in Galatians.
In the New Testament there is accountability regarding the selection criteria and behavior expected of deacons, elders and evangelists.
You appear to be ignoring all of this in order to continue your involvement in TP and essentially protect your emotional equity in the group.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2011 04:22AM by rrmoderator.
You are being evasive and not answering questions.
You seem to be here only as an apologist without any intention of having a meaningful discussion.
Apparently the elders at TP are selected and not elected.
As an active member of TP you certainly know if there was an election and if so how it was conducted. But you have chosen to ignore the questions asked and provide no meaningful detailed answers.
This is very telling.
Apparently no independent audit has been done and distributed to donors, or you would have received one.
You offer nothing on this important issue, which would reflect meaningful change, other than Pastor Jeff "addressed these questions."
This seems to mean that no one in the church really knows where the money goes other than whatever Pastor Jeff and those he has decided to share that information with at TP.
It's no wonder that people are concerned "about funds" given "to the Stewardship Campaign."
When people contribute to a supposedly nonprofit tax-exempted church they expect an even better accounting than if it their money were given to some secular charity.
After all it was given to honor God not man.
How has Pastor Jeff "honored the Lord" by seemingly keeping secrets about the finances of TP?
When people expect accountability it isn't because they are "angry."
Read your bible.
Jesus said that many would come in his name, but he would not know them. And he specifically warned about wolves in sheep's clothing that would attempt to exploit believers.
Paul rebuked apparently corrupt leaders rather strongly in Galatians.
In the New Testament there is accountability regarding the selection criteria and behavior expected of deacons, elders and evangelists.
You appear to be ignoring all of this in order to continue your involvement in TP and essentially protect your emotional equity in the group.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2011 04:22AM by rrmoderator.
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
buddy
()
Date: January 29, 2011 04:09AM
jesuschristismydelight ask us: One question I have is: I believe all of you prayed to the Lord prior to giving your funds to the Stewardship Campaign. If the Lord laid it on your heart to give including the amount you were to give; were you not giving it to Him. Therefore, why would you want it back. You honored the Lord by giving it to Him. Please clarify.
( I gave money to the Stewardship Campaign because I trusted Mike Villamor with it and also with my tithe. I was giving more then I had ever given to a church the 4 years I attended. Mike Villamor con us with no only with are money but with our mind bringing in false doctrine and making us suffer spiritual abuse. Jeff Barnes participated in the spiritual abuse. If Jeff Barnes wants to make things right he should want to give the money back. It would show his sincerity to make things right. He should on his own request have an audit of the books to show he wants things to be open and honest. All it seems he has done to try to make things right is to quite preaching the prosperity doctrine. The issues go way deeper because he was involved in all the things that went wrong at TP and he hasn't shown to us that anything much has really changed. Make your book open for all to see the changes and answer the questions the moderator has asked. )
( I gave money to the Stewardship Campaign because I trusted Mike Villamor with it and also with my tithe. I was giving more then I had ever given to a church the 4 years I attended. Mike Villamor con us with no only with are money but with our mind bringing in false doctrine and making us suffer spiritual abuse. Jeff Barnes participated in the spiritual abuse. If Jeff Barnes wants to make things right he should want to give the money back. It would show his sincerity to make things right. He should on his own request have an audit of the books to show he wants things to be open and honest. All it seems he has done to try to make things right is to quite preaching the prosperity doctrine. The issues go way deeper because he was involved in all the things that went wrong at TP and he hasn't shown to us that anything much has really changed. Make your book open for all to see the changes and answer the questions the moderator has asked. )
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
Daughter of Dorcas
()
Date: January 29, 2011 07:32AM
Quote
rrmoderator
buddy:
How does someone become an elder at TP?
They are hand picked by the senior pastor and the church rubber stamps his choice.
How are they removed?
They can resign or they can be removed by the senior pastor and the elder board.
Is there any meaningful financial transparency?
No, there is no financial transparency because the budgets are a joke and the line items can be changed and rearranged to suit the senior pastor.
How much salary and compensation is Pastor Jeff paid?
Well the only folks who probably know that are the Barnes, the elders, and Debbie Bowman. Salaries are not disclosed to the congregation, they are just expected to foot the bill.
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