Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
Daughter of Dorcas
()
Date: January 29, 2011 08:25AM
One question I have is: I believe all of you prayed to the Lord prior to giving your funds to the Stewardship Campaign. If the Lord laid it on your heart to give including the amount you were to give; were you not giving it to Him. Therefore, why would you want it back. You honored the Lord by giving it to Him. Please clarify.
When contemplating about contributing to the stewardship campaign we asked Ron Olin, Mike's hand picked head of the Stewardship campaign before the move to the junior high, if the church planned to pay cash for the properties that it proposed to buy. I had attended a church as a child that lost it's building because of financing. My parents and another family member lost several thousand dollars which in todays money would have been tens of thousands of dollars. Paying cash was important to us, it was a sign of financial responsibility. Ron was very adament that TPC would pay cash for any real estate acquisitions. So we were surprised when people started discussing the disappearance of $700,000.00 from the stewardship fund and the fact that all the properties had been bought with bank financing.
We had been deceived and defrauded by Ron and Mike. If plans changed then the facts should have been divulged to the congregation. They were not. The facts were intentionally withheld from the congregation so that the funds could be spent in ways the donors never intended for those funds to be used. As secretive as Mike and the Elders were about church finances this is not big surprise. If TPC did not disclose then people would continue to give, and no questions or criticism would have to be answered.
Fraud is fraud. We asked. We were given an answer. We would not have contributed a penny if we had known that bank financing would be involved in the acquisitions. Not only were we defrauded, but God was defrauded too. How do you think God feels about having his money squandered for the sake of Mike's ego? The bus we were told was to go pick up shut ins so they could attend church. It was not supposed to be so that it could waste fuel running around Asbury Field every Sunday morning. That stewardship money was not for severance pay for Mike. We would not have given him a nickel. The fact a penny of our money was used to give Mike Villamor a golden parachute is further fraud by TPC. We were not asked. I have researched non-profit and church finance law -- if money is given for a specific purpose, such as the stewardship fund, and the church wants to do something else with the money then they must go back to the donors and ask them to agree to let the church use the funds for the different use AND / OR OFFER A REFUND! That did not happen and we would have never agreed to allow TPC to use Stewardship Funds for even a penny of severance for Mike Villamor.
I am quite sure that God does not expect us to allow Mike, Ron, Jeff, and TPC to get away with fraud and theft of our money or anyone elses. Because at the end of the day that is what happened. TPC stole our money through its misuse and a web of deceipt and lies. They stole God's money to pay to put up the appearance of affluence. I cannot for the life of me see how you can condone or try to explain away fraud and theft. Since your remark mirrors what Jeff Barnes said to my husband and I, I guess you are just espousing the party line response to this issue. That is the way TPC has always "handled" situations isn't it? A position is taken and then everyone is given the response they should give. I am surprised and shocked that you would even hint that we should let this go unpunished. Maybe you have a different version of the Bible than the one I use and keep close. Mine teaches the difference between right and wrong. It also teaches that if you know of a wrong and go to that person and they do not listen and refuse to see the truth, then at some point in time you do get to treat them as non-believers and take them to court. We did not head down this path without seeking God and his will in this matter.
D of D
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2011 08:40AM by Daughter of Dorcas.
When contemplating about contributing to the stewardship campaign we asked Ron Olin, Mike's hand picked head of the Stewardship campaign before the move to the junior high, if the church planned to pay cash for the properties that it proposed to buy. I had attended a church as a child that lost it's building because of financing. My parents and another family member lost several thousand dollars which in todays money would have been tens of thousands of dollars. Paying cash was important to us, it was a sign of financial responsibility. Ron was very adament that TPC would pay cash for any real estate acquisitions. So we were surprised when people started discussing the disappearance of $700,000.00 from the stewardship fund and the fact that all the properties had been bought with bank financing.
We had been deceived and defrauded by Ron and Mike. If plans changed then the facts should have been divulged to the congregation. They were not. The facts were intentionally withheld from the congregation so that the funds could be spent in ways the donors never intended for those funds to be used. As secretive as Mike and the Elders were about church finances this is not big surprise. If TPC did not disclose then people would continue to give, and no questions or criticism would have to be answered.
Fraud is fraud. We asked. We were given an answer. We would not have contributed a penny if we had known that bank financing would be involved in the acquisitions. Not only were we defrauded, but God was defrauded too. How do you think God feels about having his money squandered for the sake of Mike's ego? The bus we were told was to go pick up shut ins so they could attend church. It was not supposed to be so that it could waste fuel running around Asbury Field every Sunday morning. That stewardship money was not for severance pay for Mike. We would not have given him a nickel. The fact a penny of our money was used to give Mike Villamor a golden parachute is further fraud by TPC. We were not asked. I have researched non-profit and church finance law -- if money is given for a specific purpose, such as the stewardship fund, and the church wants to do something else with the money then they must go back to the donors and ask them to agree to let the church use the funds for the different use AND / OR OFFER A REFUND! That did not happen and we would have never agreed to allow TPC to use Stewardship Funds for even a penny of severance for Mike Villamor.
I am quite sure that God does not expect us to allow Mike, Ron, Jeff, and TPC to get away with fraud and theft of our money or anyone elses. Because at the end of the day that is what happened. TPC stole our money through its misuse and a web of deceipt and lies. They stole God's money to pay to put up the appearance of affluence. I cannot for the life of me see how you can condone or try to explain away fraud and theft. Since your remark mirrors what Jeff Barnes said to my husband and I, I guess you are just espousing the party line response to this issue. That is the way TPC has always "handled" situations isn't it? A position is taken and then everyone is given the response they should give. I am surprised and shocked that you would even hint that we should let this go unpunished. Maybe you have a different version of the Bible than the one I use and keep close. Mine teaches the difference between right and wrong. It also teaches that if you know of a wrong and go to that person and they do not listen and refuse to see the truth, then at some point in time you do get to treat them as non-believers and take them to court. We did not head down this path without seeking God and his will in this matter.
D of D
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2011 08:40AM by Daughter of Dorcas.
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
nooneofanyimportence
()
Date: January 29, 2011 09:30AM
this latest poster sounds like the same old stuff, blaming the sheep for the actions of the leaders. pointing the finger at us , as in we gave it to God, thus obstaining leadership from any responsibility. they are trying to make us accountable all the while not being accountable themselves. I would say this person is probably in leadership,or has something to gain, thats why they stayed, the old excuse If heard so many time God did not tell me to leave. Well God did not actually tell me to no kill, the bible does and so on an on. this person must have a huge ego to think they themselves are appointed by the most high God, to fix turningpoint. that is the turningpoint arrogance in action. sometimes when I read this I actually think it is one of the hales writting this, jodi crawley, or even kim barnes herself. thats the major problem I have I JUST DONT TRUST THEM, and that is a sad testimony about turning point church and its leadership. it may just be me thats tainted
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
jesuschristismydelight
()
Date: January 29, 2011 12:26PM
Quote
Daughter of Dorcas
One question I have is: I believe all of you prayed to the Lord prior to giving your funds to the Stewardship Campaign. If the Lord laid it on your heart to give including the amount you were to give; were you not giving it to Him. Therefore, why would you want it back. You honored the Lord by giving it to Him. Please clarify.
When contemplating about contributing to the stewardship campaign we asked Ron Olin, Mike's hand picked head of the Stewardship campaign before the move to the junior high, if the church planned to pay cash for the properties that it proposed to buy. I had attended a church as a child that lost it's building because of financing. My parents and another family member lost several thousand dollars which in todays money would have been tens of thousands of dollars. Paying cash was important to us, it was a sign of financial responsibility. Ron was very adament that TPC would pay cash for any real estate acquisitions. So we were surprised when people started discussing the disappearance of $700,000.00 from the stewardship fund and the fact that all the properties had been bought with bank financing.
We had been deceived and defrauded by Ron and Mike. If plans changed then the facts should have been divulged to the congregation. They were not. The facts were intentionally withheld from the congregation so that the funds could be spent in ways the donors never intended for those funds to be used. As secretive as Mike and the Elders were about church finances this is not big surprise. If TPC did not disclose then people would continue to give, and no questions or criticism would have to be answered.
Fraud is fraud. We asked. We were given an answer. We would not have contributed a penny if we had known that bank financing would be involved in the acquisitions. Not only were we defrauded, but God was defrauded too. How do you think God feels about having his money squandered for the sake of Mike's ego? The bus we were told was to go pick up shut ins so they could attend church. It was not supposed to be so that it could waste fuel running around Asbury Field every Sunday morning. That stewardship money was not for severance pay for Mike. We would not have given him a nickel. The fact a penny of our money was used to give Mike Villamor a golden parachute is further fraud by TPC. We were not asked. I have researched non-profit and church finance law -- if money is given for a specific purpose, such as the stewardship fund, and the church wants to do something else with the money then they must go back to the donors and ask them to agree to let the church use the funds for the different use AND / OR OFFER A REFUND! That did not happen and we would have never agreed to allow TPC to use Stewardship Funds for even a penny of severance for Mike Villamor.
I am quite sure that God does not expect us to allow Mike, Ron, Jeff, and TPC to get away with fraud and theft of our money or anyone elses. Because at the end of the day that is what happened. TPC stole our money through its misuse and a web of deceipt and lies. They stole God's money to pay to put up the appearance of affluence. I cannot for the life of me see how you can condone or try to explain away fraud and theft. Since your remark mirrors what Jeff Barnes said to my husband and I, I guess you are just espousing the party line response to this issue. That is the way TPC has always "handled" situations isn't it? A position is taken and then everyone is given the response they should give. I am surprised and shocked that you would even hint that we should let this go unpunished. Maybe you have a different version of the Bible than the one I use and keep close. Mine teaches the difference between right and wrong. It also teaches that if you know of a wrong and go to that person and they do not listen and refuse to see the truth, then at some point in time you do get to treat them as non-believers and take them to court. We did not head down this path without seeking God and his will in this matter.
D of D:
Thank you so much for giving me more details on this. I'm just trying to understand. I really do appreciate it. Yes, I agree, if the Stewardship Campaign was strictly earmarked to build a new facility, then it should have been used only for that. I don't always agree because it's the popular vote, or people tell me to. I try to investigate the facts as I'm trying to here, then decide for myself. This not meant as a critical remark in anyway. I myself am trying to weave through this web myself. God Bless
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
Saddened
()
Date: January 29, 2011 01:55PM
nooneofanyimportence your not tainted, just absolutely accurate. TPC is nothing if not predictable in how they respond to criticism or a problem.
Saddened
Saddened
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
buddy
()
Date: January 29, 2011 04:40PM
How does someone become an elder at TP?
( you become a good butt kisser and a good brown noser)
How are they removed?
( they are removed only after there lips and nose are worn out, other wise its a lifetime appointment)
Is there any meaningful financial transparency?
( only in the eyes of the butt kisser and Pastor Jeff)
How much salary and compensation is Pastor Jeff paid?
( Pastor Jeff is paid a secret amount and know one is suppose to know, as far as compensation Pastor Jeff gets his butt kissed for free by all the Elders just like his spiritual father false Apostle Mike)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2011 05:00PM by buddy.
( you become a good butt kisser and a good brown noser)
How are they removed?
( they are removed only after there lips and nose are worn out, other wise its a lifetime appointment)
Is there any meaningful financial transparency?
( only in the eyes of the butt kisser and Pastor Jeff)
How much salary and compensation is Pastor Jeff paid?
( Pastor Jeff is paid a secret amount and know one is suppose to know, as far as compensation Pastor Jeff gets his butt kissed for free by all the Elders just like his spiritual father false Apostle Mike)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2011 05:00PM by buddy.
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
jesuschristismydelight
()
Date: January 29, 2011 05:09PM
Quote
Daughter of Dorcas
One question I have is: I believe all of you prayed to the Lord prior to giving your funds to the Stewardship Campaign. If the Lord laid it on your heart to give including the amount you were to give; were you not giving it to Him. Therefore, why would you want it back. You honored the Lord by giving it to Him. Please clarify.
When contemplating about contributing to the stewardship campaign we asked Ron Olin, Mike's hand picked head of the Stewardship campaign before the move to the junior high, if the church planned to pay cash for the properties that it proposed to buy. I had attended a church as a child that lost it's building because of financing. My parents and another family member lost several thousand dollars which in todays money would have been tens of thousands of dollars. Paying cash was important to us, it was a sign of financial responsibility. Ron was very adament that TPC would pay cash for any real estate acquisitions. So we were surprised when people started discussing the disappearance of $700,000.00 from the stewardship fund and the fact that all the properties had been bought with bank financing.
We had been deceived and defrauded by Ron and Mike. If plans changed then the facts should have been divulged to the congregation. They were not. The facts were intentionally withheld from the congregation so that the funds could be spent in ways the donors never intended for those funds to be used. As secretive as Mike and the Elders were about church finances this is not big surprise. If TPC did not disclose then people would continue to give, and no questions or criticism would have to be answered.
Fraud is fraud. We asked. We were given an answer. We would not have contributed a penny if we had known that bank financing would be involved in the acquisitions. Not only were we defrauded, but God was defrauded too. How do you think God feels about having his money squandered for the sake of Mike's ego? The bus we were told was to go pick up shut ins so they could attend church. It was not supposed to be so that it could waste fuel running around Asbury Field every Sunday morning. That stewardship money was not for severance pay for Mike. We would not have given him a nickel. The fact a penny of our money was used to give Mike Villamor a golden parachute is further fraud by TPC. We were not asked. I have researched non-profit and church finance law -- if money is given for a specific purpose, such as the stewardship fund, and the church wants to do something else with the money then they must go back to the donors and ask them to agree to let the church use the funds for the different use AND / OR OFFER A REFUND! That did not happen and we would have never agreed to allow TPC to use Stewardship Funds for even a penny of severance for Mike Villamor.
I am quite sure that God does not expect us to allow Mike, Ron, Jeff, and TPC to get away with fraud and theft of our money or anyone elses. Because at the end of the day that is what happened. TPC stole our money through its misuse and a web of deceipt and lies. They stole God's money to pay to put up the appearance of affluence. I cannot for the life of me see how you can condone or try to explain away fraud and theft. Since your remark mirrors what Jeff Barnes said to my husband and I, I guess you are just espousing the party line response to this issue. That is the way TPC has always "handled" situations isn't it? A position is taken and then everyone is given the response they should give. I am surprised and shocked that you would even hint that we should let this go unpunished. Maybe you have a different version of the Bible than the one I use and keep close. Mine teaches the difference between right and wrong. It also teaches that if you know of a wrong and go to that person and they do not listen and refuse to see the truth, then at some point in time you do get to treat them as non-believers and take them to court. We did not head down this path without seeking God and his will in this matter.
D of D:
So what is a good church you would recommend? I was considering the Victory 4-square church in Marysville
D of D
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
jesuschristismydelight
()
Date: January 29, 2011 05:17PM
D of D:
I was considering visiting the Victory 4-square church in Marysville. Is that a good church? What other church(s) do you recommend? God Bless
I was considering visiting the Victory 4-square church in Marysville. Is that a good church? What other church(s) do you recommend? God Bless
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
Daughter of Dorcas
()
Date: January 30, 2011 12:42AM
Quote
jesuschristismydelight
D of D:
I was considering visiting the Victory 4-square church in Marysville. Is that a good church? What other church(s) do you recommend? God Bless
Dear jesuschristismydelight,
I have never attended the Victory 4-Square Church in Marysville, however it is my observation that they are God's hands and feet in Marysville with their foodbank and other outreach programs. That speaks volumes to me. We were very fortunate we found a church in Arlington almost immediately with a pastor who understood about leaving an abusive church. We attend Lifeway Four Square in Arlington. We meet at Kent Prairie Elementary. We have two services one at 9:00AM and one at 11:00 AM on Sunday mornings. You are welcome to check us out.
D of D
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
nooneofanyimportence
()
Date: January 30, 2011 02:36AM
So the way it works as far as my understanding is, the elders signed an agreement to pay the building fund back the money they used as severence packages. Unfortunately for the congregation, the eldersa arent going to pay it back out their own pockets, it will come out of the churchs money, money given as tithe and offerings to do Gods work. so many people who gave to the building fund in the first place, will be paying to replace it themselves , of course they probably dont know this. I think this is really unethitical practices by people who think themselves, righteous.
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
Saddened
()
Date: January 30, 2011 03:27AM
Quote
nooneofanyimportence
So the way it works as far as my understanding is, the elders signed an agreement to pay the building fund back the money they used as severence packages. Unfortunately for the congregation, the eldersa arent going to pay it back out their own pockets, it will come out of the churchs money, money given as tithe and offerings to do Gods work. so many people who gave to the building fund in the first place, will be paying to replace it themselves , of course they probably dont know this. I think this is really unethitical practices by people who think themselves, righteous.
You are absolutely correct. In reading and researching church finance, I found a lot of information about the practice of borrowing from a designated fund of donations, such as a building fund, the practice is less than ethical and most churches avoid the practice by not even considering that as an option even in a crisis. It was also stated in a number of books by different authors that if a church solicits donations for a specific purpose, such as a building fund or real estate property purchase, they must use the money for the exact purpose the funds were asked for and donated for. If circumstances change and the reason the funds were given is not going to occur then a church must go back to the donors and ask if they can transfer the funds to another fund or the general fund or offer the donor a refund of their donation. Mismanagement of church finances does not relieve the obligation or duty to use donated funds for the purpose the funds were donated. TPC needed to ask the donors for approval even if they planned to repay the Stewardship Fund for the loan. They did not do that. As D of D has pointed out, the donors to the TPC Stewardship Campaign were taken advantage of by a greedy power happy senior pastor. The current leadership at TPC is not any better.
Saddened
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2011 03:32AM by Saddened.
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