You make a good point and I agree with your statement “Strangly Mike and Cindy are always right on and victimized.”

Quote
Die Quietly
Hello Adrift and welcome to the forum. We know that Cindy wasn't afraid - odd that she would feel the need to alter her stance now to make sure the story was told in a way that protects her reputation. For everyone who has spoken to them, against them, and in correction of them they have created stories to counteract them. On person was demonized, others are mentally unstable, and still others are deceived. Strangly Mike and Cindy are always right on and victimized. Sadly they live in a state of fear where they have to 'spin' everything to where they are victims calling it persecution. They believe there are ringleaders pulling people away. I think the 400-500 people who have left would take exception to being told that they 'followed' another person out of TP, especially when so many have been spoken to by God, individually about the things that are no longer okay at TP. Furthermore, if Mike and Cindy have been properly teaching us all to listen to God and not Man we would all be listing to God and not following man out - right - or have they taught us all to listen to man and therefore we've followed a man out of TP.... For a people who believe Gods favor rests in numbers and $$ success I would have thought they would have heard by now that God is speaking to them in their own language. My heart goes out to those who continue to leave and be scattered. So many don't even have a church home and have little hope in finding one. Even where some have found a 'home' they don't trust it at all. I feel for the pastors that are beleagered (sp) with the TP cast aways and all the baggage we come with. With the count now somewhere below 400 what can they possibly be thinking? When will another elder have courage and speak for those who have left. Weren't we all treasured? Aren't we part of the church? Are we just not important? We are still part of Turning Point, even if we are not there - won't someone care enough about us to speak up for those who have been broken by this? Who will be willing to be a voice for those who have in their weakness been silenced? I suppose if you've chosen to stay you have seen those who have spoken and left get slaughtered as they've gone out the door. It happens to everyone who leaves so now when people leave they leave quietly so as not to get too many knives in the back as they go. If even the strong who have left are brought to their knees by the shunning and verbal execution - what will happen to the little ones, the weak ones and the sick ones who see that Gods spirit has left so they go to follow it but are innocent to the politics yet are slaughtered with the strong. Scripture is clear with it's woes to those who stumble the weak - anyone want a millstone around their neck? I have no more faith that TP will find their turning point and change - time to jump ship and wash your hands of the blood of the saints that have left. My heart breaks for what is coming spiritually.

They are playing the Victim card here! This is the same pattern of behavior that the Obama administration keeps making when people disagree with their Marxist agenda. THis administration and political party come out calling people who disagree with their spending and Health care proposals as being RACISTS!

I believe that cult leaders like Mike and Tony are breading mind numb robotic sycophants, who are taught to toss out common logic and reasoning and accept there authority and teachings along with all there mangled theology as the "NEW TRUTH."
What I mean by mangled theology and aberrant teaching is this; the further we are from God the less truth we will have in our life. All of us have bad theology in our life, Bad theology stems from our sin or toleration to sin. How do we know what sin is the more and more we trust God, the more we begin to know and understand His nature, His truths, His laws, His love etc. Theology is what defines our belief system. Knowing that God is perfect in every way, that He is truth, and the Bible is His inherent word, changes our approach to how we read the bible. Our faith by trusting Him, our prospective of life falls more and more in line with His truths and principles. A person who is further from God will not have a strong since of right and wrong will have be more passive tolerant wishy-washy approach to life issues. This person will have aberrant tolerations to non biblical beliefs. They will rely upon their own works to justify themselves and they will rely upon there own self protection attitudes especially when confronted with an opposing or corrective belief system. They refuse to debate because they are afraid to be exposed.

Turning Point adopted Tony Cunningham’s curriculum for SOMA North West and this was part of my original line of questioning with Kim Barns. Immediately she put up a defensive regarding the aberrant teachings and challenges to test Tony’s teachings against the word of God. Demonizing me with the staff and calling me Bitter and Unforgiving. These people are unwilling to debate because they can not break the arguments!

This is how Tony teaches. He takes a concept like....polygamy and goes to the bible to find any supporting verses that would support his belief system i.e Tony's Heart of David class helps set up his twisted theology idolizing the life of David. Tony also lives in California and Polygamy is not legally accepted. So he goes back to the bible to see if there are any other verses that offer a similar life style. Ah he finds some verse where the apostle Paul refers to Timothy as a Son. So now Tony takes this verse and mangles it’s original intent to malign with his aberrant teaching to justify his Spiritual Daughter living with him rejecting and cutting off all communication with her natural, God loving parents.

For any one to disagree with or call them out, we are demonized as being bitter and unforgiving.
Well I’m sorry Tony and Mike if the truth hurts, it has nothing to do with bitterness or unforgiveness!

You’re like that pedophile lurking in my neighborhood prying upon little children, your hopping that you are not exposed!

And you dare to say to those who oppose your teachings as being “unforgiving!!!”

Your abhorrent Theologies tarnish and discredit My lord Jesus and your teachings dishonor his testimony!

Sorry to disappoint you Tony and Mike but you guys disgrace the witness of Jesus.

FOR ME THE HONOR OF JESUS AND

HIS TESTIMONY, WITNESS AND

TEACHINGS ARE WORTH FIGHTING FOR!!!

...

BraveHeart

Once you have heard the truth, you can no longer be the vicitm. The leaders have heard the truth from several points, several perhaps hundred people and continue to practice their deceptive faith. Kathryn may have been a "lamb led to slaughter" but she is no victim now because she has heard the truth. She is now a willing participant because she has heard the truth, and refuses to depart from the evil. There is something in staying that rewards her. Perhaps it is the acceptance and praise of the leaders and the continued belief they can be god for her. Or, perhaps it is the wonderful feeling of superiority that comes from being in the "core" of TP leadership. For leadership to purposefully turn their backs on former members who were once valued and call them evil is nothing short of abusive. Bad, Bad, Bad.

Look at all the self promotion going on this page.

It's all about Mike and Cindi

I saw this carton and it reminded me of the self righteous attitude that the cult members have.



The people still following Tony and Mike will not look at there fruit but judge the people who have left and demonize them for leaving.
They are not interested in the truth.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/2009 01:22AM by BraveHeart.

The 16th-century reformer, Martin Luther wrote the following meditation on John 2:24--"But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all men" (John 2:24)--which is still, of course, very relevant today, but especially to our discussion here. Luther said:

"...I dare not accept something just because a respected person says it. A person can be holy and God-fearing and still be in error. That's why I don't want to rely on people. As this passage says, the Lord Christ didn't rely on people either. Furthermore, in the book of Matthew, Jesus earnestly warns us to beware of false prophets, who will come and not only claim to be Christians, but also 'perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were possible' (24:24).

"Rather than trusting the church [authorities and their way of thinking], we should crawl under the wings of our mother hen, The Lord Christ, and look to him alone. The heavenly Father said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!" (Matthew 17:5). God wants us to listen to Christ alone."



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/2009 03:16AM by LearningPoint.

Here is another meditation from Luther on John 15:16, which says "You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit--fruit that will last. Then the Father will give you whatever you ask in my name."

Luther said,

"A fierce battle has been raging in this wold since the very beginning. Cain wanted to choose God on his own terms. He wanted God to value his work and his offering instead of his brother's. The world has followed Cain's example from that day until now. The world always wants to turn this verse in John around and say, 'I don't want to be chosen by God; I want to choose him first.' But God cannot and will not tolerate this. He turns their words back around and says, 'You cannot and should not choose me. I must choose you. It won't happen the way you imagine, but the way I want it to. I want to be your Lord and Master. I don't want to be mastered by you.' That's why throughout Scripture God condemns and throws away this type of choosing that goes against what he commands.

"Even Paul condemns this vice. He says, 'Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you.' (Colossians 2:18). Likewise, he says, 'Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humillty and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value (v. 23). With these words, he describes those who practice useless, self-chosen worship and justify it by saying, 'I mean well and am doing it for God and to honor him. It will please him, and so he will be merciful to me.' These people are twice as bad as God's enemies. God called the Israelites out of Egypt and gave them the Ten Commandments, telling them what they should and shouldn't do so that they wouldn't invent ways to serve him. In the same way, God want to tell us what it means to serve him."

Both of the my previous posts were taken from a book of collected meditations by Martin Luther, entitled "Faith Alone: A Daily Devotional" published by Zondervan. Some very good, affirming stuff in there for those of you who, like me, are still getting your footing back after standing too long on the shifting sands of Turning Point teachings and ways. (The Sno-Isle Library system has at least one copy.)

To Turning Point Church World Outreach Center: To the Pastors,Elders,Deacons,Staff and any person in a leadership position: This is a message for you: Acts 20:27-31 For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God. Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears. Ephesians 4:11-14 And he Himself gave some to apostles, some prophets, some evangelist and some pastors and teachers for the equipping of the Saints for the work of the ministry for the edifying of the body of Christ, Till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God to a perfect man, To the measure of the stature of the fullness for Christ that we should no longer be children tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine by the trickery of men in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting. But speaking the truth in love may grow up in all things into him who is the head Christ from whom the whole body join and knit together by whatever joint supplies according to the effective working by which every part does its share. Causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. This is a message of encouragement for those people who remain at Turning Point and want to confront false apostle Mike Villamor.2Tim4:1-8 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ who will judge the living and the dead at his appearing in his kingdom. Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, Rebuke, Exhort, with all long suffering for the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap upon themselves teachers and they will turn their ears away from the truth and be turned aside to fables, but you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist and fulfill the ministry. For I am already being poured out as a drink offering and the time of my departure is at hand. I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. (The Holy Spirit has made you overseers to shepherd the church of God,savage wolves will come in,from among yourself men will rise up,speaking perverse things,to draw away disciple after themselves(Mike Villamor)this is one of the men from the inside who is from among yourself who has has caused all the division and disunity at Turning Point Church World Outreach Center. The church is no longer growing.The word of God says that we are to convince,rebuke,exhort, fight for the truth, keep the faith and speak the truth in love)

I call on you, oh God, for you will answer me; give ear to me and hear my prayer. (Psalm 17:6) Father please save our brothers and sisters from false teachings and those who would enrich themselves by fleecing your flock at TPC. I ask that you intercede and put an end to the false teaching and provide our brothers and sisters with a shepherd of your choosing so that they can once again feel the Holy Spirit in their midst. I ask that you remove those who are not acting in the manor which you would have shepherds of your flock act. Show these false shepherds that your house is not a business and that your word is not a commodity to be used for the generation of wealth for those who profess to be shepherds of your flock. In Jesus name I pray, amen.

Saddened

I saw a friend who still attends Turning Point as I was coming out of Fred Meyer today. She hugged me warmly and told me about someone who had received Christ today at services. I told her she had made my day, and she had! I am so grateful that God is faithfully at work at all times and in all places! (Please pray for this woman who has taken the first step in a journey of faith.)

But this "salvation" also confirmed something I had been pondering this week. Even if we preach the right message and people are impacted by God's Spirit through the message we bring, we should not assume that we are personally in a right place with God. We need to always be examining our lives. Paul said we need to examine ourselves to see if we're really in the faith, even!

Case in point: I cannot tell you how many times, as I've been writing Christian materials and calling others to embrace some truth, I've had to stop and confess and repent right there on the spot, because the way I have been acting, speaking, or "attituding" does not line up with truth I am putting down "on paper." I KNOW THIS: I can never conclude about myself that I'm doing well in my walk with Christ just because I am in the thick of ministry.

Another case in point: my paternal grandfather was a preacher in his younger years. There were people who testified even after he died that they were "saved under his ministry." However, as he raised his family, he molested three of his four daughters, beat my dad (his only son) regularly, and abused my grandmother her whole life until he was physically incapable of doing so (but continued verbally to the end). On his deathbead, my dad approached him and talked with him about his need to reconcile with Christ. My grandfather cursed God on his deathbed and, as far as I know, passed into a Christless eternity. So it appears that while there will be people in heaven as a result of God using him, he himself will not be there (though, only God knows these final things for certain).

There is a great song by Sara Groves in her Conversations album entitled "This Journey Is My Own." The lyrics follow:

Verse 1
When I stand before the Lord, I'll be standing alone.
This journey is my own.
Still I want man's advice, and I "need" man's approval,
But this journey is my own.

Chorus
Why would I want to live for man
And pay the highest price?
What would it mean to gain the world,
Only to lose my life?

Verse 2
So much of what I do is to make a good impression.
This journey is my own.
So much of what I say is to make myself look better.
This journey is my own.

Chorus

Verse 3
I have never felt relief like I feel it right now.
This journey is my own.
'Cause tryin' to please the world, it was breaking me down,
It was breaking me down.

Bridge
Now I live and I breathe for an audience of one,
Now I live and I breathe for an audience of one,
Now I live and I breathe for an audience of one,
'Cause I know this journey is my own.

Ending
You can live for someone else,
And it will only bring you pain.
I can't even judge myself.
Only the Lord can say,
"Well done."

PS: I highly recommend this album to all of you who are still hurting and struggling. Another album of hers I like is All Right Here...healing stuff in both of them, partly because she's so real and "approachable" as a person in them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2009 10:19AM by LearningPoint.