Control comes first. That is the main hurdle. After that it all depends on the mental stability of the one in control. Does the individual in charge have paranoia issues? Impulse control issues? Grandios delusions? There is a fine line that separates the benign from the truely dangerous. I'm talking about the diference between the basic self serving and power hungry selfishness and delusional psycopath. The first is just an immoral nuisance, the later is very very dangerous. I hope that Mike is stable.

Actually I think the person you are misquoting is John the Baptist.

How's everybody doing?

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Painfuljourney
Bob Harrison makes me sick....how is that for positive words. He says, What we speak is what we get. The problem is it puts the power in man, not God.

INCREASE, INCREASE, INCREASE, he says. In fact you can pay him to go to Hawaii to learn how to INCREASE.

Didnt Paul say, Let me decrease so CHRIST can increase.

hmmm I heard Mike wants to go to a conference in Hawaii on the churches dime hmmm I wonder if its that one. Hmmm for every increase someone has to decrease. too bad its not self thats decreasing and Gods spirit increasing.

I went to TPC for about 8 months and left quickly when it became evident that i wasn't holy enough. All I wanted was to serve God in the ministry he gifted me with, but in order to do so, you had to be a certain way. I watched people be put on the worship team who appeared to be marvelously christian because they raised their hands in a particular way and worshiped with holy abandon but they had sex out of marriage during the week. The worship directed to God from me is inspired by him, and not by a set of do's and don'ts. I had been involved in worship ministry for the past 11 years at other church's and it was always a wonderful experience. However, what I found at TPC was that to be on the worship team meant that you became a rock star and that you had to put on a false sense of humility. In fact you didn't even have to particularily sing very well. I kept hearing that the worship was to bring heaven to earth. The reality was, they are bringing rock star world idolatry into the worship scene at TPC. Just look at the my space pages for people like Spencer. He looks like a rock star. This is the problem at TPC: People. The Bible is not the problem; Christ is not the problem. What I viewed were people being dishonest with leadership; people not taking responsibility for their own walk with Christ and instead, worshipping the leaders because it is easier and funner and you get quicker resonses to how you kiss their butts. No one told Cyndi that she really had a crappy voice and has no personality to speak of. Instead, she was held up as a singing diva. It is so easy to worship leaders if we attach rock star images to them. we can assign all the blame in the world to leadership, but until the people in the congregation step up and realize that they are practicing idolotry, there is no hope for change. it is to much easier to worship things that you can see and hear such as Cyndi's words "falling as gold" from her mouth. I met Mike and Cyndi years ago and they were such sweet wholesome people. To see them today, Cyndi is a dyed platnum blonde and cold as ice, and Mike is untouchable. This is what idolatry does to people. They begin to believe they are who other people say they are "awe inspiring" "words flowing like gold" blah blah blah The people at TPC are at this point responsible to stand up and realize that they are not doing the leadership any favors by blindly following. I've been following this post for a while and agree with about everything on it. when I first started attending TPC I was caught up into a whirlwind. people coming here and going there, parades, jubilees, plays, music. I wondered to myself when these people spent quality family time with their children? It was all very confusing to me. Every week Mike preached about tithing. Every week I became more and more turned off or feelings of guilt assailed me. I was raised in a very fundamental home and the whole TPC law thing took me to the dark spot. TPC leaders don't seem to understand the grace thing in the Bible. Graces means I didn't earn it or do anything to bring it about. Cyndi preached on how her son Joel is God's favorite because he wanted an ice cream and somehow God provided it when he didn't even have the money. I remember going to church at TPC some years ago and sharing with my friend that there was no way I could attend church there because Cyndi's voice hurt my ears. Finally, when we returned, she started singing alto where she wasn't screeching out high pitchy notes. Now, for those of you on this forum who keep saying "keep it nice, dont' say anything mean", well, that is the TPC mantra. Don't tell the truth is what it amounts to. I'm not judging, I just saying. The final straw for me was when they put their 13 year old daughter on worship team. How rediculous. This little girl has never had her faith tested, she has stayed in a cocoon much like Angelina Jolie's kids and has no idea what she is doing up there. Unfortunately, she has no idea what her parents are doing to her. She is probably believing that she is one of God's favorites too. That is abuse. Those children are being abused because they are being raised to believe they are above all others. This is called narcissism.

I have found false word/faith, name it claim it, positive confession prosperity teaching on TPWOC web site : Go to resoures, then click Market place Ministry: The Leader of Market place Ministry at TPWOC is pastor? Ken Ralston (www.myspace/ken ralston) new friends list famous false teachers E.W. Kenyon, Creflo Dollar, etc. This is classic word/faith, name it claim it , positive confession, false prosperity terminology (teaching). You created your own reality through the power of your words and positive confession. Just like God so you to can become a little God! Below is copied from TPWOC above mentioned web site. s Proverbs 18:20-21 says:
"A man's [moral] self shall be filled with the fruit of his mouth, and with the consequence of his words he must be satisfied [whether good or evil]. Death and life are in the power of the tongue, and they who indulge in it shall eat the fruit of it [for death or life]."
Matthew 12:34 says "For out of the fullness (the overflow, the superabundance) of the heart the mouth speaks."

There is great power in the words that come out of our mouth. Here are some resources to get your mouth and heart agreeing with the truth of the Word of God.

The Blessing

Contrary to what many people believe or have heard through traditional teaching, the blessing is not a material item such as a house or car. While these things are the results of the blessing, they are not the blessing itself. The blessing is an empowerment or enablement from God to help you get supernatural results in everything you do. Whether it is on your job, ministry, relationships or gifts that God has endowed you with, when the blessing is in operation, you can’t fail! When you speak God’s Word, you release the blessing. Make these faith confessions every day and begin experiencing the blessing in your life:
The Blessing
Thank You, Lord, that the blessing is working in me, on me and around me. I declare that I am blessed when I come in and blessed when I come out. Jesus came to the earth to restore the blessing that Adam lost in the Garden of Eden when he sinned and because I am a child of God, I have a covenant right to the blessing! I declare that like Abraham, I am blessed to be a blessing until all families of the earth are blessed. Because of the blessing of God on my life, I am empowered to prosper in every endeavor that I take on and every project that I begin. I am blessed on my job and all my relationships are blessed. Like Joseph, those in authority over me see the blessing of God on my life and I have favor as a result. Thank You, Lord, for blessing me with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places. I am powerful, wealthy, influential and blessed! In Jesus’ name I pray. Amen.
Scriptural references:
·Deuteronomy 28:6-8
·Genesis 28:14
·Genesis 39:3
·Ephesians 1:3

Sounds like who ever wrote these drank to much muscle juice! I don't know about any of you but this guy has been blessed out of his mind!

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trouble
Actually I think the person you are misquoting is John the Baptist.

How's everybody doing?

hey "trouble" go flame some where else.

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trouble
Actually I think the person you are misquoting is John the Baptist.

How's everybody doing?

Yes, it was John the Baptist who said that he must decrease and Christ must increase. So now that we have the proper source and context, the point remains: Christ is the one who should be increasing, not us.

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tell the truth
I went to TPC for about 8 months and left quickly when it became evident that i wasn't holy enough. ... I met Mike and Cyndi years ago and they were such sweet wholesome people. To see them today, Cyndi is a dyed platnum blonde and cold as ice, and Mike is untouchable. This is what idolatry does to people. They begin to believe they are who other people say they are "awe inspiring" "words flowing like gold" blah blah blah ... I remember going to church at TPC some years ago and sharing with my friend that there was no way I could attend church there because Cyndi's voice hurt my ears. ... The final straw for me was when they put their 13 year old daughter on worship team. How rediculous. This little girl has never had her faith tested, she has stayed in a cocoon much like Angelina Jolie's kids and has no idea what she is doing up there. Unfortunately, she has no idea what her parents are doing to her. She is probably believing that she is one of God's favorites too. That is abuse. Those children are being abused because they are being raised to believe they are above all others. This is called narcissism.

Welcome to the forum, "tell the truth." I think you touched on several symptoms that reveal things from which leadership and congregation at TP are ailing (and have been for some time). And as you've noted, as time goes on, the spiritual and social illnesses grow more acute and evident. I heard an illustration once from a pastor; he said that unchecked sin is revealed over time like a bad golf swing. At first when the ball leaves the tee, it doesn't look far of course, but the further down the fairway it gets, the more evident a bad swing becomes--slicing, slicing, until it's in the sandtrap or even the trees.

Turning Point has left the course--the narrow road that leads to life--and has put its feet on the wide road (of serving power and mammon), which leads to destruction. All the things you noted are evidences of the little steps along the way that have led to these previously unthinkable steps taken boldly now into the apostolic movement and word-faith teaching.

And by the way, Cyndi and Mike, God does not have favorites. (Romans 2:11) You are not extra special, but you do have a trust, a responsibiity to be faithful with what God has placed in your hands. What are you doing by going into these clearly false, unbiblical movements?! What on earth are you thinking? What is really driving these decisions? Lust for money and power? A delusional sense of grandeur? A false spirit speaking false words to you both? What?! What is it?! Why are you hell-bent on all of this? Why? Why? Why?

Does anybody have inside information on who preached and what was the message about at last nights, Friday TPWOC Fan the Flame Service? I was going to go but I ran out of disguises!

Sorry everyone for the confusion on scripture.

Here is some more scripture. Please feel free to check them against the Word - Its the BEREAN way.

Matt 13:22-23 '...the deceitfulness of riches choke the word and he becomes unfruitful.'

Proverbs 16:16 'It is better to get wisdom instead of gold.'

Luke 6:20 "Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God."

2 Cor. 8:9: "For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sakes He became poor, that you through His poverty might become rich."

1 Tim 6:3-12 'men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself.'

2 Peter 2:14 ”They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children”

James 5:1-5: "Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries that are coming upon you! Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth-eaten. Your gold and silver are corroded, and their corrosion will be a witness against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have heaped up treasure in the last days. Indeed the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the reapers have reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth. You have lived on the earth in pleasure and luxury; you have fattened your hearts as in a day of slaughter. "

Phil. 3:7-1:1 " But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead." Paul was a Pharisee and was quite rich - yet he gave it up for a life to follow Christ.

James 2:5 "Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?" Yet, today the very opposite is being said, "has not God chosen the rich because they have faith for their wants!"