This Honor Teaching is one Tony uses to rally up support here in Sacramento back in 2002-2006. Manipulating people into More Tony Worship. Stirring people up to the point of competing, trying to out do each other by giving extravagant gifts to Tony. What made me sick is seeing how Tony has such disdained towards the the other pastors on staff. He would gloat the gifts and money in there face... He would then compare the ministry he had at RLc to other churches in the area. I have not heard him do much bragging lately then again I have not been to RLc for about 2 years.

I would venture that same is true of Mike and his Honor Teaching.


....and to think some of you staffers and parishioners at Turning Point Church think Tony will come up there and not promote his false teachings because he was asked not to teach his Spiritual Parenting???
Don't kid yourself for a second your leaders are simply feeding you a lie.
they are trying to get you people on the fence to relax to start trusting them again....
But here is the real truth

Mike is still Tony's Spiritual Son!!!

Cindi is a Spiritual Daughter to Tony!!!

Im sure that makes the Harley run better! Mean while you have people in your church that have real needs and Mike and Cindi will stand up there and make you feel like your not doing enough.... Your not giving enough.... Your not serving enough.

BraveHeart

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TurningPointReject
There seems to be a tone deafness on the part of Mike and Cyndi. And no, I am not referring to the comment in an earlier post that said Cyndi sounds shrill when she sings.

I am referring to an apparent lack of understanding of how their flock has been impacted by the economy of late. First, they take a four month, all expense paid, sabbatical; they return and discuss gifts that have been bestowed upon them (or that they purchased); they invite Bob Harrison to come and speak and he tells folks that if they are not wealthy it is because they are not speaking the "right" words or confession-as though economics has nothing to do with money matters; they are expecting the church to send them on an all expense trip to Hawaii to hear more of Mr. Harrison's teaching.

All of these show an incredible lack of judgment and sensitivity to their flock, the majority who have been significantly impacted by our economic situation. Microsoft is laying off employees; Boeing is laying off employees; each of these companies are supported by several other companies in the area whom will experience the ripple effects of these layoffs. More and more members of TPc will feel the effects of the economy in very personal ways. And yet Mike and Cyndi seem to be oblivious to this reality.

As long as Mike and Cyndi continue to increase that's all that matters. Recession Proof your finances. Sounds good, but there was no meat on that plate. Did you learn anything that will help you to recession proof your finances? Did you learn how to put together a plan to eliminate your debt? Did he teach you about the wisdom of having an emergency fund? Did he tell you how to go about living within your means? Did he give you any insights into how to make your money go further during a recession? Did he give you insights in how to follow God when you have just received a pink slip? No, he told you to repeat a verse 10 times a day for 40 days. If you want to learn about these other things, just buy my book and purchase my tapes. No cash? Not to worry. We take credit cards.

So hows that working out for you? When the creditor calls asking when you plan to make the payment will you repeat the verse to the creditor? When you get the default statement on your mortgage, will you write that verse on the statement and hope that the bank takes it as payment? When the car payment comes due and you don't have enough money to make the payment, will you print up a bumper sticker with that verse and put it on your car? When you have no choice but to apply for food stamps because you don't have enough money to put food in your children's tummy will you write that verse on your application?

Sadly I am reminded of the story where Jesus overturned the tables of the money changers. "You have turned my Fathers house into a den of thieves." Would Jesus have commended Mike and Mr. Harrison or would he have turned over the tables?
Tone deaf.

Yes TPR,

This is a very sad teaching. I am very sad for the people it directly effects and those it indirectly effects as well. Funny i am reading a book called "How to Read the Bible for all its Worth" Its a very good book and in the first five pages of the first chapter it addresses the "prosperity gospel" and tells you the common mis-interpretation of the scriptures used to think this way. Its really hard sometimes, because as i am held accountable for what i know. I am also accountable for loving the ignorant.

The hard thing of this is how to differentiate the "person" with the "ideology" that the person has. Making love that much more difficult. Recently I meet a person, full of pride and arrogance, this guy had more biblical knowledge than i did, but he had almost no love for people with differencing views. It was a differning experience, but just as painful, as talking to someone who has almost no knowledge and lots of zeal. You want to help but communication is now limited because the person has no experience of love or knowledge of the bible.

This experience with this person made me think of how in TPC, people are very loving (most of the time)... I have even had my differences with leadership. Where people have said some pretty not loving things, but thats where you confront them, and i have had peace that way. As well as a humbling experience to go up to someone and tell them that you need to forgive them and to ask them to pray with you.

So thanks for your thoughts
Conner

If we look at Mr Harrisons teachings, we see a perfect example of what God did throughout the bible. He often tested what was in people hearts regardless of what they said they were loyal too. Jesus did this with the rich young ruler. Sadly, most people fail this test. And once their hearts turn away to a desire for wealth they become blinded by their sin and then run even harder after anything. In this time of recession many just want hope. They need a financial miracle. What perfect timing for the promises of riches to enter the church and get preached from the pulpit. The church becomes like a legal casino where you throw out some money and hope God will double your blessing. It is sad that people in the church are losing everything they have while leaders are sitting on millions.

So painfuljourney, Are you suggesting that inviting Mr. Harrison to speak when they did was manipulative on TPc's part, knowing that the reality of recession mixed with prosperity teaching would cause the hearers of Mr. Harrison to give more to the offering?

I wonder how much was received in the offering that day. I wonder how many sells Mr. Harrison had that day. I wonder how many monetary "honor" gifts were given that day.

The test you are suggesting is pretty simple, really- Mike and Cyndi: Go and sell everything you have, give the earnings to the poor and follow Jesus.

turningpointreject,

I apologize. I did not make myself really clear.

Bringing in a man who brags about himself while propping up money to be God was completely insensitive in a time of economic downfall. Not to mention something God hates. The saddest part is like someone else mentioned, people were captivated by this guy. Its clear that people are being destroyed because of lack of knowledge of what the bible TRULY says.

Wealth, fame and power are man's biggest weaknesses and if someone else promises us a road there, most peoples itching ears will quickly follow. Even Jesus was led by Satan into these same temptations demonstrating our absolute need to resist them. It has been preached that we are supposed to look DIFFERENT from the world. Even an athiest can see the fallacy in this car salesman's message. Why can't we as Christians.

The hardest thing about what is happening at TPC is realizing that people we trusted and loved are being used as the devils play thing and that others still there are being dragged in and convinced by His deceitful ways.

My 1st clue should have been when TPC started preaching money more than Christ.

J



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2009 11:46AM by TurningPointReject.

The church would do well at bringing teaching in from Dave Ramsey instead of Harrison. He teaches about getting out of debt and spending less than what you make. His is very biblical and doesn't tell you to repeat a verse 10x for forty days.

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Brokenhearted
Does anyone know how many people/families have left TP in the last few weeks? What about Deacons? Have any deacons voiced an opinion about what's going on. I know the elders wouldn't dare speak, but I've heard that at least three deacons have voiced a concern. Is this a canned response "yes, I have some concerns, but I'm waiting it out", or has anyone here spoken directly to a deacon that is seriously considering leaving?

Apparently SOMA students are now being told to ask questions. Is this a step in the right direction or is it a PR stunt?

I agree with M&M, if one at a time go, they can somewhat be ignored and dismissed, but if several people (elders, deacons, laymen) step up and say enough is enough, then perhaps there would be repentance, healing and true salvation.....perhaps.

We told our bible study group that we were leaving TP. There was a deacon in the group. But not sure about what they are thinking. We were asked from someone in the group why we were leaving and we told them our concerns. Hopefully that got them thinking and questioning things.

If you read the scripture below you can begin to see how far TPC has wandered from the truth.
1Tim 6:3-19 ...who think that godliness is a means to financial gain 6 But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. 8 But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. 9 People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
11 But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness. 12 Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when you made your good confession in the presence of many witnesses. 13 In the sight of God, who gives life to everything, and of Christ Jesus, who while testifying before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, I charge you 14 to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which God will bring about in his own time — God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.

17 Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. 18 Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. 19 In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life.

NEED WE SAY MORE?

Hi everyone,

The Worship Team experience at TPCC:

I have always loved music, my whole life and I consider it to be my spiritual gift from God. So, of course I want to give it back to Him and I decided to try out for the worship team with pastor cyndi. I went for my try out one day and I sang the songs they asked me to sing and they accepted me into the worship team "family".

We had practice Tuesday nights(as far as I can remember) and we met early before sunday services to do a quick run through again. It was a pretty nice group to be involved in at first but there were quickly problems I noticed that I beleive the Holy Spirit was showing me.

The thing that bothered me the most, that was hard not to recognize was the way Cyndi always made an "entrance"-while we were all there on time or early she would stroll in 5 or 10 minutes after we all got there and were ready like she was some sort of celebrity or VIP-as if!!! and everyone would have to wait for her. I don't feel that upset about this but I guess I feel like she purposly had to have all attention on her.

I also felt that she was not the best one for the job. There were many other average singers that could have taken her place easily and that was obvious to many. I am very advanced in music, not to brag, but after about 20 years of music singing, piano, guitar, and many performing arts groups that I was in I was so not impressed with Cyndi or that she said "God had placed" in the Worhsip Ministry at Turning Point. Music was not and is still not her forte (and she even admitted it herself) but she sure liked to be center of all attention every sunday. As for her teaching the music, well that was up to us to find our parts and learn them from others instead of her breaking them down for us like a music teacher should do, so that we are all on the same page, she just let us fend for ourselves and I fould that really ridiculous.

To me Cyndi is a attention hungry, non-gifted, wanna-be worhsip leader and it is a shame that people that have the talent and that want to give back their gift can't because the pastor is in the way of them doing what God has given them to offer up.

I also want to say that people that couldn't sing were on the worship team which in my opinion was odd because if there are try outs then why would Cyndi allow that? In my opinion people who just want to sing should do it as loud as they want to glorify the Lord but just not on stage with a mic infront of them. Everyone should sing and worship but there are people with certain gifts and that is where they should be placed in ministry-where they are gifted.

Now in no way am I saying the I was the one who should have been up there leading but I can guarantee I would have done a better job and sounded better too. I am not a power hungry person and I never wanted to be in a position in the church where God didn't place me-but with Cyndi as lead worshiper and Mike as her husband that would have never happened because I think Mike enjoys the fact that his wife is center of attention and that everyone has to see her on stage. It is some sort of enjoyment for him to have everyone know that they are in charge and in the spotlight all the time no questions asked.

Instead of being humble and stepping down from a leadership position Cyndi had to just become more and more in charge and that is the whole celebrity wannabe idea again that she so often portrays. I also want to comment on how Turning point leaders have become icons and idols to the people that attend TP because if you compare pictures of Cyndi and Mike form a few years ago to now, you will see some serious image changes in their clothes, hair, makeup, and to add to that in their attitudes too. I think they are taking it way too far over the edge and becoming very conceited and snobbish. It saddens me to see this and I think it is a bad thing for pastors to do. They are supposed to set the example not try to put on a fashion show every sunday on stage. It just seems everything is out of whack-what ever happened to moderation??? I think they have forgotten what the real purpose of this all is and they are so far gone that they are lost at sea now ready to capsize-taking the whole battleship down with them. Sadly enough.

Anyway, just to wrap it up, my experience was ok but opened my eyes to a lot of things that were hard to realize at the time but now it is so obvious what was happening and I am glad that I left the church because it was the best thing for me. I am glad they didn't have time to get their sharpened claws in me any further than they did because the deep wounds they gave me have been healed but it has taken a very long time for all of that to fade away and yes there are still some scars.

more to come. . .

-gifofsong