It was a junior Highish statement!

Quote
whatajoke
Can someone please come on here after the class and explain how Strategic Advance fits in with the kingdom of God. It only seems to fit in the kingdom of Tony and Mike. I have asked several times on here and no one has stepped up to explain. I believe that is because it does not make sense. Strategic Advance has done more to be divisive in the world than anyone on this forum calling TPWOC and acknowledging they are posting on here.

WAKE UP TURNING POINT BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE. YOUR HERO IS COMING. GOOD LUCK.

No one can come on here and defend it (Strategic Advance) because there is no reflective thought going on among those sitting under this false teaching taught by Tony and advocated by Mike. There is only lemming-like agreement of the students. If only Mike and Tony would step up and tell us why they persist in their unbiblical teachings, but they have a convenient cop-out in their "I won't defend myself for any reason" stance (which really means that they believe they don't need to answer to anyone; they're above that).

BUT THE TRUTH of the matter is that teaching people to chase after mammon as a means of advancing the kingdom of Christ is DANGEROUS. (Strategic advance is about plotting how to make money to advance the kingdom.) Jesus doesn't need our worldly strategies to advance His kingdom. He has His own strategies, and, like the Cross, they seem foolish to mortal minds, but they accomplish His ends and then all the glory goes where it belongs--to HIM, and HIM alone. Mike and Tony, God will not share HIS glory with you. Your strategies (ways) are not His strategies (ways). Ring a bell? It is written!

God may choose to bless someone with the ability to make money for His kingdom, but turning money-making into a seminar and a strategy is to push God's wisdom aside to promote our own "wisdom." The Bible has warned us about chasing after money. People get pierced through with sorrows, their faith shipwrecked. It's best to leave the wisdom of who should make money and who shouldn't to God. He knows our hearts; we do not.

Hey People of the Fourm,

So i know a lot of you have been rather hurt directly or indirectly by TPC, and you may be angery and confused. I know that it is very hurtfull for me to see you guys out of anger bashing my ex pastor. I still love him and will for awhile, reguardless of his motives and his heart i still thank him for trying to seek God. Although i believe he is misguided. I don't hate him or judge his heart. All i would say is that if you have anything to say that would be helpful to the benifit of others healing on this fourm please say it in a empathtic view. Knowing that we are all having a hard time with it.
Thanks Again
Conner.

pigsqueel:

Your post is very one sided.

You have attempted to shift the responsibility for what has happened to the people hurt by the church rather than recognize what is wrong with the leadership.

What has Pastor Mike done wrong?

What responsibility does he have regarding what has gone wrong and the people that have been hurt?

Leaving quietly may suit the needs of the leadership, but that's a choice of each person to make individually.

Paul didn't remain quiet when he saw something wrong. Read Galatians.

John the Baptist wasn't exactly quiet about the sin and corruption he saw either.

Thankfully the overwhelming majority of churches are positive places of worship and anyone that leaves Turning Point can easily find another church where they will be welcomed to fellowship, worship and study with other believers.

The issue raised here isn't belief in God, but rather continuing to submit to the leadership at Turning Point.

God isn't restricted to one church.

Most Protestant churches typically have democratically elected boards and pastors are directly accountable to those boards for their behavior.

They can be fired, disciplined and their salaries and compensation must be approved.

Most Protestant churches also have annually reviewed and approved budgets, which disclose in detail all salaries, compensation and expenses paid out from church funds.

When a church doesn't have these safeguards it is easy for corruption to set in and abuses to take place.

If you have not seen such a published and audited annual budget you really don't know where all the money goes at a church.

I strongly suggest that you think about the "disagreements" you have with Pastor Mike, rather than attempt to place blame on anyone here for also disagreeing with the way things are run at Turning Point.

Hello Andy.

Before responding to your post I want to thank you for bringing up these issues.


For those reading this who may be tempted to attack his character I would like to say that Andy has an incredible heart for God. He is also one of my better friends and I appreciate him coming on here to ask everyone about this.

Your main issues with people posting on this forum are

1.Accountability

2 Hurting New Believers/non Christians



1. You have a point that putting your name onto the forum is a good idea. Although there may be some people who have specific reasons for not putting there name, in general I agree. If you post something totally off base and your name is on it then people will confront you on what you say. I agree with you on this one so just to let everyone know, my name is J esse M. If anyone thinks I have posted anything on here that is false or wrong, you are most likely my friend on face book so send me a message. Most of my posts have been to ask questions and help me decide if I am on board with the vision of the church or not.


2. Hurting new believers / non Christians

first I would ask, is what is stated here true? Does mike own a massive house? Does he consider himself an apostle? Are there serious reasons to disagree with the apostleship movement? Is the church becoming authoritarian? Does mike have any real accountability?

Most of this is true and I don’t think that Leaders at turning point would dispute this and they are not ashamed of it in any way. While at turning point we were told that we can and should be able to explain why Mike has that house and not be embarrassed of it. I don’t think at Soma they are taught to be afraid of talking about mike being an Apostle. They also admit that most churches don’t believe in the apostolic ministry.

If most of these issues are true and those on this forum are not lying then, should they be responsible for covering up and hiding all of these problems. Is the fact that people go on here writing how they are concerned with the lack of accountability the problem or is the lack of accountability the problem . I don’t think that Turning Point is embarrassed with the format the elders have. Those on this forum are not bringing up things that are hidden. They are discussing the open policy of the church.


However, you still have made a good point. I pray that no one who is considering becoming a Christian would be turned away by what is written here. You also stated that the heart of those on this forum is to prevent people from getting hurt by attending Turning Point. I don’t know the answer to what you bring up. However have you met anyone who was turned away from Christ because of this forum? I have personally met people who were turned away from Christ because of Mikes house and other issues.

Most non Christians are very aware that churches have major problems with sex, power and money. TV shows constantly make fun of Televangelists. While attending high school many of my friends would make jokes about pastors being in it only for money. I don’t think very many non-Christians would be surprised by what they read here. However what they will be surprised to hear is the different testimonies people have of God touching there life despite what has gone on. Many people who post here have stated that Mike is a very Godly man and that God has done powerful things through Turning Point. Most would agree they are not writing because they hate Turning Point but because they love it. They desire it to change and avoid major problems.

I don’t know if it does more good or harm to post on here. When I discovered this forum I decided to post to help discover the truth and think through these issues.

However this forum wouldn’t exist if it were not for the problems at RLC. Even if only 10% of what is written on that forum is true I am thankful to God that it is on the internet to prevent people from going there. That church clearly has massive problems and I am sure even you would agree that it is good that they have posted on there. The website has provided healing to those who have been hurt by tony and I don’t think that a non Christian would be turned away from God when he hears testimonies of people recovering from a messed up church. If you used to go to a destructive church and were abused spiritually , would telling of your recovery to a non-Christian jeopardize his salvation?

From reading the rcl forum it has some shocking similarities to Turning Point. I think that this is what encouraged many people to post on this website. They were afraid of what it would become.

Also

There are a variety of people writing on this forum. Most give Turning Point the benefit of the doubt and bring up genuine issues. However not everyone who writes here is perfect, me included. When I write I try to have others check my heart to see if I am writing out of bitterness or simply throwing out false accusations. Just like you have prompted us to not be judgmental of mikes heart (I agree) I would advise people reading this forum not judge the writers of this forums heart. Many writing here have been hurt by churches in the past and just like some of the posts on this website they are far from perfect.

However If you think anything I have written is unfair or wrong I would love for you to contact me about it and for me to have a chance to repent to you and everyone on this forum. I am sure that all who post here would also welcome the same feedback.

--- I don’t feel I have any personal issues with mike. I have tried to direct my questions or statements at the beliefs and policies of the church, not mikes character. I am not questioning his heart and am sure that it is pure.

Conner your a red coat and I don't trust you for nothing.You are on the Muscle Mans favorite friends list who is a turning point false teacher (name it claim it, prosperity teacher ) Are you still attending TP Skagit valley . And does Chicken feathers dave Luster still support all the false Teachers like you do. I have heard your a nice guy!

Northwest why are you still attending TPWOC and are you still supporting the false teachers?

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pigsqueel
Hello everybody, my name is Andy Istvan. I have attended Turning Point for about 4 years now. I am aware that Turning Point just like every other church has flaws. I know by personal experience that the love of God is at Turning Point more than any other church I have ever attended. Some of you that have posted on this site believe in God but you have expressed your hurt from Turning Point. Growing up in the church almost my whole life I learned that my relationship with God is most important and after that it’s the salvation of others.

Another thing I have been taught is that when you leave a church, you leave it quietly. If you need to vent out your frustrations, you vent it out on you close friends and family, that’s what they are there for. I think personally writing a bunch of words that may come across as bitter on a website for the whole world to see hurts the Christian church as a whole and in some cases it could cause someone to never come to know God. If I was a non Christian and I read some of the posts on this site, here are some of the questions that would be raised in my mind.

1. How can a God that can’t even keep his church in order, save me from eternal damnation?
2. If all these churches are bad, which one is good?

I have really close friends that have posted on this site and some of the things they brought up to me were personal issues with Pastor Mike. When I asked if they went and set up a meeting with Pastor Mike for these things to be explained to them. They said no, in my opinion, if you don’t know someone’s heart behind their actions, you can’t go about accusing them for their actions. I love Pastor Mike and I know his heart on a lot of the personal issues listed in some of your posts. He’s not a bad guy like a lot of you make him out to be.

First of all one of the issues with Pastor Mike brought up on this forum is his accountability in Turning Point. Have you ever thought about your accountability about some of the things you write on this site. Who’s holding you accountable when you won’t even post your name and choose to remain anonymous? When I worked at Pastor Mike’s house doing some landscaping, working for my brothers landscaping company which got paid from Pastor Mike with no discounts, I had the opportunity to talk to him and the rest of his family on a daily basis. While working there he shared with me his heart on a lot of personal issues and I know that one of the biggest issues brought up about Pastor Mike is money. Pastor Mike and his wife Cindy started Turning Point out of their house over 10 years ago and Pastor Mike was delivering pizza for a living while doing other odd jobs that I can’t remember.

Just in the past few years Pastor Mike and Cindy started an interior design company with some of the other people in the church and they have also been investing in real estate. As far as I am concerned Pastor Mike and Cindy are hard working people just like you and I. When we talked about their business and the real estate that they have invested in, they began to tell us that their number one reason why they have started investing was so that they wouldn’t have to take a paycheck from the church anymore. Their heart is for the people that don’t know God and that extra money that they wouldn’t be taking would go to helping people and advancing the kingdom of God.

I realize that the main reason why most of you have posted on here, is that you feel like you are saving people from going to Turning Point and being hurt. I don’t know if you have considered this yet but maybe some of the words written on the forum can really affect a lot of new believers or people that don’t believe in God to either quit believing in God or choosing at that point to never believe in God no matter how much evidence there is that he is real.

Most people at Turning Point are aware that their church is not perfect just like every other church. I personally have disagreements that I won’t disclose on this forum, but I just make sure I am aware of those things and that if for some crazy reason Turning Point goes totally downhill, I am alright with that and I will go to a new church.

If all of you can sincerely say that you love God and you love people, really take my words into consideration because there are people out there reading these posts that can live the rest of their lives apart from God. I would not wish that upon anybody and to be honest it sickens me to think that I have the ability to keep people from spending eternity with our heavenly father by the words I choose to say on a website. My heart breaks for the people that may have already read some of these posts and have chosen to never believe in God because of what they read.

You have been taught to be quiet when you leave a church?? yes but who does that help? That definitely did NOT help me when I left TP in 2006. I'm glad there is a forum here but I know I can talk to people who have been hurt by this church, and for the people who will be. I Do also remember reading that a few people actually TALKED TO PASTOR MIKE about the problems and were kicked to the side! So dont say that no one has talked to him about the problems. I'm hurt by what you are saying, think if you were on our side.

Wow, pigsqueel! You come on here with a name like ptsqueel which basically mocks the people on here who have been hurt or whose lives have been affected by the manipulation and spiritual abuse of TPWOC or RLC. Your name and tone says it all. You are misguided and very brainwashed and I hope you can see it and come out of it soon. Pigsqueel, wow I am blown away you would come on here attempting to speak sensibly ande as a christian while underhandedly you are mocking hurting and abused people. You are perfect for TPWOC or RLC. These are the type of people they are retaining. You are now officially in a cult.

And part of the problem pigsqueel is that you are dealing and working with your emotions while we on this forum are dealing with very real scriptural and theological issues that are abusive.