From what I can tell over my 5 years with Clover Creek/New Song/Crossing is that the leaders never had an original thought. Everything was/is plagerised. That's why I think Catalyst is a lot like YWAM: Brian Brennt and his co-horts were heavily involved with YWAM and all of a sudden are not. It seems like Catalyst is City Central's version of DTS and outreach. A copy.

Myspace...all the people you mentioned and more were deeply admired and probably still are. I really hope your daughter is as your husband says. If not, she'll begin to seperate herself from you; blaming you for sin in her life. If you don't believe me, ask my parents how I treated them.

LearningPoint...Brian Brennt sees himself and his family as "anointed". He's said as much. I have listened to some of his more recent sermons and they're extremely fragmented, as if his mind is not clear and focused. He goes on for minutes and never mentions a single scripture, although he says he's going to. When he finally gets around to cracking open a Bible it's momentary at best.

If you're interested, one of the Catalyst teachers has a blog at tumblr called "Hunger and Thirst". I don't know the url.

Still praying...

cgj

Ah! The anointed trump card!

It's interesting that the word christ means "anointed." Jesus warned us that there would be false christs (ones falsely claiming to be anointed).

He also said that where the vultures gather, there the carcasses will be--the spiritually dead false christs (carcasses) and their followers (vultures).

YIKES!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2009 12:39PM by LearningPoint.

Excellent insights above, again, thank you. I agree with them all due to the fact that hubby and I visited the church at Tacoma Conv. Center on Sunday evening, June 7th, 2009. Notes Brian Brennt spoke from were "compiled from Bob Jones~The prophet. Brennt did not pray before he began and didn't get to scripture or open his bible or mention verses for a long time, at least 40 minutes went by.
We asked someone who Brennt was "under" and the answer we got was "I don't know." We were told Brennt has a
"relationship" with Loren Cunningham of YWAM. The words above say otherwise and I don't know how what that means? At what level is this relationship? I have a relationship with a wonderful Vineyard Pastor but I haven't seen him or talked to him in years, just via Christmas cards. Is this the level of relationship Brennt has with Cunningham?
I listened to a random podcast of Brian Brennt. It was taped about 6 months ago. I am going to hope he had a bad cold or bad hayfever because he sniffed his nose about every 30 seconds. That's just something I noticed and hope this behavior is not due to anything else.
As of yesteday,6/25/09, daughter says No tickets have been purchased for Africa, no dates have been set, yet the cost of training is still over $3,500.00. She said The Freedom manual Brennt wrote was given to them as an "option" to go through-yet the Catalyst Website infers that these books are the ones that will be used throughout the course. Well, let's be clear about it, are they changing the syllabus now or is this wiffily-waffley-mush-fly-by-the- seat-of-our pants-stuff?? I have never received a telephone call back from City Central. Maybe I'll call again today and leave another detailed message for a return call.

Myspace...things could change and probably will if something is not working out to their liking. When I was there we heard the words "God has changed His mind" to explain why we were stopping something that was sooooo "of the Lord" (but a flop) and beginning something completely different.

New Song City Central is non-denominational (always has been). They were supposedly accountable to the eldership at Clover Creek before the two churches parted ways. From what I can tell Brian Brennt is accountable to no one. I have no idea what kind of leadership they have in place. They used to have each pastor/elder/staff person listed on their website, but not anymore.

City Central was, it seemed, tight with Loren Cunningham and YWAM. He's spoken at CC and Brian Brennt et.al. have taught at various DTSs, but in recent months they don't seem involved with each other at all.

I really don't think the Freedom Manual is "optional", regardless of what they say. It's integral to their teaching on "freedom", whether they call it Jesus Ministry, Original Design, or any other title they've used over the past years.

cgj

I have been investigating this church for some time. Here are some things that I have found. City Central has changed their name and/or come under several different names. City Central, New Song, Revalesio Misistry, Clover Creek, The Crossing, Destiny Church, Timothy, City Central Records, Sozo, Business Compter Training Institute (BCTI Gig Harbor/Tacoma). They do not have a building (many churches don't). Have moved several times, using at least two other church buildings, and now located at the Tacoma Convention Center. It is in question as to why they left their other sites.

Catalyst is a "school" to teach "freedom". Please note this was targeted to those under 30. Brian Brennt and Mike Riches "Freedom Resource Manual" is a spin off from Neil T. Andersons "Freedom Papers". Both talk about the 7 steps of deliverance and the onion layering effect. You must peel away the layers of sin to truely be free.

Not only is there a teaching of generational sin, strongholds, insecurity, rebellion, disbelief, and religious spirits but many times what is normal Christian growth and maturing is blamed on demonic influence and possession; that a Christian can be demonicly possessed.
The church and its leaders are not to be questioned because they have spiritual authority. Having Spiritual Authority equates one with being an adult Christian. All others are children and need teaching. People are kept busy with classes, meetings, mentoring, descipling, being descipled. It is important to be part of a "Ministry". When someone first attends they are swarmed with friends which becomes a control mechanism, because they know if they leave the church they will loose all those friendships that have become so dear to them. People in the church are strongly discouraged from having contact with those who have left. There has also been reference to the church as "the" body of Christ.

This church also affiliates itself with other reputable organizations. YWAM, Youth for Christ, Young Life, Call2All. This gives the appearance of credibility.

I have much more. But for those with loved ones in this church, Pray for them to see the truth, Pray for all the people in the church because when something like this is revealed it can leave many broken people. Stay close to your loved ones. Do not give up. Keep contact of all kinds; phone, email, facebook, myspace, snail mail (they have your love in their hands), what ever it takes. Know your scripture. DO NOT PREACH. This will isolate you from them. Share all the good things God is doing in your life. Above all LOVE them, no matter what. And for myspacethirdbase, you gave your daughter a foundation and nothing can change that.

Simeon, thank you for your words of encouragement for familes with loved ones at City Central. Your assessment of the spiritual abuse that takes place there is spot on.

City Central (formerly New Song then New Song City Central), Destiny City Church (formerly Clover Creek), and The Crossing are seperate churches (NS and the Crossing were "birthed" out of Clover). New Song met on Saturday in the same building as Clover Creek and targeted high school/college/young adult, starting about 10 years ago. The Crossing started as an outreach to those in need, with a church service added a few years ago. When New Song stopped meeting in Spanaway and moved to downtown Tacoma they changed their name to New Song City Central. When Clover Creek, then pastored by Mike Riches, got the "word" that they were to also move to downtown Tacoma, they changed their name to Destiny City Church. Revalesio was supposed to be the "international" arm of Clover Creek/New Song ministry (it started up around the time the Jesus Ministry Conferences began...'02 or '03 I think). For whatever reason (we had left by this time), Revalesio was completely turned over to New Song. BCTI was a business run by a couple of men who were tight with Mike Riches and Brian Brennt. BCTI is now no more beacuse of fraudulent business practices. One former owner is still tight with Mike Riches and I'm not sure about the other. As for Sozo, Timothy, CC Rcoring, etc....I have no idea. Like I said before, if something is a flop they just get a "word" and change courses. HTH.

cgj

Thank you, so much, cgi & simeon! You cannot imagine how much your written words mean to me. You are both bring a great deal of clarity to this topic and you have credibility. I can tell that just by how you've expressed yourselves here. I have not posted in a while, but my daughter is still there and I am experiencing much of what you have written. I did receive a call from a girl named Alyssia who is Graham's wife-don't know last name. She made it real clear that she wanted me to feel "completely comfortable" with my daughter there and that if I had any theological questions, she'd be more than happy to have a pastor get in touch with me. She wasn't about to get into it on the phone. I must say, she was good...very, very good...if you know what I mean. I never clearly pinned her down as to the YWAM connection but she wanted to reassure me that.."they" have a "positive" relationship with YWAM and that in fact, Marc Anderson of Call2All was there speaking that night. Well, I think Marc Anderson and Call2All are an entirely different thing. Alyssia was so "crafty" and put spins on all my questions that I never really got the truth...she just wanted me to be happy. My husband was on the phone too, he heard every word and felt a lot more comfortable. He directly asked me Are you going to believe the girl on the phone or not. I told him I'm still having a difficult time with all of this.
We hardly hear from our daughter, maybe every 3-4 days. I believe one of the strategies is to keep these kids very, very very busy......all the time...early a.m....to the late night hours...She has posted pictures of all her new friends and says she "frikkin loves these people!." As of a few days ago, about 1/2 of the 25 Catalyst Kids are 1/2 short of the money they need to buy plane tickets to Africa, our daughter being one of them. The deadline for $2,000.00 was July 8th. Someone there gifted our girl $700.00. I think they keep extending the date. Keep in mind, any monies given to her by anyone down here is funneled through our church. We are a 501C so legally if one gives $, they can state where to send it. I am being transparent so feel free to write to me at any time.
Thank you for the encouraging words to NOT give up..I won't!!!! Thank you, again!
myspacethirdbase in Calif

Myspace...I just discovered that City Central is no longer having any Sunday services. Has your daughter mentioned why they would stop meeting as a church? Very surprising.

As for YWAM and Call2All, I know one of their pastors (worship) and his wife are in DTS in Perth, Australia. He attended a Call2All conference (Tokyo?), but I don't know how close he is to any of thier leadership. The way he and his wife describe it, they've gone to YWAM Perth as an extension of the "international" ministry of City Central. It seems that originally they were to be on staff but were convinced to go through DTS.

cgj

Good Morning cgj :) I don't know anything about stopping Sunday Services at City Central. I did go to their website and this is what I copied & pasted to place right before you all....
We no longer meet for Sunday Services
Click Here for a calendar of events
I have no idea what this means, but will ask my daughter about this new direction. RE: Africa for these 25 kids, many did NOT have the full balance of funds to go. Our daughter told us "they" drained the Catalyst account so they could purchase the plane tickets. Now as money comes in from these kids, they are to "pay" catalyst back.
In my opinion, Ron Blue, Larry Burkett or Davy Ramsey would not like this form of money manipulation. I feel a huge tool for today's kids is to live on a budget, get out of debt., and don't borrow if you don't have the money.....but heck..that's a whole different topic. I just don't agree with the way Catalyst went about going forward in buying tickets to Africa when the money "really" wasn't there. If the deadline was July 8th, and the money wasn't there, then Maybe The Lord is saying...wait..or no..or don't go.
Again, I truly appreciate your posts and thought. Have a blessed week to all those reading this. :)

I have been reading and following this since it started and finally feel the need to pipe up and share. I was a part of New Song for many years, almost all the way back to when it started. I do feel as though when it started it was with a pure heart, however over time it has transformed into something else. I finally left in the spring of 2008 for some personal reasons, both related and not related to the church. The thing that finally was the straw the broke this camel's back so to speak was that I had struggled for years with an addiction. I was still holding down a decent job but it was really effecting other area's of my life. I had sought help, got prayer many times and every time was left feeling like I was just rebellious because I couldn't stop this specific thing. Well as time went on of course it got worse, and I finally sought help outside the church in a 12 step program. Well it turns out the the leaders of New Song feel that it is a cult and that it isn't okay for me to go there, and that freedom prayer should just cure me. I am not saying the power of prayer doesn't work, however for this alcoholic I needed something else as well. So after that and some other things that happened I left, not under good circumstances. I lost all my "friends" and support, at the same time I was trying to get sober. I now have 15 months sober with the help of 12 step programs and couldn't get 15 days with their "freedom prayer". I was basically banished from the church, although they would never say it. At the same time I started seeking treatment for my addiction I started going to therapy, with a christian therapist but she doesn't advertise as one. I had people ask if I was still saved or not. I was so hurt by this thoughtless and narrow minded thinking. It was as though just because I had left New Song I was now going to hell. I had major problems with that. I have since by choice cut off anyone else who might have stayed my friend but was still going there. I could go on and on about the abuse of power there, and I truly feel it is a cult. As someone who left recently and has people I still know there I don't hesitate to call it that. I heard that Brian Brennt and his family is moving to Kona this week, so I wonder if that is not why they are not having services sunday night anymore. As far as what happened with Catalyst I am not at all surprised but definatly sad to hear that, because when I first heard about it I had a bad feeling in my stomach. It is a dangerous place and I can not understand how people can still be going there. It does seem to be on it's way out, with people leaving and things falling apart. My only hope and prayer is for those other people like myself, who have felt so badly abused spiritually that they can come to some place of reconciliation. I am still struggling with what I believe now, whether I ever want to go to a church again or trust the authority there. I had put everything into that church from when I was 16 to when I was almost 25 and I feel so betrayed now. I do feel that the leaders, at least some of them are knowingly deceiving those in the flock. I wish there was a way to stop it, but all those of us on the outside can do is pray. If you have family there, or friends I say just pray. I am very grateful I got out when I did, but it is going to take along time before I ever want anything to do with a church again.