Hopeful1: It is depressing to feel so alone. My husband and I were depressed together for weeks and we felt so isolated. We also questioned the basis for our beliefs, but our starting point was that God and the Bible were right and WE had gone wrong somewhere (multiple somewheres!). Why do we believe what we believe? We took EVERYTHING we thought we knew to be true and tested it with Scripture. We consulted several commentaries and listened to many preachers (radio, on-line, podcasts). The "Grace Awakening" tape series by Chuch Swindoll was like good food and drink to our spirits. We also talked with others. We talked A LOT. In Malachi 3:13-17 God's people complain that their obedience had meant nothing as they see the wicked prosper. "At that time those who feared the LORD spoke to one another. The LORD took notice and listened. So a book of remembrance was writeen before Him for those who feared Yaweh and had high regard for His name. 'They will be mine,' says the Lord of Hosts, 'a special possession on the day I am preparing. I will have compassion on them as a mand has compassion on his son who serves him. " I know that was written to the Israelites, but it gave me great comfort in knowing a) I *could* talk about my/our experiences and how we'd been hurt, and b) God had not abandoned me and left me to myself. In reality, I had turned my back on God to gain the praise of humans.

It's very perceptive of you to say that "promise of freedom causes critical faculties to disappear". That may very well be true. As I think about it, it was very enticing have the possibilities of ALL your struggles disappearing being a mere prayer away. A magic pill of sorts. Very microwave mentality. But really attractive! I remember talking with a woman who was angry because she tought that if she went through all the classes, all the prayers, confessed, confessed and the confessed some more that all her marital problems would resolve. She said, "I thought that if I did this everything would be alright." Of course it wasn't because she was looking to the conference, the teachings and the prayer time to be her saviour. She was worshiping Jesus Ministry, not Jesus Christ. We stop pursuing the knowledge of Christ and instead pursue and idol...no wonder our discernment goes to mush!

Please don't discard Jesus because of Mike Riches. Jesus is the treasure.

cgj

Hmmm...a few typos on my last post...not sure how to edit. Ah well...hope you can read through my mistakes!!

cgj

sawdust and cgj, thank you for your words of encouragement. I am finding the thought of church very difficult at the moment. I am not sure how much I will be able to trust pastors in the future not to be led off on some new fad. I also find it difficult to accept the attitude amongst leadership that submission to authority means unthinking questioning of anything that is taught, and that any questions raised are tantamount to rebellion.

Ahhhh..."submission" and "rebellion". Sounds like your church leaders have swallowed the Jesus Ministry kool-aid and are lovin' the power trip. Now I don't want you to think I'm saying all authority is bad. Scripture talks about authority (parents, government, spiritual), so it exists and is something we need to grasp correctly. *Godly* pastors who preach the gospel and challenge us with truth have the authority to do so...it's their calling and sometimes it hurts. When we ignore truth we are indeed rebelling against God by following self-made "truths". All that to say "authority" and "rebellion" are terms/concepts used in scriptures and it is our responsibility to learn about them correctly. Buuuutttt....I know how Mike Riches throws around those words and I know how he defines them, and I think you've represented his views very well in your last post. It SHOULD be difficult to accept because it's nothing short of spiritual abuse. He is teaching that whatever he or a leader says, goes...and if you disagree you either need to repent of your rebellion and accept his "word" or be ostracized from your church home. It destroys church families.

Also, please realize that there are good, loving, Godly pastors out there. They aren't perfect, but they are trustworthy. I know how you feel...I didn't trust pastors for years and projected onto good men and women all the feelings I had towards Mike et al. I've since realized that since I don't have it all 100% correct noone else will, either. There's room for grace and flexibility. If I see someone actively pursuing God, whether they're mature or immature in their faith, I rest in knowing that those who seek truth will find it (Matt 7) and that we're running the same race. That doesn't let me off the hook, though. You mentioned being wary of following fads. That's good and right...you should be wary of fads whether inside or outside the church. We all should. 2 Cor 2:11, 1 Pet 5:8, Mark 13 are examples of Scripture telling us to be alert, aware, watchful, not ignorant. HTH, and I pray you find a group of believers who can encourage, strengthen and sharpen you.

cgj

I should make it clear that what I said above about authority was not laid out overtly - this is what I have perceived only and I might be wrong about some of it and reading too much into things. I know what you say about pastors is right cgj, but it does not stop my feelings being the way they are, at the moment anyway.

Hopeful1 - Don't ignore 'red flags' that the Holy Spirit gives you. If something doesn't seem right, search the scriptures for truth regarding the subject. Also search other church leaders writings. Current deceptions and lies are just repackaged old ones resurfacing, and people of God have been dealing with them since the begining. Looking back at my experience at the old Clover Creek, initially things sounded correct, then I would sense 'red flags' that should have caused me to search for truth, but in an attempt to keep hope in what I wanted to believe alive, I ignored them and checked my brain in at the door. I told myself that it was rebellious to question, and besides, I wanted to be a part of this big new thing that was happening (which is really no new thing at all). Once the Lord finally broke through to me, I was ashamed at how far from what I claimed was right and true I had strayed. I felt like God was speaking directly to me through Gal 1:6-7. All of this to say please don't ignore what you know to be true in the scriptures, in order to preserve something that is false. Truth withstands scrutiny, be as the Bereans were. I truely feel for what you are going through, it's not easy but stand strong in Christ.

Here is Mike Riches version of the CC split story... [www.etpv.org]

There are a couple of points to be made about these churches:
1. Their doctrine is based on rehashed other false doctrine.
2. They have been prophesied about.


1. These churches originally started out good. I attended CCBF for several years, and truly believed the Holy Spirit was there.
Then, there started to be an infiltration of false doctrine. CCBF had recommitted itself to doing God's work, and that made them a target for the enemy. What followed was a search for tools to help them deal with spiritual matters. This is where the wheels came off. They fell prey to false doctrine. In CCBF's case, it happened to be Neil T. Anderson's doctrine of deliverance. This doctrine manifested itself as "Living Free/Freedom Prayer/Jesus Ministry...". There was not the doctrinal discipline to see if this was a good thing to get involved in. They were searching for answers and grasped at something new. Most of the original text material had Neil T's logo on it (photo copies).
Red Light.
The ambition of the leadership led them away from the true calling of what a pastor is meant to be, a shepherd to his flock, a protector of the faith and a practitioner of doctrinal discipline. Now I believe that they are posturing for the N.A.R. C. Peter Wagner's New Apostolic Reformation.
Do your research, be informed.


2. This sometimes comes as a surprise to the faithful, but it should not. After having come out of this fellowship, and seen how off course they were, it has made me both a more mature Christian and a better scriptural scholar. These are good things.
The Bible is full of warnings of how the elect shall be deceived, wolves in sheep’s clothing, many coming in Jesus' name, false doctrine and so on.
You sometimes get blindsided by what should be safe.
Don't be afraid to get back in the game, that's what the enemy wants, so his objectives have been achieved. Learn how to discern for yourself if doctrine is sound or not. Learn what the Bible says; about false leaders, false doctrine, how there is going to be a great falling away, the deception in the church. Don't be one that perishes for lack of knowledge.


We are now located in New Zealand, doing what God has called us to do, working missionaries in the Pacific. CCBF leadership had told us that we were damaged goods that God could not use. How wrong they were.

If you get burned by one of these churches, and there will be many, don't let that keep you from fulfilling the call God has on your life.
God is much bigger and stronger than them.

WARNING
Some new information, these influences are spreading. The group that is probably most vulnerable are the young and less mature Christians, which have not developed the discernment to defend against such attacks. So this is meant to be a starting place for parents of and some discerning young people that may be contemplating getting involved in a group that will “bring something new and powerful” to their spiritual walk with the Lord.
Where this particular influence has surfaced is through several groups that are heavily influenced by the Third Wave and New Apostolic Reformation.
Do the research. The former leadership of New Song is now involved with Call2All which is involved with YWAM. YWAM has been known to embrace many questionable doctrines. A good site to look for information on YWAM is Deception in the Church. [www.deceptioninthechurch.com]
I don’t know that much about Call2All, but if YWAM is involved with them, it’s enough to warrant further investigation. Again, I urge you to do the research, know where these groups are getting their material from, what they teach, what they believe. There is such a subtle shift that if not sniffed out, will cause damage to the generation that we are supposed to be gatekeepers for.

I'm very new on this forum and I chose to not use my real name as my username for my safety. I attended new song for a few years up until 2007. I was involved in everything, I even lived in a girls house from the church. Everything that people are saying about this place is true, they tried to distance me from my family, it seemed like everything that wasn't church oriented was a sin. I went from happy to severely depressed after every service. My family and other friends tried to get me to leave but I started becoming scared, the church had complete control over my life and I felt trapped. No church should ever do this to you. Needless to say I finally got up the courage to leave and move back in with my parents temporarilly. Even though I'm happier now and I live with my best friend now, new song still haunts me to this day and I've had to go into therapy to help me with it. If anyone you care for and love is involved in this church, don't ignore any red flags that are there. I ignored them for 2 years. My advice to anyone is to stay away from this church!