This is an interesting topic...

I went to New Song Church before it was "City Central" when they were still meeting at Clover Creek off of 176th... I left for some of the reasons mentioned here... and most who have left New Song will say these same things about it.

I was really good friends with GabeVW before I felt God had called me away from New Song... Turns out that New Song has a way of making people think that those who leave are walking away from God (more in a subliminal way)... BUT... I can tell anyone here that GabeVW IS a man in search of Truth who is very loving and has a great character (although I haven't read his major spam of posts in great detail)... No one can be certain that they are following what is truth until they are in the Word searching for themselves...

this leads me to another subject... Paul wrote that you should not just listen to your leaders and follow blindly but rather search for yourself with the Holy Spirit to guide you... At New Song there were plenty of times where I would say something that the Bible said in its context and the response would be "thats not what Brian Brennt says"... Not only myself but other friends of mine who walk with the Lord also put this to the test and the result was getting expelled from the Church (luckily i was able to leave on my own terms peacefully)

There were many times where the Word was read and a subject was formed that was a huge leap from the context of the Scripture... This is where i started to feel out of place... I was a leader... I was on a prayer team... I was part of a mens group lead by Chris Hippe... but i was also in the Word every day for HOURS a day and would sometimes lock myself in my room to worship and pray for hours... For some reason i had a hard time with yelling at the devil instead of having personal quality time with the Father... and it seemed that it was all about the "power" and not about the LOVE that we as believers need to be showing everyone with everything that we do...

To anyone in search of Truth and Life PLEASE pray and read the Word for yourself and do NOT follow a man... but follow Christ and pray to a Father who loves you.

To GaveVW... I love you bro and my prayers are that you are following Christ and no man... Listen to the Holy Spirit...

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Anonfornow
I don't know if anyone will get this message as it's been a year since this forum was published. I used to be a member of this church. I'll describe some things and let you decide if it warrants cult status.


1.) Typical denominations are typically regarded as "religious".

2.) There are classes taught. Some classes can't be reached unless you take previous classes. For example you can't participate in a music class untill take the classes known as Freedom 1 and Freedom 2.

3.) Pastor frequently builds sermons on what he supposedly heard from God.

4.) Members are taught to hear the voice of God.

5.) Very involved use of small groups and hierarchy. You are taught to submit to the authority of group leaders.

6.) Prayer often occurs in groups. Various members of the group attempt to hear the voice of God to listen for a sin issue in one of the group members lives.

7.) After a sin issue is discovered the individual must pray loudly to "break" the sin.

8.) Intense pressure to be involved in church activities. Lack of involvement is considered a sin known as "passivity"

9.) Intense pressure to live with other members of the church.

10.) Church activities take priority over other considerations in a persons life. Intense pressure to sacrifice time for the church.


I left this church because the pressure to move out of my house was too great. I was also asked to do favors like help a group leader by picking up his yard. I was looked down upon for not sacrificing time to go evangelizing at the nearby high school. I hope this helps you out.

Everything here is true...

although i never felt "pressured" to serve... i always felt that serving was a part of being a Believer... as written in James where faith is shown in action... Likewise, serving is something that should be done in love and is a form of "prof" so-to-speak, that we are of the Lord.

"Passivity" is a household word at New Song... and if you are not involved with ministry you are labeled as such.

I can partly be thankful of such pressure because i was in the Word constantly and i feel the study is the reason why i was able to have eyes to see...

I was one of the guys who lived in a house full of guys (moved in on my own accord to try to be "more spiritual")... in fact, it was a duplex formerly known as the "Salad Bar" later known as the "Potters House"... At the time it was kind of a prestigious rank to live in a house of 8 guys who all went to New Song... accountability is one thing but it should NEVER be about A church or A man... only about God

WOW I stumbled upon this thread looking for something entirely different! I saw Brian Brennt's name and it brought back so many memories. My heart just grieves reading all these posts. I don't think they have a clue what heartache and confusion they have caused.

For so long I thought I was the only "defect" or black sheep Lol, though not a laughing matter really. My story resembles many in this thread. My spirit began to stir and trouble me (back in '99!) so I dug deeper and deeper into the Word. Thankfully! I loved Jesus with every ounce I had in me .. I was following my Lord and Saviour and wanting to please Him and serve Him in all ways I could. However, I realized I was starting to follow man (a religion) who was impossible to please! My joy turned to burden, depression sank in. I'll never forget just agonizing in spirit over what to do .. lying in bed feeling literally as if a 500 lb man was on me. The Lord answered my cry for help, and peace flooded my soul .. I got up feeling light as a feather and never looked back. I knew leaving was the right path to take. As a part of the leadership team the bar was always raised higher, no matter how you served your socks off. Taking care of my own family apparently wasn't of the Lord or meaningful to them. I was to soley devote to the mission .. their mission. Pressure pressure, more was never enough. Then the whole demonic posession deal became far too creepy and unsettling. They looked at me (near the end) and treated me like I was posessed when I questioned them biblically or didn't follow "their plan" .. I was in satanic rebellion! It became so about "their ministry" and their exclusiveness ... everyone else was a "main stream believer" who was going down the wide road and didn't have the truth they did. All they preached was "freedom" but until I left I never realized how in bondage I was. It took me a long time before I stepped back into "church" again... and heaven forbid leadership of any kind. What I found at my new church truly liberated me. Joy returned and the healing road began. I will never forget Brian and Christy and many of the leaders .. I still see some of the core group today. Blessed to have had these lessons I believe, wiser smarter now. I learned A TON from them. Good and bad. Praying for Jenna and Chris Hippe ... they are genuine kind people who I believe love the Lord. I don't have any clue what goes on within their church, but from what I've heard they are beginning to understand and comprehend the wreckage that's happened. Perhaps the blinders are coming off, they are humbling themselves before God truly seeking Him, His will, not "their own mininisty their own exclusive truth." So this is perhaps a bit cathartic for me to write, my prayers for healing for those that still walk wounded. The enemy of our soul loves the trail of blood ... So forgive quickly and allow Jesus to heal. Bless and do not curse ... and above all Love God with all heart mind and strength. Love people and seek the lost. His kingdom come, His will be done! Bless you all!

See [www.cultnews.com]

The Rick A. Ross Institute for the Study of Destructive Cults, Controversial Groups, and Movements has officially changed its name to The Cult Education Institute for the Study of Destructive Cults, Controversial Groups and Movements.

The new domain name entry point and gateway to the Internet archives of the institute will soon be culteducation.com.

The Cult Education Institute archives is a library of information about destructive cults, controversial groups and movements, which was initially launched in 1996 and has continued to be under construction and expansion for the past 17 years.

The public message board attached to the The Cult Education Institute will soon only be accessible through the domain name culteducation.com. More than 100,000 entries from the former members of destructive cults, controversial groups and movements and others concerned has accumulated at the board over the past decade. The message board content continues to grow daily and it serves as a free speech zone for those who wish to share their insights and concerns about the topics listed.

Wow, it's been awhile since I read about the Riches. Since my last post a few years ago my parents have passed away. I have been going through their financial paperwork and discovered that my dad gave the Riches almost 4 million dollars over the years. Our whole family tried to talk to them about being used and that the only time Mike would visit them was when he needed more money. Unfortunately my parents fell for the Riches lies and deceit. I am sure my dad's heart was in the right place and now he is with the Lord and see's the real truth. FCG

I'm sorry to have heard of your fathers situation, but as you say, he now knows the truth. I'm wondering if there are any current updates or views on the Riches ministry. I am particularly interested in their influence in the UK and its churches, the "Jesus Ministry", Living in freedom course and the impact on lives.
Welcome any recent news.