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Nosotruthtesty,
I already showed you Dr. Wall “glazed” over epignossis. Which you could not and did not refute. He was in absolute error. His credibility over something so simple to detect did not “go out the window” in your mind.
Galiban it is you that glazing over Dr. Wall's critique. Read all of it on Spiritual maturity, then comment. I can and have refuted anything you say.
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He was in absolute error
Galiban get a grip your coming apart. Dr. Wall did make mention of epignosis though Thieme is off-based in the way he used it. Read the whole critique, then comment.
Critique
One's first reaction to this extremely complex analysis of the maturity process is that it is totally absurd, and that Thieme must not be serious -- but apparently he is serious. After making some observations about the difference between human wisdom and divine wisdom and about the significance of the term epignosis, he begins to believe his own detailed description of the soul and spirit and to push it to extremes far beyond any biblical teaching. One striking characteristic of Thieme's in-depth analysis in this area is the almost total absence of sound exegesis. The statement in James 1:21 concerning the implanted word (emphuton logon) is expanded without any exegetical basis to describe four of Thieme's own categories of production. A brief reference to Peter's reminding of believers to remember certain doctrines is supposed to be a sufficient biblical base for the concept of the memory center "valves."
[b:dee6e815c7]Although it is proper to observe the special emphasis that the term epignosis has, Thieme has overstated the distinctions between gnosis and
epignosis. Knowledge (gnosis) does not have the highly technical sense employed by Thieme. It is used of the knowledge in the mind of God(Rom.11:33), and it is also used of one of the building blocks in the structuring of Christian character in 2 Peter 1:5 (Here the term seems more in keeping with Thieme's concept of epignosis.). It is probably best to take the term gnosis to refer to knowledge in general, including at times epignosis; epignosis does, however, seem to have a more specialized use: Christian knowledge which “carries with it a corresponding manner of life.”33[/b:dee6e815c7] There are two primary problems with Thieme's concept of the process of growth (the function of GAP). First, it demands a view of the pastor-teacher that is not in keeping with the biblical statements nor with the biblical mentality. This will be discussed further in the next chapter. Second, the entire process that Thieme propounds can be reduced to one phrase: Be positive toward and believe what is taught. Not only does this concept dangerously produce a blind dependency on a pastor-teacher, but it fails to encompass the clear scriptural pattern for growth. Paul's classic passage on spiritual maturity, Ephesians 4, indicates two aspects of the process that Thieme has overlooked. First, verse 16 teaches that spiritual growth takes place through the contact and interaction of the members of the body of Christ, as every spiritual gift in the body functions and ministers to other gifts. Second, the subject of "speaking the truth in love" in verse 15 is "we." In the context this means the whole body of believers. Not only does the process of spiritual maturity involve all of the members of the body ministering to one another, but the biblical pattern requires application of truth, not only as a result of maturity but as a part of the process of growing itself. Christ taught that a volitional decision to obey God's will would result in discernment (John 7:17). He also taught that the building of our spiritual house and its stability depends upon acting upon the teachings of Christ (Matt. 7:24-27). Also the writer of Hebrews taught that a key element in spiritual maturity is the discernment between good and evil, and he indicated that practical exercise (hexin) was necessary to develop mature discernment. The maturing process is not sitting under a particular, authoritative pastor-teacher every night of the week and responding with positive faith. It is the loving communication of the truths of God's Word by all of the members of the body, expressing the particular illumination that the Holy Spirit gives to each person in accordance with his particular gift. The pastor-teacher and the evangelist (Eph. 4:1 lb) are to equip the saints (all believers) with the tools for personal Bible study and application; the saints, in turn, carry out the work of service for the purpose of building up the body of Christ (Eph. 4:12). Each individual Christian grows as he responds to the truth so communicated to him. That response includes both attitude changes and overt actions. Thieme's GAP approach is totally off-balanced. Not only does it fail to enhance true spiritual growth, it actually can inhibit true growth by giving the believer a false sense of maturity, not unlike the "puffed up" believer in I Corinthians 8: 1.
33 Kittel, Theological Dictionary, s.v. "ginosko, gnosis, epiginosko, epignosis),"by Rudolph
Bultinann, 1(1964):707.
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Galiban now tell us was Dr. Wall in absolute error? think
Galiban
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In my studies I have am hitting hurdles.
Ok well you said it was useless to debate a non-christian, apparently it's not.
Galiban
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You have not Posted Thieme’s work that I can fact check. Dr. Wall is obviously in error in this instance too!
This makes no sense, your not making logical sense. Dr. Wall is in error of what?
Galiban
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Shall his credibility “go out the window”?
No. Dr. Wall fact checked his work before he presented information to other people.
Two error’s in the work of the man you tout in just a few hours of study. And you complain cause I copy and pasted some guys work and didn’t fact check until the next day? I just read the passage in question and did not make certain it was accurate. But the rub is “I” Checked it! I discovered the error. You have not ability or means to do so.[/quote]
The rub is, you know that "I" would have caught it and I would have brought it to light(sooner or later). That would have been twice as embarassing, so you corrected it. I doubt you would have done so trying to convince someone else. And why are you copying and pasting someone else's work? Also, you read, you did not make certain it was accurate, but you would have eveyone believe your shody information because you thought it supported your cause. You do not fact check before you have others believe? Shame Shame. Your learning methods need a lot of work. Then you falsely accuse me of (Galiban
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"You have not ability or means to do so"
when I have clearly checked and defeated everyone of your arguments. I don't know how old you are, but if you would like to e-mail directly we can talk were it's less embarassing for you. You have shown me none of Dr. Wall's errors. You apparently have to do more than a glazed over reading to get the point of what's going on.
Truthtesty