R.B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by:
Galiban
()
Date: March 01, 2007 06:37AM
Hello GeneZ,
I thank you very much for your comments. It does good to know my effort is understood and appreciated. I want to thank you for your support of those teachings and the support to keep those teachings available on the internet for free.
I am always surprised when a Catholic Priest teaches the original languages, but that is where Martin Luther started to realize the Truth!
My hopes are to enlighten readers with accurate information about Thieme's teachings and helping them to realize that to discover the truths of these teachings is not related to ability but [u:52d62d8132][b:52d62d8132]availability[/b:52d62d8132][/u:52d62d8132]. God wants your time.
This is why I do not mind responding to anyone when they post something that can be refuted with scripture. Most has been figuring’s and imaginary ideals rather than scripture supporting a viewpoint that Thieme is/was a cult leader.
Knowing God has a purpose, a will and a way of doing things has changed my life. Knowing that the Bible actually possesses answers and the manuscript on how I can accomplish His will has changed my existence!
I am hoping that everyone, Spritiual Liberty, HappyandFree and Truthtesty come to realize that their lack of understanding comes from a lack of diligent study and fellowship with God rather than Thieme's error. The scriptures I have posted are only portions of overall studies but wow to the power they hold.
I thank you very much for your comments. It does good to know my effort is understood and appreciated. I want to thank you for your support of those teachings and the support to keep those teachings available on the internet for free.
I am always surprised when a Catholic Priest teaches the original languages, but that is where Martin Luther started to realize the Truth!
My hopes are to enlighten readers with accurate information about Thieme's teachings and helping them to realize that to discover the truths of these teachings is not related to ability but [u:52d62d8132][b:52d62d8132]availability[/b:52d62d8132][/u:52d62d8132]. God wants your time.
This is why I do not mind responding to anyone when they post something that can be refuted with scripture. Most has been figuring’s and imaginary ideals rather than scripture supporting a viewpoint that Thieme is/was a cult leader.
Knowing God has a purpose, a will and a way of doing things has changed my life. Knowing that the Bible actually possesses answers and the manuscript on how I can accomplish His will has changed my existence!
I am hoping that everyone, Spritiual Liberty, HappyandFree and Truthtesty come to realize that their lack of understanding comes from a lack of diligent study and fellowship with God rather than Thieme's error. The scriptures I have posted are only portions of overall studies but wow to the power they hold.
R.B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by:
Truthtesty
()
Date: March 01, 2007 10:01AM
To Galiban & Genez:
Read the foreward of Dr. Wall's dissertation by Dr. John F Walvoord President of Dallas theological Seminary
Is the President of Dallas Theological Seminary "out to get" Thieme too?
[www.walvoordhistory.com]
Read part of Dr. Wall's preface
Does it look like Dr. Wall is out to get Thieme?
I'll tell you what under what criteria would you consider Thieme to have made a mistake? What about the [b:1f1414d716]fact[/b:1f1414d716] that Thieme has recanted some of his own doctrines? Did you consider his teachings a mistake before or after Thieme recanted? You probably never even thought Thieme was wrong before or after his recanting.
Be clear. Dr. Wall is not "out to get Thieme". I am "out to get Thieme" because Thieme proved himself false. Thieme "got" himself.
So before you try change the subject, why don't you tell me how Thieme's teachings appear to you now in the light of my posting? (which you conveniently bypassed)
Testy's previous post
Does this have ANY effect? Any? Hello? It should. Thieme attacked all christians unecessarily for years because they had feelings while they interpreted thier own version of the bible thier own way. Thieme however, was just as much in error (according to Thieme's own objective/subjective argument) because Thieme was subjective by being prejudiced while Thieme interpreted the bible the sado-masochistic anti-human way Thieme [b:1f1414d716]wanted[/b:1f1414d716] to interpret the bible.
Just one more thing, I'd like to know how both of you became christians. You know how you grew up, your family church as children etc...
Truthtesty
Read the foreward of Dr. Wall's dissertation by Dr. John F Walvoord President of Dallas theological Seminary
Quote
A balanced and fair evaluation of the extensive teachings of Robert Thieme has been overdue. The writer of this volume has achieved a balance between proper recognition of the good qualities of the teaching ministry of Colonel Robert B. Thieme and at the same time a candid evaluation and critique. The author has had a long and warm relationship to Colonel Thieme which has enabled him to show proper appreciation of those aspects of his ministry which are commendable. At the same time, he has not blindly ignored problems which many have noted in these same teachings. As one who has had a long personal relationship with Colonel Thieme, I have been distressed both by those who shower undiscerning praise upon his teachings as well as those who have been unfairly critical. While the comments of Dr. Wall and his analysis will probably not satisfy either the severe critics nor the avid followers of Colonel Thieme, this volume presents an evenhanded, fair analysis which will be welcomed by many Christians who have been searching for a thorough study and proper evaluation. It is hoped that this volume will put in proper perspective the questions which many people have raised, arising out of great admiration for Colonel Thieme or prompted by critical opposition. This volume is commended to the Christian reading public for its solid contribution. John F. Walvoord
Is the President of Dallas Theological Seminary "out to get" Thieme too?
[www.walvoordhistory.com]
Read part of Dr. Wall's preface
Quote
It is the prayerful desire of the author that no part of this dissertation will be construed as a malicious attack on a man but rather a fair evaluation of doctrine, and that the ultimate impact of this study will promote the unity, growth, purity, and stability of the body of Christ and will bring glory to our blessed matchless redeemer and Lord, Jesus Christ.
Does it look like Dr. Wall is out to get Thieme?
I'll tell you what under what criteria would you consider Thieme to have made a mistake? What about the [b:1f1414d716]fact[/b:1f1414d716] that Thieme has recanted some of his own doctrines? Did you consider his teachings a mistake before or after Thieme recanted? You probably never even thought Thieme was wrong before or after his recanting.
Be clear. Dr. Wall is not "out to get Thieme". I am "out to get Thieme" because Thieme proved himself false. Thieme "got" himself.
So before you try change the subject, why don't you tell me how Thieme's teachings appear to you now in the light of my posting? (which you conveniently bypassed)
Testy's previous post
Quote
Per Galiban and ThiemeQuote
Thus God either conceals or reveals depending on whether one is open (subjective or objective)
I have a whole lot to say about this, but for now, even if the Galiban's stated arguement is assumed, Thieme's view of "objectivity" is skewed.
If you look at the definition of objective (Merriam-Webster) [m-w.com]
3 a : expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, [u:1f1414d716][b:1f1414d716]prejudices[/u:1f1414d716][/b:1f1414d716], or interpretations[/color:1f1414d716]
I don't think there is a Thiemite that exists, or even Thieme or his son would try to say that Thieme was not prejudiced. Thieme was extremely [b:1f1414d716][u:1f1414d716]prejudiced[/u:1f1414d716][/b:1f1414d716]. That evidence is taperecorded.
Predjudiced = Subjective (bell ring) therefore, in Thieme's own arguement, Thieme is logically included as being subjective (bell ring) therefore, in Thieme's own arguement, Thieme must be categorized as "swine" (bell ring). Also, in Thieme's own arguement, God would not reveal to Thieme (bell ring).
I'd also like to point out that expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as [u:1f1414d716]perceived without distortion by[/u:1f1414d716] personal feelings[/color:1f1414d716]
Notice being "objective" does not necessitate attacking and invalidating "feelings" like an aggressive rabid pit bull, as Thieme does. You can have feelings you just don't let them distort the truth.
Does this have ANY effect? Any? Hello? It should. Thieme attacked all christians unecessarily for years because they had feelings while they interpreted thier own version of the bible thier own way. Thieme however, was just as much in error (according to Thieme's own objective/subjective argument) because Thieme was subjective by being prejudiced while Thieme interpreted the bible the sado-masochistic anti-human way Thieme [b:1f1414d716]wanted[/b:1f1414d716] to interpret the bible.
Just one more thing, I'd like to know how both of you became christians. You know how you grew up, your family church as children etc...
Truthtesty
R.B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by:
Galiban
()
Date: March 01, 2007 10:41AM
Truthtesty, In response to 02-28-2007 07:01 PM
You have not posted scripture. They key to me discussing this with you is that you quote scripture. Flinging "mud" is pointless. A rational arguement is pointless. Can a republican and democrat agree? No. Scripture, however, is irrefutable.
I will not address your previous post due to the lack of Scripture. If you would like you can post which doctrines that Thieme recanted and I can tell you if he was right before or after.
But the mud slinging I refuse to address. That is why I have ignored you until you posted Dr. Wall's Dissertation.
And Yes the forward from the President of the Dallas Theological Seminary is biased. If you cannot see that I pity you. I have already quoted that Bias. Please read all of my post it will help you in the future. The last statement to you in that post was to reread as I knew you would not be diligent in understanding everything in that post.
You have not posted scripture. They key to me discussing this with you is that you quote scripture. Flinging "mud" is pointless. A rational arguement is pointless. Can a republican and democrat agree? No. Scripture, however, is irrefutable.
I will not address your previous post due to the lack of Scripture. If you would like you can post which doctrines that Thieme recanted and I can tell you if he was right before or after.
But the mud slinging I refuse to address. That is why I have ignored you until you posted Dr. Wall's Dissertation.
And Yes the forward from the President of the Dallas Theological Seminary is biased. If you cannot see that I pity you. I have already quoted that Bias. Please read all of my post it will help you in the future. The last statement to you in that post was to reread as I knew you would not be diligent in understanding everything in that post.
Quote
If you do not believe that this guy is “out to get” Thieme then you need to [b:dca5f8c430][u:dca5f8c430]reread this post and just the first pages of Dr. Wall’s dissertation[/u:dca5f8c430][/b:dca5f8c430].
R.B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by:
Truthtesty
()
Date: March 01, 2007 10:59AM
Galiban
Another quote of mine which you conveniently bypassed and choose not to rebutt
BE OBJECTIVE. LOL BY ALL MEANS!
Truthtesty
Another quote of mine which you conveniently bypassed and choose not to rebutt
Quote
Posted: 02-25-2007 10:38 AM Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If Thieme cannot be trusted to explain fully the word OBJECTIVE in English, then he should NOT be trusted to explain fully foreign words in another language.
BE OBJECTIVE. LOL BY ALL MEANS!
Truthtesty
R.B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: March 02, 2007 02:42AM
To whom it may concern:
Let's try to be civil here.
No insults or personal attacks please.
Flaming is against the rules.
Let's try to be civil here.
No insults or personal attacks please.
Flaming is against the rules.
R.B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by:
Truthtesty
()
Date: March 02, 2007 10:40AM
Galiban,
Answer this
How do you explain Thieme's lifelong obvious predjudice against other christian pastors trying to admonish Thieme to the truth of the bible? The entire Dallas Theological Seminary(where Thieme earned his masters) tried to reach Thieme. Doctors of Theology from across America reached out to try to help Thieme. But Thieme was steadfastly prejudiced in his own view. This predjudice was subjective and by your own words GOD WILL CONCEAL.
Galiban quoted Posted: 02-22-2007 08:16 PM Post subject:
[b:8fd34e81cf]Thus God either conceals or reveals depending on whether one is open (subjective or objective) to hearing what the Bible teaches.[/b:8fd34e81cf]
You posted that Galiban.
Now you can use the same trick Thieme does and avoid a direct answer by claiming you only talk about scripture, but it's not true. Anyone can look back at your recent posts and see that you reply to more than just scripture. Including the one where you said "I(Galiban) will not be replying in this forum or even viewing it again."
Galiban stated
Galiban does not try to prove this, he just makes an unfounded accusation that the foreward is biased. This accusation is from Galiban, a person who considers "A rational arguement is pointless". Also, I could care less about your pity. Your pity does not replace factual evidence.
For those reading I pose the question, Wouldn't it be accurate and honest to say "do not be predjudiced for Thieme's view when you read the bible for yourselves."
παῤῥησία parrhēsia par-rhay-see'-ah
From G3956 and a derivative of G4483; all out spokenness, that is, frankness, bluntness, publicity; by implication assurance: - bold (X -ly, -ness, -ness of speech), confidence, X freely, X openly, X plainly (-ness).
Clearly the interpretation is not restricted to just the "bold" reference selection.
I prefer Young's Literal Translation (which is what I posted Posted: 02-28-2007 05:54 AM)
2 Corinthians 3:12
Having, then, such hope, we use much freedom of speech,
If you make accusations at least have the common courtesy to back them up with some sort of evidence.
Republicans and Democrats do on occasion agree.
I have much more to say, but that will have to wait for the weekend.
Truthtesty
Answer this
How do you explain Thieme's lifelong obvious predjudice against other christian pastors trying to admonish Thieme to the truth of the bible? The entire Dallas Theological Seminary(where Thieme earned his masters) tried to reach Thieme. Doctors of Theology from across America reached out to try to help Thieme. But Thieme was steadfastly prejudiced in his own view. This predjudice was subjective and by your own words GOD WILL CONCEAL.
Galiban quoted Posted: 02-22-2007 08:16 PM Post subject:
[b:8fd34e81cf]Thus God either conceals or reveals depending on whether one is open (subjective or objective) to hearing what the Bible teaches.[/b:8fd34e81cf]
You posted that Galiban.
Now you can use the same trick Thieme does and avoid a direct answer by claiming you only talk about scripture, but it's not true. Anyone can look back at your recent posts and see that you reply to more than just scripture. Including the one where you said "I(Galiban) will not be replying in this forum or even viewing it again."
Galiban stated
Quote
And Yes the forward from the President of the Dallas Theological Seminary is biased. If you cannot see that I pity you.
Galiban does not try to prove this, he just makes an unfounded accusation that the foreward is biased. This accusation is from Galiban, a person who considers "A rational arguement is pointless". Also, I could care less about your pity. Your pity does not replace factual evidence.
For those reading I pose the question, Wouldn't it be accurate and honest to say "do not be predjudiced for Thieme's view when you read the bible for yourselves."
παῤῥησία parrhēsia par-rhay-see'-ah
From G3956 and a derivative of G4483; all out spokenness, that is, frankness, bluntness, publicity; by implication assurance: - bold (X -ly, -ness, -ness of speech), confidence, X freely, X openly, X plainly (-ness).
Clearly the interpretation is not restricted to just the "bold" reference selection.
I prefer Young's Literal Translation (which is what I posted Posted: 02-28-2007 05:54 AM)
2 Corinthians 3:12
Having, then, such hope, we use much freedom of speech,
If you make accusations at least have the common courtesy to back them up with some sort of evidence.
Republicans and Democrats do on occasion agree.
I have much more to say, but that will have to wait for the weekend.
Truthtesty
R.B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by:
Galiban
()
Date: March 02, 2007 01:06PM
Truthtesty, to respond to Posted: 03-01-2007 07:40 PM
First you must, I mean must, understand I am not defending Thieme. I am defending the Doctrines (Scriptures) that Dr. Wall asserted (and SpiritualLiberty and HappyandFree) were the basis of placing Thieme and his teachings in the realm of a cult. After all that is why we are here.
I have not studied Thieme’s tapes or in his church. (I have studied his written work.) He is not my assigned pastor teacher. (Acts 20:28, 1Peter 5:1-3) But I do know the doctrines, which have been under attack here. They are accurate. This means that the teachings that Thieme has put forth are accurate. Neither I, nor Thieme need to defend his character or sins. (Isaiah 54:17b) God will vindicate him. However, the false doctrines will be refuted by Truth. (Isaiah 54:17a)
I do not have to!
A pastor instructs his assigned congregation. Not other pastors. Give me one scripture to refute this. They should [b:59697bbd3b]not[/b:59697bbd3b] spend their lives admonishing Thieme. Perhaps you (who are ill eguiped spiritually) should not either.....
1st Timothy 1:3,18 , 3:14-15, 4:6 , 4:11 , 5:21 , 6:2-3 , 6:13-14.
They should be expending every bit of effort instructing their assigned flock.
Acts 20:28, 1Peter 5:1-3. 1st Timothy 4:11, 1st Timothy 1:3,18 , 3:14-15, 4:6 , 4:11 , 5:21 , 6:2-3 , 6:13-14. 1st Timothy 5:7, 1st Timothy 4:15, 1st Timothy 3:14-15, 1st Timothy 4:1-10. I could go on……
It is sufficient to say “give me scriptures that state another pastor teacher should admonish anyone but his own flock.”
A pastor teacher should protect his assigned flock from false teachings, not the sheep assigned to others….1st Timothy 4:1-10, 1st Timothy 6:20
Notice in 1st Timothy 6:21 some have fallen from the faith by professing false doctrines. Is Timothy instructed to admonish them?
God holds the Pastor Teacher accountable. Not the Christian community, other Pastor Teachers, even his own flock. Give me scriptures to refute this. 1st Timothy 5:21 1st Timothy 1:8 Notice who he is charged in front of in 5:21?
The congregation should submit to his teachings as a slave to his master. They are to give a Pastor Teacher full respect. This verse states that if the congregation respects the Pastor Teacher they will not incidentally blaspheme his doctrine. The congregation that disrespects a Pastor Teacher is not worthy to judge a doctrinal viewpoint whether it be right or wrong…… 1st Timothy 6:1
We are to learn Theology from our church, not a seminary. Show me scriptures that shows a Pastor Teacher is to study at a college or seminary. I am not stating that learning doctrine from any source is a bad thing, only that learning or being a part of a seminary does not give you a more weighted opinion. Secondly, it is not the desire of God that you learn in a seminary, rather that you learn as a part of a Church under your Pastor Teacher.
Notice, the Pastor Teacher is to choose the Elders of the church, this includes future Pastor Teachers. Show me scriptures to refute this. 1st Timothy 3:1-13.
He is instructed to evaluate the Elders lifestyles when choosing. 1st Timothy 3:1-13
He is required to test the future leaders of the Church. 1st Timothy 3:10
He is required to make certain the understand sound doctrine. 1st Timothy 3:9.
In all of this no seminary, no admonishing inaccurate pastors, no instruction of other pastors. In fact all pastors are warned to be accurate in their teachings or they will pull their congregations down with them. That is why a pastor answers to God alone.
1st Timothy 4:14-16. It is up to the congregation to know who is their assigned Pastor Teacher. If you wish those scriptures let me know.
I won’t discuss [b:59697bbd3b][u:59697bbd3b]with you [/u:59697bbd3b][/b:59697bbd3b]things you post [u:59697bbd3b][b:59697bbd3b]without scripture.[/b:59697bbd3b][/u:59697bbd3b] Look at the wealth of information I have provided, which you will promptly ignore and reject. Your viewpoint is without God backing it up. (Before you point this out, the doctrine above is for the teaching that a lot of Pastors hold to. They, the Seminary Scholars, are to inform congregations, in a cult, of the truth. Even if they inaccurately perceive a cult where there is none.) All above refutes this teaching, that they are obligated to inform other congregations of the inaccuracies of a pastor teacher.
2 Timothy 2:23, Titus 3:9. God states in these verses to avoid foolish arguments and quarrels. That is what you do. However, in all of my Posts I take a stand for Key Doctrines and assert that Thieme’s doctrines are backed up by scripture.
Ultimately, no congregation member should in anyway disrespect his Pastor Teacher or his teachings for the inadvertent mistake that they Blaspheme the teachings of God. 1st Timothy 6:1-2
I am not asserting that all of Dr. Wall’s information is wrong or that he is undeserving of the respect his office holds.(That is why I asked you to pick those teachings you felt strongest, which you have failed to do.) I am asserting that his teachings show bias (which I indicated) and do not prove out when taken in with Divine viewpoint (that is a scriptural understanding, epignossis if you will). I am in no way admonishing the man. I am pointing out doctrinal viewpoint to address his work. I did not bash the man only the critical evaluation he put forth. That allows me to know that He is not my assigned Pastor Teacher. Though he may have people assigned to him.
It is better stated, “You are unbiased if you read the bible with diligent study, filling of the Spirit, after rebounding, and using divine viewpoint God has given you.”
“Clearly the interpretation is not restricted to just the "bold" reference selection.”
Ya missed this entirely. I guessed you would state that. Notice you did not show me why I was wrong to choose the translations I did. Only that I was wrong. Same as HappyandFree. Show me where I am wrong, then I shall concede. Don’t just say I am wrong. I chose the word “bold” due to the context, isagogics, and surrounding scriptures.
This was an [b:59697bbd3b]analogy[/b:59697bbd3b] from divine viewpoint. I will explain.
God does not agree on occasion with the devil. He is Truth and can have nothing to do with the sin nature that the Devil possess’s. He has one system and one understanding. He does not compromise as a politician. If a politician agrees with another Politician it is for mutual profit. That is not how God works. I will let you discover those scriptures for yourself.
I have addressed this in in the previous posts. Please reread. You will notice that if a Man reads the work’s of Dr. Wall and then gives a forward that states “This work is unbiased” when that work he just read is clearly biased….then by default that man is attempting to deceive you or did not actually read the work. In either case, he must then possess a bias towards Thieme that is negative.
Ultimately you did not counter point my doctrines (scriptures) only my “accusations of proponents that are anti-Theme”. There was so much information in those posts. Are you by default stipulating their accuracy?
Secondly, if I state something it should be from Divine viewpoint. When I do state something that is not from divine viewpoint, God does and will correct me. As in that Previous post, where I did express:
"I(Galiban) will not be replying in this forum or even viewing it again."
Last Time, gimme scripture or I will stop responding. Show me that Thieme is from a cult because his teachings are against the Word of God. None have done that. In fact that was your call, you asked for people to do what I did. To check out Dr. Wall’s teachings on the matter, I have done this. You have not shown my evaluation to be wrong, only that you say that it is wrong. Using logic will not convince me. Only scripture.
Again, pick out the Key Doctrinal topics that Make Thieme a cult leader, which you have as yet, failed to do. Post those Doctrines that you assert are wrong and place him in heresy. I will address them directly. No more of the “chatter”.
Please do so in future posts. Stop the mud “slinging”.
First you must, I mean must, understand I am not defending Thieme. I am defending the Doctrines (Scriptures) that Dr. Wall asserted (and SpiritualLiberty and HappyandFree) were the basis of placing Thieme and his teachings in the realm of a cult. After all that is why we are here.
I have not studied Thieme’s tapes or in his church. (I have studied his written work.) He is not my assigned pastor teacher. (Acts 20:28, 1Peter 5:1-3) But I do know the doctrines, which have been under attack here. They are accurate. This means that the teachings that Thieme has put forth are accurate. Neither I, nor Thieme need to defend his character or sins. (Isaiah 54:17b) God will vindicate him. However, the false doctrines will be refuted by Truth. (Isaiah 54:17a)
Quote
“How do you explain Thieme's lifelong obvious prejudice against other Christian pastors trying to admonish Thieme to the truth of the bible?”
I do not have to!
A pastor instructs his assigned congregation. Not other pastors. Give me one scripture to refute this. They should [b:59697bbd3b]not[/b:59697bbd3b] spend their lives admonishing Thieme. Perhaps you (who are ill eguiped spiritually) should not either.....
1st Timothy 1:3,18 , 3:14-15, 4:6 , 4:11 , 5:21 , 6:2-3 , 6:13-14.
They should be expending every bit of effort instructing their assigned flock.
Acts 20:28, 1Peter 5:1-3. 1st Timothy 4:11, 1st Timothy 1:3,18 , 3:14-15, 4:6 , 4:11 , 5:21 , 6:2-3 , 6:13-14. 1st Timothy 5:7, 1st Timothy 4:15, 1st Timothy 3:14-15, 1st Timothy 4:1-10. I could go on……
It is sufficient to say “give me scriptures that state another pastor teacher should admonish anyone but his own flock.”
A pastor teacher should protect his assigned flock from false teachings, not the sheep assigned to others….1st Timothy 4:1-10, 1st Timothy 6:20
Notice in 1st Timothy 6:21 some have fallen from the faith by professing false doctrines. Is Timothy instructed to admonish them?
God holds the Pastor Teacher accountable. Not the Christian community, other Pastor Teachers, even his own flock. Give me scriptures to refute this. 1st Timothy 5:21 1st Timothy 1:8 Notice who he is charged in front of in 5:21?
The congregation should submit to his teachings as a slave to his master. They are to give a Pastor Teacher full respect. This verse states that if the congregation respects the Pastor Teacher they will not incidentally blaspheme his doctrine. The congregation that disrespects a Pastor Teacher is not worthy to judge a doctrinal viewpoint whether it be right or wrong…… 1st Timothy 6:1
We are to learn Theology from our church, not a seminary. Show me scriptures that shows a Pastor Teacher is to study at a college or seminary. I am not stating that learning doctrine from any source is a bad thing, only that learning or being a part of a seminary does not give you a more weighted opinion. Secondly, it is not the desire of God that you learn in a seminary, rather that you learn as a part of a Church under your Pastor Teacher.
Notice, the Pastor Teacher is to choose the Elders of the church, this includes future Pastor Teachers. Show me scriptures to refute this. 1st Timothy 3:1-13.
He is instructed to evaluate the Elders lifestyles when choosing. 1st Timothy 3:1-13
He is required to test the future leaders of the Church. 1st Timothy 3:10
He is required to make certain the understand sound doctrine. 1st Timothy 3:9.
In all of this no seminary, no admonishing inaccurate pastors, no instruction of other pastors. In fact all pastors are warned to be accurate in their teachings or they will pull their congregations down with them. That is why a pastor answers to God alone.
1st Timothy 4:14-16. It is up to the congregation to know who is their assigned Pastor Teacher. If you wish those scriptures let me know.
Quote
“Now you can use the same trick Thieme does and avoid a direct answer by claiming you only talk about scripture, but it's not true. Anyone can look back at your recent posts and see that you reply to more than just scripture. Including the one where you said "I (Galiban) will not be replying in this forum or even viewing it again."”
I won’t discuss [b:59697bbd3b][u:59697bbd3b]with you [/u:59697bbd3b][/b:59697bbd3b]things you post [u:59697bbd3b][b:59697bbd3b]without scripture.[/b:59697bbd3b][/u:59697bbd3b] Look at the wealth of information I have provided, which you will promptly ignore and reject. Your viewpoint is without God backing it up. (Before you point this out, the doctrine above is for the teaching that a lot of Pastors hold to. They, the Seminary Scholars, are to inform congregations, in a cult, of the truth. Even if they inaccurately perceive a cult where there is none.) All above refutes this teaching, that they are obligated to inform other congregations of the inaccuracies of a pastor teacher.
2 Timothy 2:23, Titus 3:9. God states in these verses to avoid foolish arguments and quarrels. That is what you do. However, in all of my Posts I take a stand for Key Doctrines and assert that Thieme’s doctrines are backed up by scripture.
Ultimately, no congregation member should in anyway disrespect his Pastor Teacher or his teachings for the inadvertent mistake that they Blaspheme the teachings of God. 1st Timothy 6:1-2
I am not asserting that all of Dr. Wall’s information is wrong or that he is undeserving of the respect his office holds.(That is why I asked you to pick those teachings you felt strongest, which you have failed to do.) I am asserting that his teachings show bias (which I indicated) and do not prove out when taken in with Divine viewpoint (that is a scriptural understanding, epignossis if you will). I am in no way admonishing the man. I am pointing out doctrinal viewpoint to address his work. I did not bash the man only the critical evaluation he put forth. That allows me to know that He is not my assigned Pastor Teacher. Though he may have people assigned to him.
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“For those reading I pose the question, Wouldn't it be accurate and honest to say "do not be predjudiced for Thieme's view when you read the bible for yourselves."”
It is better stated, “You are unbiased if you read the bible with diligent study, filling of the Spirit, after rebounding, and using divine viewpoint God has given you.”
“Clearly the interpretation is not restricted to just the "bold" reference selection.”
Ya missed this entirely. I guessed you would state that. Notice you did not show me why I was wrong to choose the translations I did. Only that I was wrong. Same as HappyandFree. Show me where I am wrong, then I shall concede. Don’t just say I am wrong. I chose the word “bold” due to the context, isagogics, and surrounding scriptures.
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“Republicans and Democrats do on occasion agree.”
This was an [b:59697bbd3b]analogy[/b:59697bbd3b] from divine viewpoint. I will explain.
God does not agree on occasion with the devil. He is Truth and can have nothing to do with the sin nature that the Devil possess’s. He has one system and one understanding. He does not compromise as a politician. If a politician agrees with another Politician it is for mutual profit. That is not how God works. I will let you discover those scriptures for yourself.
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“Galiban stated
Quote:
And Yes the forward from the President of the Dallas Theological Seminary is biased. If you cannot see that I pity you.
Galiban does not try to prove this, he just makes an unfounded accusation that the foreward is biased. This accusation is from Galiban, a person who considers "A rational arguement is pointless". Also, I could care less about your pity. Your pity does not replace factual evidence.”
I have addressed this in in the previous posts. Please reread. You will notice that if a Man reads the work’s of Dr. Wall and then gives a forward that states “This work is unbiased” when that work he just read is clearly biased….then by default that man is attempting to deceive you or did not actually read the work. In either case, he must then possess a bias towards Thieme that is negative.
Ultimately you did not counter point my doctrines (scriptures) only my “accusations of proponents that are anti-Theme”. There was so much information in those posts. Are you by default stipulating their accuracy?
Secondly, if I state something it should be from Divine viewpoint. When I do state something that is not from divine viewpoint, God does and will correct me. As in that Previous post, where I did express:
"I(Galiban) will not be replying in this forum or even viewing it again."
Last Time, gimme scripture or I will stop responding. Show me that Thieme is from a cult because his teachings are against the Word of God. None have done that. In fact that was your call, you asked for people to do what I did. To check out Dr. Wall’s teachings on the matter, I have done this. You have not shown my evaluation to be wrong, only that you say that it is wrong. Using logic will not convince me. Only scripture.
Again, pick out the Key Doctrinal topics that Make Thieme a cult leader, which you have as yet, failed to do. Post those Doctrines that you assert are wrong and place him in heresy. I will address them directly. No more of the “chatter”.
Please do so in future posts. Stop the mud “slinging”.
R.B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by:
Truthtesty
()
Date: March 02, 2007 07:38PM
Galiban posted
Galiban posted
Dubious
1 : giving rise to uncertainty: as a : of doubtful promise or outcome <a dubious plan> b : questionable or suspect as to true nature or quality <the practice is of dubious legality> <the dubious honor of being the world's biggest polluter>
[209.161.33.50]
Rational
1 a: having reason or understanding b: relating to, based on, or agreeable to reason.
[209.161.33.50]
I think I have been very [u:bfe6576aa6]plain spoken[/u:bfe6576aa6], yet you accuse me of [u:bfe6576aa6]dubious motives[/u:bfe6576aa6] and [u:bfe6576aa6]lacking insight.[/u:bfe6576aa6], without pointing to anything specific. You are advocating an acceptance of irrationality so who's motives are [b:bfe6576aa6]really[/b:bfe6576aa6] dubious and lacking insight?
Per Dr. Wall's dissertation "Christ taught that a volitional decision to obey God's will would result in discernment"
Discernment not irrationality.
Truthtesty
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Up to this point I have avoided directly discussing anything with you due to your obviously dubious motives and lack of insight.
Galiban posted
Quote
"A rational arguement is pointless"
Dubious
1 : giving rise to uncertainty: as a : of doubtful promise or outcome <a dubious plan> b : questionable or suspect as to true nature or quality <the practice is of dubious legality> <the dubious honor of being the world's biggest polluter>
[209.161.33.50]
Rational
1 a: having reason or understanding b: relating to, based on, or agreeable to reason.
[209.161.33.50]
I think I have been very [u:bfe6576aa6]plain spoken[/u:bfe6576aa6], yet you accuse me of [u:bfe6576aa6]dubious motives[/u:bfe6576aa6] and [u:bfe6576aa6]lacking insight.[/u:bfe6576aa6], without pointing to anything specific. You are advocating an acceptance of irrationality so who's motives are [b:bfe6576aa6]really[/b:bfe6576aa6] dubious and lacking insight?
Per Dr. Wall's dissertation "Christ taught that a volitional decision to obey God's will would result in discernment"
Discernment not irrationality.
Truthtesty
R.B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by:
Galiban
()
Date: March 03, 2007 06:14AM
Quote
“The congregation should submit to his teachings as a slave to his master. They are to give a Pastor Teacher full respect. This verse states that if the congregation respects the Pastor Teacher they will not incidentally blaspheme his doctrine. The congregation that disrespects a Pastor Teacher is not worthy to judge a doctrinal viewpoint whether it be right or wrong…… 1st Timothy 6:1”
I need to correct this verse. God in his infinite power showed me this is inaccurate. I read the King James and did not look deeper and misunderstood it. This goes to proof that just reading the Bible is not good enough. You must study and let God guide and correct you.
This verse is referring to the fact in the Times in which the Bible was written (isagogics) many were under slavery. This is an institution that God does not condemn in the Bible and Paul was actually telling Slaves to submit to the Full authority of their masters. This would avoid God’s name being blasphemed as well as Christian teachings from being blasphemed.
God desires all Christians to submit to the authority that God has placed over them. (Rom 13:1,3-4,6, 1 Pet 2:13-14)
However, the Pastor Teacher is an authority over the congregation and he possesses the authority to give commands to the church, which the congregation is to submit to. 1st Timothy 1:19, 1st Timothy 1:3,18 , 3:14-15, 4:6 , 4:11 , 5:7, 5:21 , 6:2-3 , 6:13-14.
You are to submit to the Pastor Teachers authority and not disrespect the authority God has placed over you.
Being a member of a Church you must [b:dece3ac862][u:dece3ac862]know and recognize [/u:dece3ac862][/b:dece3ac862]a Pastor Teacher with these qualities(listed below) to submit to him. This is not to judge another pastor teacher but to evaluate and find your own. (Acts 20:28, 1Peter 5:1-3)
Pastor Teacher is to operate under rebound and confident faith. 1st Timothy 1:19
Pastor Teacher has an understanding of Mystery Doctrine. 1st Timothy 3:9
Pastor Teacher trains himself with the Word in the ways of God(notice he is not all knowing and can be in error). 1st Timothy 4:7
Pastor Teacher is to be absorbed by the word.
Pastor Teacher is to work hard and be diligent. 1st Timothy 4:10.
Pastor Teacher is to be absorbed with God. 1st Timothy 4:15.
Pastor Teacher is to grow and the congregation is to see that Growth. (notice he may change his viewpoint and doctrine by what God teaches him.) 1st Timothy 4:15
These are really the most important things in searching for Pastor Teacher. You are to evaluate the ministry but never focus on the sins of the Teacher or Judge him for his lack of doctrinal understanding. It is an evaluation for yourself.
Boy! I had to rebuke myself!!
R.B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by:
Truthtesty
()
Date: March 03, 2007 06:37AM
Quote:
Truthtesty stated
Galiban replied
Ok You missed the point. [u:5ce9ea465e]You did exactly as I thought you would[/u:5ce9ea465e], you avoided answering the question and ran off into scripture after scripture.
Truthtesty stated
You answer my question 1st.
Thieme was prejudiced in his viewpoint towards the bible, therefore, God would not reveal to him.
PREDJUDICED EQUALS A SUBJECTIVE VIEWPOINT.
3 a : expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, [b:5ce9ea465e]prejudices,[/b:5ce9ea465e] or interpretations
Thieme was false (within his own teaching) because he was not objective. Thieme was prejudiced his entire life. Thieme taught with prejudiced. Thieme spoke with predjudiced. Thieme believed in being prejudiced. Thieme advocated that christians should be predjudiced. You could say predjudice ran through Thieme's veins thicker than blood. Thieme was subjective his entire life.
I know this is new to you. You smashed other christians for havings feelings when they read the bible. You always thought of Thieme as being objective, but Thieme was subjective. By Thieme's own teaching God would not reveal to Thieme. How does THIEME'S SUBJECTIVITY effect your understanding of the bible? I mean knowing that you were just getting a poorly taught lesson in Greek with none of God's revelation must be infuriating to you. How many hours did you labor?
How does THIEME'S SUBJECTIVITY thus "God's lack of revelation" effect your understanding of the bible?
Truthtesty
Truthtesty stated
Quote
“How do you explain Thieme's lifelong obvious prejudice against other Christian pastors trying to admonish Thieme to the truth of the bible?”
Galiban replied
Quote
I do not have to!
Ok You missed the point. [u:5ce9ea465e]You did exactly as I thought you would[/u:5ce9ea465e], you avoided answering the question and ran off into scripture after scripture.
Truthtesty stated
Quote
Now you can use the same trick Thieme does and avoid a direct answer by claiming you only talk about scripture, but it's not true. Anyone can look back at your recent posts and see that you reply to more than just scripture. Including the one where you said "I(Galiban) will not be replying in this forum or even viewing it again."
You answer my question 1st.
Thieme was prejudiced in his viewpoint towards the bible, therefore, God would not reveal to him.
PREDJUDICED EQUALS A SUBJECTIVE VIEWPOINT.
3 a : expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, [b:5ce9ea465e]prejudices,[/b:5ce9ea465e] or interpretations
Thieme was false (within his own teaching) because he was not objective. Thieme was prejudiced his entire life. Thieme taught with prejudiced. Thieme spoke with predjudiced. Thieme believed in being prejudiced. Thieme advocated that christians should be predjudiced. You could say predjudice ran through Thieme's veins thicker than blood. Thieme was subjective his entire life.
I know this is new to you. You smashed other christians for havings feelings when they read the bible. You always thought of Thieme as being objective, but Thieme was subjective. By Thieme's own teaching God would not reveal to Thieme. How does THIEME'S SUBJECTIVITY effect your understanding of the bible? I mean knowing that you were just getting a poorly taught lesson in Greek with none of God's revelation must be infuriating to you. How many hours did you labor?
How does THIEME'S SUBJECTIVITY thus "God's lack of revelation" effect your understanding of the bible?
Truthtesty
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