Truthtesty, to respond to Posted: 03-01-2007 07:40 PM
First you must, I mean must, understand I am not defending Thieme. I am defending the Doctrines (Scriptures) that Dr. Wall asserted (and SpiritualLiberty and HappyandFree) were the basis of placing Thieme and his teachings in the realm of a cult. After all that is why we are here.
I have not studied Thieme’s tapes or in his church. (I have studied his written work.) He is not my assigned pastor teacher. (Acts 20:28, 1Peter 5:1-3) But I do know the doctrines, which have been under attack here. They are accurate. This means that the teachings that Thieme has put forth are accurate. Neither I, nor Thieme need to defend his character or sins. (Isaiah 54:17b) God will vindicate him. However, the false doctrines will be refuted by Truth. (Isaiah 54:17a)
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“How do you explain Thieme's lifelong obvious prejudice against other Christian pastors trying to admonish Thieme to the truth of the bible?”
I do not have to!
A pastor instructs his assigned congregation. Not other pastors. Give me one scripture to refute this. They should [b:59697bbd3b]not[/b:59697bbd3b] spend their lives admonishing Thieme. Perhaps you (who are ill eguiped spiritually) should not either.....
1st Timothy 1:3,18 , 3:14-15, 4:6 , 4:11 , 5:21 , 6:2-3 , 6:13-14.
They should be expending every bit of effort instructing their assigned flock.
Acts 20:28, 1Peter 5:1-3. 1st Timothy 4:11, 1st Timothy 1:3,18 , 3:14-15, 4:6 , 4:11 , 5:21 , 6:2-3 , 6:13-14. 1st Timothy 5:7, 1st Timothy 4:15, 1st Timothy 3:14-15, 1st Timothy 4:1-10. I could go on……
It is sufficient to say “give me scriptures that state another pastor teacher should admonish anyone but his own flock.”
A pastor teacher should protect his assigned flock from false teachings, not the sheep assigned to others….1st Timothy 4:1-10, 1st Timothy 6:20
Notice in 1st Timothy 6:21 some have fallen from the faith by professing false doctrines. Is Timothy instructed to admonish them?
God holds the Pastor Teacher accountable. Not the Christian community, other Pastor Teachers, even his own flock. Give me scriptures to refute this. 1st Timothy 5:21 1st Timothy 1:8 Notice who he is charged in front of in 5:21?
The congregation should submit to his teachings as a slave to his master. They are to give a Pastor Teacher full respect. This verse states that if the congregation respects the Pastor Teacher they will not incidentally blaspheme his doctrine. The congregation that disrespects a Pastor Teacher is not worthy to judge a doctrinal viewpoint whether it be right or wrong…… 1st Timothy 6:1
We are to learn Theology from our church, not a seminary. Show me scriptures that shows a Pastor Teacher is to study at a college or seminary. I am not stating that learning doctrine from any source is a bad thing, only that learning or being a part of a seminary does not give you a more weighted opinion. Secondly, it is not the desire of God that you learn in a seminary, rather that you learn as a part of a Church under your Pastor Teacher.
Notice, the Pastor Teacher is to choose the Elders of the church, this includes future Pastor Teachers. Show me scriptures to refute this. 1st Timothy 3:1-13.
He is instructed to evaluate the Elders lifestyles when choosing. 1st Timothy 3:1-13
He is required to test the future leaders of the Church. 1st Timothy 3:10
He is required to make certain the understand sound doctrine. 1st Timothy 3:9.
In all of this no seminary, no admonishing inaccurate pastors, no instruction of other pastors. In fact all pastors are warned to be accurate in their teachings or they will pull their congregations down with them. That is why a pastor answers to God alone.
1st Timothy 4:14-16. It is up to the congregation to know who is their assigned Pastor Teacher. If you wish those scriptures let me know.
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“Now you can use the same trick Thieme does and avoid a direct answer by claiming you only talk about scripture, but it's not true. Anyone can look back at your recent posts and see that you reply to more than just scripture. Including the one where you said "I (Galiban) will not be replying in this forum or even viewing it again."”
I won’t discuss [b:59697bbd3b][u:59697bbd3b]with you [/u:59697bbd3b][/b:59697bbd3b]things you post [u:59697bbd3b][b:59697bbd3b]without scripture.[/b:59697bbd3b][/u:59697bbd3b] Look at the wealth of information I have provided, which you will promptly ignore and reject. Your viewpoint is without God backing it up. (Before you point this out, the doctrine above is for the teaching that a lot of Pastors hold to. They, the Seminary Scholars, are to inform congregations, in a cult, of the truth. Even if they inaccurately perceive a cult where there is none.) All above refutes this teaching, that they are obligated to inform other congregations of the inaccuracies of a pastor teacher.
2 Timothy 2:23, Titus 3:9. God states in these verses to avoid foolish arguments and quarrels. That is what you do. However, in all of my Posts I take a stand for Key Doctrines and assert that Thieme’s doctrines are backed up by scripture.
Ultimately, no congregation member should in anyway disrespect his Pastor Teacher or his teachings for the inadvertent mistake that they Blaspheme the teachings of God. 1st Timothy 6:1-2
I am not asserting that all of Dr. Wall’s information is wrong or that he is undeserving of the respect his office holds.(That is why I asked you to pick those teachings you felt strongest, which you have failed to do.) I am asserting that his teachings show bias (which I indicated) and do not prove out when taken in with Divine viewpoint (that is a scriptural understanding, epignossis if you will). I am in no way admonishing the man. I am pointing out doctrinal viewpoint to address his work. I did not bash the man only the critical evaluation he put forth. That allows me to know that He is not my assigned Pastor Teacher. Though he may have people assigned to him.
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“For those reading I pose the question, Wouldn't it be accurate and honest to say "do not be predjudiced for Thieme's view when you read the bible for yourselves."”
It is better stated, “You are unbiased if you read the bible with diligent study, filling of the Spirit, after rebounding, and using divine viewpoint God has given you.”
“Clearly the interpretation is not restricted to just the "bold" reference selection.”
Ya missed this entirely. I guessed you would state that. Notice you did not show me why I was wrong to choose the translations I did. Only that I was wrong. Same as HappyandFree. Show me where I am wrong, then I shall concede. Don’t just say I am wrong. I chose the word “bold” due to the context, isagogics, and surrounding scriptures.
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“Republicans and Democrats do on occasion agree.”
This was an [b:59697bbd3b]analogy[/b:59697bbd3b] from divine viewpoint. I will explain.
God does not agree on occasion with the devil. He is Truth and can have nothing to do with the sin nature that the Devil possess’s. He has one system and one understanding. He does not compromise as a politician. If a politician agrees with another Politician it is for mutual profit. That is not how God works. I will let you discover those scriptures for yourself.
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“Galiban stated
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And Yes the forward from the President of the Dallas Theological Seminary is biased. If you cannot see that I pity you.
Galiban does not try to prove this, he just makes an unfounded accusation that the foreward is biased. This accusation is from Galiban, a person who considers "A rational arguement is pointless". Also, I could care less about your pity. Your pity does not replace factual evidence.”
I have addressed this in in the previous posts. Please reread. You will notice that if a Man reads the work’s of Dr. Wall and then gives a forward that states “This work is unbiased” when that work he just read is clearly biased….then by default that man is attempting to deceive you or did not actually read the work. In either case, he must then possess a bias towards Thieme that is negative.
Ultimately you did not counter point my doctrines (scriptures) only my “accusations of proponents that are anti-Theme”. There was so much information in those posts. Are you by default stipulating their accuracy?
Secondly, if I state something it should be from Divine viewpoint. When I do state something that is not from divine viewpoint, God does and will correct me. As in that Previous post, where I did express:
"I(Galiban) will not be replying in this forum or even viewing it again."
Last Time, gimme scripture or I will stop responding. Show me that Thieme is from a cult because his teachings are against the Word of God. None have done that. In fact that was your call, you asked for people to do what I did. To check out Dr. Wall’s teachings on the matter, I have done this. You have not shown my evaluation to be wrong, only that you say that it is wrong. Using logic will not convince me. Only scripture.
Again, pick out the Key Doctrinal topics that Make Thieme a cult leader, which you have as yet, failed to do. Post those Doctrines that you assert are wrong and place him in heresy. I will address them directly. No more of the “chatter”.
Please do so in future posts. Stop the mud “slinging”.