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Truthtesty
So pinochio's nose grows longer. Again, either show me 1 exact example of "scar tissue" or show me how your trying to turn Thieme's words inside out.
You tried to test this forum with Thieme's loaded language and you have failed. Lol
Thanks again for the laugh.
Have a nice day,
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sistersoap
Hey prebound,
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I believe you when you say you are not defending Thieme. Failing to use QUOTATION MARKS to suit Testy is not a reliable BS meter. Just because you try to use moderate language and do not respond to attacks with like attacks in return does not mean you are an 'undercover" Thieme follower. You would not be in the church you are in now if you had not left thieme's teachings.
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prebound
I'm not playing the victim here, but you make far too many assumptions about complete strangers.
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prebound
... I have never considered Berachah proper (or its "clones") to be cults, but I don't believe this thread is in the wrong place (Destructive Churches).
prebound
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prebound
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Nevertheless it was what I was familiar with. My parents were members of a "clone" church for many years. They have left what they now consider to be a cult. I have never considered Berachah proper (or its "clones") to be cults, but I don't believe this thread is in the wrong place (Destructive Churches).
Now let's take another crack at the "scar tissue" issue. Please note my use of the reassuring quotation marks. I'm sure we would be fast friends by now, if I had only remembered to use them more consistently in the previous post. ;)
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I'm not objecting to the use of the term "scar tissue" as a metaphor for a damaged soul. But that doesn't mean I was worshiping Pastor Thieme's jargon or following his lead. Rather, I was trying to say that many of the negative things associated with his ministry were CAUSING much of the very "scar tissue" that he was supposedly warning his congregation against. It's also called irony.
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Nevertheless, as long as your having fun, I will attempt to continue our dialogue. Hope springs eternal.
prebound
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To the Forum:
Thieme quote: "The spiritual gift of pastor-teacher must be exercised with authority (Tit. 2:15); therefore, monologue, not dialogue is the order of teaching" "Grace Apparatus for Perception" by RB Thieme jr [www.mustseethisone.com]
Understanding God's Government By Paul W. Syltie quote: "All Authority Inserted into Titus 2:15: The KJV reads: "These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee". In English, it sounds like Paul is telling Titus that he has "all authority" over the brethren-as a king or dictator might. The Greek words for "all authority" are pas and epitage. The latter word is used five other times in the New Testament (Rom 16:26, 1 Cor 7:6.24; 2Cor 8:8, 1Tim1:1, Tit1:3). In all these cases epitage is translated "commandement" and refers to a commandement of the Eternal. The incorrect use of "authority" makes it sound like Titus was the rebuking authority, not the Eternal commandments. Also, the Greek pas is translated "every" 117 out of 1.243 times. When pas is used with a word that trepresents a "class of items", pas refers to "every itme in the class." This verse would be much more consistently translated if it said "rebuke with every commandment". Titus was correct the brethren using every commandement of the Father and Christ. [books.google.com]
The Syltie quote is consistent with scripture and the authority hierarchy set forth by Jesus.
Epitage [bible.crosswalk.com]
Dr. Wall: [www.texaswalls.org]
Basic view. First, he has an unbalanced view of spiritual authority. Pastoral or elder leadership authority extends to the overseeing of the operation of church ministries, the maintenance of sound teaching in the local church and the protection of the believers' souls from false doctrine (I Pet. 5:2; Acts 20:28, 29; Heb. 13:17). It clearly involves leadership by example, not by lording over or "bullying" the flock (I Pet. 5:3; Heb. 13:7). Thieme has added to these clear biblical directions. He claims that he must be the final source of doctrine for all in his flock, and that the individual believer cannot study Scripture for himself. Not only does the Scripture not teach such a view of doctrinal learning, but it teaches the opposite. Spiritual growth, Paul says in Ephesians 4, involves two major ingredients that are contrary to the Thiemite doctrine: first, the gift of pastor-teacher is an equipping gift (verse 12, katartismon) designed to prepare all believers (the saints) for doing the job of ministering and edifying; second, maturing takes place as all the members of the body minister the truth of God to one another in love (verses 15, 16), not just one select, gifted person.
Second, he confuses faith in biblical truth with a faith in a particular teacher (i.e. one's right pastor). At no time does Scripture exhort the believer to single out one particular teacher as his final doctrinal authority. On the contrary, there is precedence for diversity of teachers. At Antioch the thriving, missionary church was ministered to by five prophets and teachers (Acts 13: 1). Ephesus had both the personal and epistolary ministries of both Paul and John, and also had the ministry of Apollos and of the elders of Ephesus (Acts 18:24-28; 20:17-35). In 3 John, the apostle condemns Diotrophes for attempting to lord it over the flock, forcing division between his followers and other teachers in the body of Christ. Thieme's right pastor doctrine could very well be called the "Diotrophes doctrine."
I said once I'll say it again " YOU QUESTION THE PERFECT AUTHORITY OF JESUS, IF YOU DO NOT QUESTION THE CORRUPT AUTHORITY OF THIEME!
"
[forum.culteducation.com]
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To the Forum:
Dr. Lifton on Thought Reform (Harvard University)
MILIEU CONTROL
The most basic feature is the control of human communication within an environment If the control is extremely intense, it becomes internalized control -- an attempt to manage an individual's inner communication
Control over all a person sees, hears, reads, writes (information control) creates conflicts in respect to individual autonomy
Groups express this in several ways: Group process, isolation from other people, psychological pressure, geographical distance or unavailable transportation, sometimes physical pressure
Often a sequence of events, such as seminars, lectures, group encounters, which become increasingly intense and increasingly isolated, making it extremely difficult-- both physically and psychologically--for one to leave
Sets up a sense of antagonism with the outside world; it's "us against them"
Closely connected to the process of individual change (of personality)
[www.ex-cult.org]
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Truthtesty: Thieme's "TRIPLE COMPOUND DISCIPLINE" is FALSE because Thieme is referring to Matthew 7:2 "For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." This is a KINGDOM LAW not a GRACE OR CHURCH AGE LAW.
This is one of the false fear tactics of the Thieme temple. Cults do not like to be exposed it is no wonder Thieme says "Every believer should develop a conscious habit of keeping his mouth shut..." Christian Suffering by R. B. Thieme jr.
Lewis Sperry Chafer Vol. 4, Page 223 (8) Warning Against Judgment of Others. This kingdom law is unyielding (Matt. 7:1–6): “Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.” One under grace has passed beyond all judgment, by virtue of his acceptance in Christ who died for him (John 5:24). He may be chastened by his Father, which is a form of judgment (1 Cor. 11:27–32); but such judgment is never said to be the return of his sin back upon his own head, as is prescribed in this portion of the kingdom teaching.
But still? What am I doing? One 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God." (not Thieme) Two 1 Timothy 5:19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses. 20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear. 21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.
The Thieme cult definitely tried to squeeze Matthew 7:2 into the "Age of Grace" or "Church Age", but that's a "Kingdom" Law.
This is another proof for "test all things" and performing your own personal study.
Truthtesty
Matthew 7:2 "For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." This is a KINGDOM LAW not a GRACE OR CHURCH AGE LAW.
Thieme quote: We must approach the Word of God with utmost care. Never are we to indiscriminately lift a phrase here and a verse there and apply them to suit our fancy. We must always analyze the Scripture in the light of certain principles of interpretation The Integrity of God by RB Thieme jr.
Truthtesty: IT DOES NOT APPLY TO THE CHURCH AGE BELIEVER OF THIS CHURCH AGE DISPENSATION.
Lewis Sperry Chafer Vol. 4, Page 223 (8) Warning Against Judgment of Others. This kingdom law is unyielding (Matt. 7:1–6): “Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.” One under grace has passed beyond all judgment, by virtue of his acceptance in Christ who died for him (John 5:24). He may be chastened by his Father, which is a form of judgment (1 Cor. 11:27–32); but such judgment is never said to be the return of his sin back upon his own head, as is prescribed in this portion of the kingdom teaching.
THIEME KNEW THAT.
Thieme quote: Dispensational Theology holds the key to understanding the Scriptures in their proper perspective. Dispensationalism clarifies the difference between Israel and the Church and defines the Christian’s modus operandi and his relationships. Anti-Semitism by R.B. Thieme, Jr.
THIEME KNEW THAT!
Lewis Sperry Chafer Vol. 4, Page 223 (8) Warning Against Judgment of Others. This kingdom law is unyielding (Matt. 7:1–6): “Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.” One under grace has passed beyond all judgment, by virtue of his acceptance in Christ who died for him (John 5:24). He may be chastened by his Father, which is a form of judgment (1 Cor. 11:27–32); but such judgment is never said to be the return of his sin back upon his own head, as is prescribed in this portion of the kingdom teaching.
THEREFORE IT IS A DELIBERATE, HYPOCRITICAL, AND INTENTIONAL FALSIFICATION OF THE SCRIPTURE FOR THIEME'S CULT.
Thieme started using his false teaching on "Triple Compound Discipline" at least as of the early 1970's. As far as I know Thieme never recanted his false teaching on "Triple Compound Discipline". And as we all can clearly see pss is still using it.
This is not an improvement on Dr. Chafer's categorical teachings of dispensational Systematic Theology. This is a retardation from Dr. Chafer. Thieme is intentionally and unecessarily intimidating unwitting christians, through the use of intentional misinterpretations. Thieme is using and inducing unnecessary fear into unwitting chrisitans, through the use of intentional misinterpretations. Thereby misrepresenting the Word of God and handling the Word of God deceitfully.
Thieme cult doctrine.
As we have seen before Thieme's teachings produce unecessary repression of guilt in unwitting christians.
Dr. Wall Unless the full ramifications of true agreement about (or acknowledgement of) sins are taught, there can be practical abuses of the doctrine of confession. Without these clarifications the teaching of confession and forgiveness can possible produce in the carnal mind a "license mentality."15 In some cases it can even result in a rationalization of the continuing existence of sin16 and the repression of guilt, and this can produce emotional problems and even schizophrenia. The author has personally counseled people with such problems stemming from their abuse of Thieme's teaching on confession and fellowship. [www.texaswalls.org]
Cults use fear and guilt to program their members to believe that their lives are worthless outside of the group. It is hard to imagine the pain these buried psychic land mines cause when the person manages to leave. Cult experiences and indoctrination have to be worked through during an essential soul-searching recovery period, which usually takes months and sometimes years. by Steven Hassan, M.Ed., L.M.H.C., N.C.C.
Hassan authored "Combatting Cult Mind Control" and "Releasing The Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves"
[www.icsahome.com]
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