This is my first time posting in this thread, and I want to start by saying how much I appreciate the honesty and openness with which our varied experiences with the 'doctrinal movement' are received here. A friend of mine found this site about two years ago, and I have been lurking, reading, thinking... checking in from time to time since then.

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for having the guts to simply put it out there and let the world judge for itself the phenomenal damage which has been done the Col's Clones.

It's late, and I'll get around to telling my story here soon. Suffice it to say, I have about 35 years of experience in and around what Thiemites, 'tapers,' and 'doctrinal believers' eagerly and wholeheartedly call the 'doctrinal movement'-- which is a horrendous misnomer in itself. I can speak from much eyewitness experience and, as I'm certain many of you can, some measure of authority. Those random posters who 'taped' for 5, 10 or 20 years and like to drop in defending Thieme or his various clones have, honestly, no idea what results in marriages, families, and individual hearts, souls, and minds from being under one of these ministries. The 'fear-based' faith {which is no faith at all}, the constant guilt {not to mention shameful manipulation for deviating from the 'norm and standard' or Heaven forbid deciding to leave the cult-like atmosphere behind}, the grace-based legalism {how's that for another oxymoron? I'm on a roll}, the obessions with details that won't matter when weighed out in Eternity, the formulaic approach to God, the distance and isolation from others {remember the erroneous 'doctrine of privacy'... where exactly is that in Scripture? Yeah, what about all those 'one another's' we're commanded to obey: little hard to do when there are no 'others'}, the constant derision of all who differ spiritually in any way, shape, or form {Baptists, Fundies, Evangelicals, Charismatics, Pentecostals, etc., etc}, not mention the banishment of emotion. This last point may not have been the aim, the goal, but emotion was so derided and downgraded that it almost became a form of evil.

My question to 'doctrinal believers' is: If emotions are so bad, so wrong, why does everybody except sociopaths have them? Emotion resides in the very centre of the soul, the heart to be precise, and the soul was created by Jesus Christ. Are you telling me He made a mistake, He somehow blew it? I don't think so.

Again, to those who never sat under the tyranny of men who tried to clone Berachah in their churches{Good Lord, why?} or 'channel' Thieme in their pulpits, you have no idea how much damage has been done. A little humility in speaking about something you have no experiential awareness of might be in order. I don't know one truly healthy {and thus holy} family that centered its life and spirituality around 'getting doctrine.' Not one. That speaks volumes in my book. Divorces were rampant through the years in many doctrinal churches, no matter how many 'marriage principles' were taught because, hey, it's just another sin Christ died for. Just confess it and move on. Good luck in recovering from that shotgun blast to the soul by rebounding it and moving on. Not going to happen.

So, thank you once again for providing this forum. I have read nearly every post in here at some time or another and am deeply grateful, not only for the added insight but that our unerringly faithful Father has set so many of us free to taste and see that He is better, and BIGGER, than we could have ever imagined!

F&L,

I had a further dig through the Hemet pastor's website and came across three documents.
Each seems to be addressing one point of common teaching found within the doctrinal movement.

[fullcontactchristianity.org]

1. The pastors use of Greek and Hebrew in class
2. Rebound and teaching the scriptures
3. Emotions and objectivity

More reading I know, but hopefully you won't be burnt out just yet!

[www.alternet.org]

Seems to have been a disturbed man prior to entering the doctrinal environment.

My God, I had no idea of the connection.

You're right, most definitely disturbed before. Yet I wonder, as you yourself have experienced, how the oppressive environment of a doctrinal church, doctrine of privacy, emotions put on perpetual hold, exacerbated this man's sense of isolation and alienation, not merely from women but ultimately from reality. It has the effect of being an entirely insular environment and for a man like that, probably not much going on socially outside the dysfunctional group.

It's sad and it's sick all at the same time.

Quote
orangeperuviscacha
F&L,

I had a further dig through the Hemet pastor's website and came across three documents.
Each seems to be addressing one point of common teaching found within the doctrinal movement.

[fullcontactchristianity.org]

1. The pastors use of Greek and Hebrew in class
2. Rebound and teaching the scriptures
3. Emotions and objectivity

More reading I know, but hopefully you won't be burnt out just yet!

I'm not... yet anyway. Read the first paper just a moment ago, and couldn't agree more.

Clicked on one of the links for fullcontactchristianity last week, and I love where this man's head is at. Seems like a highly intelligent man with a heart to see former Thiemites, 'doctrinaires,' deprogram, unload the loaded language and let the Spirit of God cleanse their souls of some incredible foolishness, then return to a passionate love for the Person of Jesus, not the principle about Him. A hearty Amen! for that.

To the Forum:
[www.alternet.org]

This post has a sick nature, but should serve as a truthful warning of the sick infectious insanity of Thieme's system. I knew it was only a matter of time before the cancerous psychoses of Thieme's teachings would drive someone not just over the edge mentally(happens all the time), but that in addition they would "act out" their loss of sanity with physical violence onto innocent people. Truly sad. It is one reason why this and other anti-Thieme sites exists. I have seen thiemites act violently towards family members (under their "ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY" and absolute control therefore they feel "entitled" to corrupt and abuse) because of their irritated state of not being able to handle reality, due to trying to follow Thieme's cult teachings. However, this is the 1st fullblown psycotic episode I have heard of where innocent people were shot down in cold blood. These women were not Muslims or Communists(as Thieme taught to murder in the heart. However, they may have been liberals which Thieme also taught to murder in the heart), they were just innocent women and Sodini was incapable of relating to them or relating logically or rationally to reality. Sodini was just a sick psycho thiemite who followed Thieme's incompetent loss of reality to the letter.

I knew that Thieme's cult carried the violent psychotic potential of the Manson cult. I knew it was just a matter of time.

My condolences to the families and to the victims.

Hopefully this and other anti-Thieme sites can help prevent this sort thing from happening.

Truthtesty



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2009 12:24AM by Truthtesty.

Rather a long bow to draw that the Thieme cult carries "the violent psychotic potential of the Manson cult". Any organisation could be said to have some level of psychotic potential. It is dependent upon the individuals involved with so many personal and environmental factors that would need to be considered. That the perpetrator of such an heinous crime had read some of Thieme's material is irrelevant unless one peruses all that the individual has read. Had he read the morning paper, had he read War and Peace, had he read his morning Navigator's devotional.

Furthermore your comment that "Sodini was just a sick psycho thiemite who followed Thieme's incompetent loss of reality to the letter" begs the question. Do you know that this man was sick, do you know that he was a psycho, do you know he was a thiemite and do you know if he was following "thieme's incompetent loss of reality"? I am not defending Sodini, nor finding excuses for his actions (all of which I heartily condemn) but find your logic of linking to thieme alone without oher causes illogical. My reading of this site gives me the impression that the discussion is supposed to centre on Thieme's teachings and influences that one can factually demonstrate and not utilise fatuous links.

The teachings of Thieme certainly polarise sections of the church. Some through faulty concepts of Thieme, some through misunderstanding of his concepts, some through devotees not thinking through or studying the concepts who mindlessly mimic attitudes. So let the forum have rationale discussion and not emotive arguments that stretch beyond the factual arguments.

To zeebrook:

Wow with your logic of let's not jump to conclusions, I don't think you would survive on a battlefield very long. If one were to use your logic of let's not junp to conclusions when a bullet wizzed passed you could say " well I am just not sure if that was an American bullet or an enemy bullet so let's just keep walking." You want to risk peoples lives then that is up to you. I say people need to be forewarned of the danger ahead of time. I say "duck and low crawl" til we gather more evidence. I don't have all the info YET but here's what I have read [www.google.com] I tell you what zeebrook since you want to play the devils advocate you prove that Zodinis what 12 or 13 years at Tetalestai had nothing whatsoever to do with Zodinis violent psycotic behavioir or that he had just finished reading "integrity of God" by) RBThieme jr had nothing to do with his loss of reality. You can't but I can tell you that I was forced into this psycotic environment and I HAVE SEEN this psycotic violent tendency of behaviour exhibited by thiemites many many times before UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL and people nearly died. And one reason was because of Thieme's irrational violent lack of respect for humanity. Thiemites do lose their grip on reality - I have seen it many time before and stated cases on this very website.

But you are being the hypocrite and you are defending Thieme. You play the devils advocate with me and say that I am emotive, but I have LOGICALLY seen this behaviour before. I do not know your experience with Thieme or thiemites BUT you certainly did not question orangeperuviscacha's emotive or logic when orange said "Seems to have been a disturbed man prior to entering the doctrinal environment. " Where did orange get this information? Why don't you question oranges statement? Yet you only question me. Yet? You imply a nuetral position but your not being nuetral(logically unbiased) otherwise you would have said orange was being emotive without proof of any links not proving a Thieme connection to sodinis violence and proving an alternative connection to some other alternative object which caused this.

One thing is for sure we can't ask Zodini now.

It is not an emotive subjective accusation when I have witnessed it UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL, but sure let's get more information. I am all for it!

Truthtesty



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/11/2009 11:11AM by Truthtesty.

TT,

I do believe that some of Thieme's ideas could feed an individual who possessed concerning behaviour/views and contribute to a tipping point.
Yes, the only picture I have of his background is from reading some old posts of his.

When I first read of the shootings, I remembered an account from some years ago in my notes in which another group person murdered his wife then killed himself.
He had previously discussed the subject of killing and forgiveness with a group member.

orange,

I'd be glad to read any and all information. From the posts I have seen he wasn't worried about going to hell for being a mass murderer. Gee where did he get the idea he could murder all he wanted to and still go to heaven?

Truthtesty